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Whoa CALM down. No one is throwing hissy fits or forcing anyone to do anything.
You go write whatever you want, whenever you want, and I guarantee no one from this forum will bother you about it.
Lol, finaly I can start my fan fiction hassle free :-D. But I do recall "wow another white male lead" or something similar and people did get pissed about it. It annoys the hell out of me that somehow it's a problem for a white country to have mostly white leads.
Let me make something clear.
If I seem consistently rude, it's because I don't like you.
That is very mature of you.
Yeah, and you know which market is broader than the "straight white male demographic"?
The everybody market.
And since the everybody market is diverse in ethnicity, gender and sexuality (surprise surprise), it's not a stretch to suggest that the best way to appeal to it is by reflecting that diversity and making those people feel included.
Just because some marketing doesn't touch on certain groups does not mean it's solely hitting the "straight white male demographic." That's a bit of a close-minded assumption, or more like, putting your fingers in your ears and refusing to listen. Which, again, very mature.
I don't understand this attitude like white male developers or a white male audience will inherently be repelled or alienated if the media they're working with isn't also white males. Why is there this expectation that the majority hates sharing their toys and is automatically put off when they see someone of a different race or gender in advertisement? As a white male, myself, I have to say, this isn't how I feel at all. White males can also recognize that they've been disproportionately represented and find it refreshing to see someone else in the spotlight, for once. It's not as if anyone is saying that a white male should never again be allowed to be a video game protag.
Shep didn't look white to me and I didn't care at all.
Yeah, and you know which market is broader than the "straight white male demographic"?
The everybody market.
And since the everybody market is diverse in ethnicity, gender and sexuality (surprise surprise), it's not a stretch to suggest that the best way to appeal to it is by reflecting that diversity and making those people feel included.
Which would be appealed to if demographics and financial reports indicated they'd be worth marketing as the main character. Marketing don't have an oppression agenda, they're trying to make the biggest return on their investment and will show their audience the thing which the greater market can relate to.
If the majority of people purchasing the game was to be located in Africa or Asia, we'd most likely have a very different marketing tactic. Look at Japanese advertisements for games in their countries, they always feature Japanese people because that's what the market there relates to.
Often times an entirely new marketing team is hired for the American release where you've got more of a focus on gameplay or American actors to portray because marketing is profit-driven.
Just because some marketing doesn't touch on certain groups does not mean it's solely hitting the "straight white male demographic." That's a bit of a close-minded assumption, or more like, putting your fingers in your ears and refusing to listen. Which, again, very mature.
I know very well that products marketed purely to straight white males still manage to snare individuals from other markets.
That's primarily because, for the past century or so, alternatives have been thin on the ground, if not totally non-existent.
You know how many options I have if I want to see an action movie with a gay protagonist?
Zero. Zero options.
Ah ah ah ah ah!
I know very well that products marketed purely to straight white males still manage to snare individuals from other markets.
That's primarily because, for the past century or so, alternatives have been thin on the ground, if not totally non-existent.
You know how many options I have if I want to see an action movie with a gay protagonist?
Zero. Zero options.
Ah ah ah ah ah!
Perhaps you should change your generalization to "straight protagonist" then.
Lol, finaly I can start my fan fiction hassle free :-D. But I do recall "wow another white male lead" or something similar and people did get pissed about it. It annoys the hell out of me that somehow it's a problem for a white country to have mostly white leads.
I do see what you mean. I feel like that sometimes when people complain about (and in Tumblr's case HARASS) white women.
I don't think people here are trying to push for all white males from marketing being removed. Just for more of a variety that matches North America's racial diversity better than it is currently.
I just googled a quick statistic, and it looks like the US is made up of roughly 70% white people. The US also consists of 51% women. So, I think it'd be a far better reflection of reality for Dragon Age marketing to feature the female protag 50% of the time, male the other 50%, and of those 30% can be non-whites. If you get what I mean.
However obviously it gets more complicated when (and if we even want to) add in percentages of female versus male gamers into the equation... And percentages of non-white people in there as well, which I don't think have been recorded??
After all of these discussions, for all we know, maybe 80% of all gamers could be Hispanic! In which case forget everything I said and start marketing primarily to them! Problem is we don't have the stats!
Unless there's a massive shift in demographics, this will change at a glacial pace. Maybe never at all. Canada is approximately 86% white, and the United States is approximately 72% white. Advertising to the late teen-late to twenties (mature game after all in the US) white person is quite understandable. What makes this trickier is that that game is only interesting to a specific cohort that enjoys/tolerates medieval European influenced fare. It's a very white/euro-centric genre to begin with. It is not a genre that is particularly popular to the main demographic, let alone the average gaming ethnic minority. The game probably looks like it is "White Straight Male Wizard Simulator 2014" to any casual gamer or outsider.
I have no illusions about how nerdy and niche this game may be. Mass Effect 3's military theme at least could draw in some casual FPS fan, and then smack them with a narrative driven space opera. I hope this game will sell as well as Skyrim did. Perhaps they can tap into the current Game of Thrones craze. Hopefully it can interest a wider audience of like minded under represented individuals with a trailer for the CC suite. Nothing would make me happier as a nerdy RPG fan than there being more RPG fans.
What do you consider glacial pace? Single years or decades? I think we'll see huge changes over a few decades. Huge.
I know very well that products marketed purely to straight white males still manage to snare individuals from other markets.
That's primarily because, for the past century or so, alternatives have been thin on the ground, if not totally non-existent.
You know how many options I have if I want to see an action movie with a gay protagonist?
Zero. Zero options.
Ah ah ah ah ah!
I can think of a few action movies with a happy protagonist.
What do you consider glacial pace? Single years or decades? I think we'll see huge changes over a few decades. Huge.
I'd say even years. I admit I am a very optimistic person.
Perhaps you should change your generalization to "straight protagonist" then.
Pickings for PoC or female protagonists are also slim. Perhaps you should read my entire posts instead of taking one line out of context.
Or maybe you think that thanks to the Hunger Games and After Earth, women and PoC are set for life.
I think another part of the problem with continuing to make more white male protags when there are chances to do otherwise is that it normalizes the white guy as a default and anything that deviates from that default is considered catering to a niche group. I've often seen white guys (real-life ones, not video game ones) say they are unable to identify with protags who aren't white guys like they are. That it's too weird.
Meanwhile, everyone else doesn't seem to have this problem on the same scale as the white guys do since for so long that's all they got. Everyone can relate to the white guy and his struggles against [antagonist]! But black women? Asian men? Deemed hard to relate to and connect with. 
So I think that diversifying media to include other races and genders and sexualities is a good step towards denormalizing white guys as the default setting.
Sorry for my habit of editing so much, I just keep sending my posts and going "**** wait I forgot to mention this"
I wonder if the statistic includes Hispanic who identifies as white.
I think another part of the problem with continuing to make more white male protags when there are chances to do otherwise is that it normalizes the white guy as a default and anything that deviates from that default is considered catering to a niche group. I've often seen white guys (real-life ones, not video game ones) say they are unable to identify with protags who aren't white guys like they are. That it's too weird.
Meanwhile, everyone else doesn't seem to have this problem on the same scale as the white guys do since for so long that's all they got. Everyone can relate to the white guy and his struggles against [antagonist]! But black women? Asian men? Deemed hard to relate to and connect with.
Oh man I completely agree with you, and I have (until recently) suffered from this greatly. As a woman, I've always related to white males way more than my own friggin' gender because of the world I've grown up in.
The issue with Nick Fury is that the movie was made by white people who see it as a novelty. They want to make a statement with it. Like I said, it's "cute". They wouldn't dare to make Superman Asian or Spiderman Black because they know that there would be more backlash since those characters are leading characters, but it's perfectly acceptable for Hollywood to change leading roles of Asian characters into white. Plus, the leading roles in those films you mention are all white. They wouldn't dare to change Captain America to a black guy. I double dare them to do it. Goku is a leading role. It's the intention behind it is what matter. They change it because they perceive Asians as undesirable. They keep other characters Asian because those roles aren't as important. That's how "cute" I find the casting is. If they want to change Goku to a white person because of some other reasons beside subtle racism then I wouldn't mind at all. The change in casting roles that motivate by anything other than racism should be okay with me, to be honest.
Not trying to be a jerk, and this isn’t about starting an agrument with you, just want to address a few things you said. Nick Fury was black before the movie, his new race started in the comics. And the new Spiderman in the comics is Hispanic. And Halle Berry and Barack Obama get to be all black even though they are only half black so Keanu Reeves should get to be all Asian in a film even though he is only half Asian. And also, The Last Samurai did very well in Japan because unlike the PC obsessed Americans, they understood that Tom wasn’t the last Samurai but Ken Watanabi was. That the film was about understanding others cultures and respecting the past and finding out that race isn’t what really separates or connects us, but our experience and the decisions we make. And one (or two rather since a bit of this also applies to Superman) last thing, even the creator of Goku said Goku isn’t Asian, he is an alien; he isn’t Asian or white, he is not even human. The Manga and Cartoons don’t even take place in Japan but a fictional world - Goku’s name isn’t even Japanese (nor is anyone’s name) but rather Chinese and his whole story is based on Chinese legend, this is why there is a mix of cultures near each other when they travel, like Japanese sumo wrestlers, Indian monks, and American cowboys all in the same country. It reflects Japanese culture more prominently because the writer is Japanese, (funny that, kind of how the protagonist is a game made in a predominantly white country is white) but it is not meant to be Japan and the story is meant to be accessible to all cultures. One of the reason you would not pick a Japanese person to play Goku when the rest of the cast is Asian could easily be to show that he is set apart from the people around him. To me there is a lot more that move did wrong than casting.
Please don't involve us with him.
Decades or generations. Could happen sooner of course, but that would be my conservative estimation.What do you consider glacial pace? Single years or decades? I think we'll see huge changes over a few decades. Huge.
Pickings for PoC or female protagonists are also slim. Perhaps you should read my entire posts instead of taking one line out of context.
Or maybe you think that thanks to the Hunger Games and After Earth, women and PoC are set for life.
I'm inclined to disagree, I've seen a bit of PoC protagonists. As for the latter, I did read it completely. Perhaps you should apply your own advice to yourself and read mine more properly where I stated "straight protagonist" as I left out the Male and White part intentionally. So with that, Perhaps you should read my entire posts instead of taking one line out of context.
I think another part of the problem with continuing to make more white male protags when there are chances to do otherwise is that it normalizes the white guy as a default and anything that deviates from that default is considered catering to a niche group. I've often seen white guys (real-life ones, not video game ones) say they are unable to identify with protags who aren't white guys like they are. That it's too weird.
Meanwhile, everyone else doesn't seem to have this problem on the same scale as the white guys do since for so long that's all they got. Everyone can relate to the white guy and his struggles against [antagonist]! But black women? Asian men? Deemed hard to relate to and connect with.
Reminds me of all the crazy people that thought casting Rue in The Hunger Games as a black girl made her death less sad. 
While I don't have the racial statistics for gamers, I'd like to mention that Mass Effect 3 had very few female Shepards (the %, IIRC, was similar to ME2's stats) despite having femShep marketing this go around.
That's excluding the fact that people might play opposite genders but it's an interesting point that only a minority of people would play femShep, an issue which was often thought to be at fault with the marketing focusing primarily on Sheploo, didn't change when marketing decided to focus on it. When the statistics doesn't budge as much as it did with the previous games that had very little marketing on the gender selection, it sends a message.
When you learn that the marketing campaign time and money spent on creating the femShep trailers could've been spent elsewhere to have little to no change in the demographic for the series, they might take down notes and learn it was a mistake. While this is my personal opinion, it's the only logical course of action when this is presented.
To continue throwing your money with little gain would serve no purpose.
Reminds me of all the crazy people that thought casting Rue in The Hunger Games as a black girl made her death less sad.
It made me cry like a baby. ):
And again, during the sequel, when they showed her family.
While I don't have the racial statistics for gamers, I'd like to mention that Mass Effect 3 had very few female Shepards (the %, IIRC, was similar to ME2's stats) despite having femShep marketing this go around.
That's excluding the fact that people might play opposite genders but it's an interesting point that only a minority of people would play femShep, an issue which was often thought to be at fault with the marketing focusing primarily on Sheploo, didn't change when marketing decided to focus on it. When the statistics doesn't budge as much as it did with the previous games that had very little marketing on the gender selection, it sends a message.
When you learn that the marketing campaign time and money spent on creating the femShep trailers could've been spent elsewhere to have little to no change in the demographic for the series, they might take down notes and learn it was a mistake. While this is my personal opinion (as someone who's taken a brief course in marketing and would like to think I know a little bit), it's the only logical course of action when this is presented.
To continue throwing your money with little gain would serve no purpose.
What a coincidence, I also took a semester or two of marketing and statistics units, so I guess I know at least as little as you.
I don't think anyone would be mad or give someone **** over making a character white/black/etc. in a way that made sense, but I believe that they would have every right to be upset if there was no concrete reason to make the protag white for no other reason than "just cause" when you can easily make them PoC and not change the story whatsoever. Why make a white protag and blend into the huge mass of other white protags when you could... not do that?
What a coincidence, I also took a semester or two of marketing and statistics units, so I guess I know at least as little as you.
Doesn't stop the point being made.
I'm inclined to disagree, I've seen a bit of PoC protagonists. As for the latter, I did read it completely. Perhaps you should apply your own advice to yourself and read mine more properly where I stated "straight protagonist" as I left out the Male and White part intentionally. So with that, Perhaps you should read my entire posts instead of taking one line out of context.
If you read the entire thing, then you understand that my focus is not purely on gay people, even though there are some female and black protagonists in media.
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