20 réponses à ce sujet

[Shrayev]

So I've been thinking about why Vivienne, Empress Celene's advisor, would be following around the Inquisitor rather than advising her Empress. Could it be because she was outmaneuvered by a certain Witch of the Wilds?

 

I was perusing the wikia earlier today, and I noticed this bit about Morrigan's involvement DA: I (emphasis added):

 

"Morrigan arrived in Orlais in 9:37 Dragon and insinuated herself into the Imperial Court, where she serves as 'arcane advisor' to Empress Celene, providing a source of magical knowledge untouched by religious dogma long sought after by the empress. However, rumors abound that Morrigan is a sinister influence on the throne, teaching the empress forbidden, dark arts."

 

 

Vivienne's wikia entry describes her as follows:

 

"Vivienne is an Orlesian mage, personal enchater and adviser to the Empress Celene... Vivienne is straight-laced and pro-Circle."

 

 

 

This got me thinking: does the Empress consult both Morrigan and Vivienne on arcane matters, relying on the former for "unorthodox" advice and turning to the latter for more conservative counsel? Or... was Vivienne supplanted by Morrigan as the Empress's advisor?

 

While Celene could certainly have two arcane advisors, Vivienne and Morrigan are polar opposites. Vivienne's staunch advocacy of the Circle naturally comes with a disapproval of apostates, and Morrigan is the exemplar of apostate life. 

 

 

Perhaps the two came into conflict as Morrigan wormed her way into Celene's court, resulting in the expulsion of Vivienne, who the Empress had perhaps come to consider too dogmatic.

 

What're you guys' thoughts?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Vivienne was set to become a First Enchanter, so she probably had to relinquish her role as court adviser.

[Wolfen09]

they can have more than one adviser anyway...  it would make sense to have one well versed in circle politics and circle magic, and one well versed in magics not known to those of the circle...  i could see vivene getting mad when we meet morrigan though

[The Ascendant]

What I want to know is where is my Warden from Origins who went with her through the Eluvian? And where is their son the OGB. I get the feeling he's the house husband while Morrigan is of dealing with the Empress. Can't wait to see them again.
"Why can't I come to court with you and don't even think of doing the 'You missed the first two years of his life spiel again!"
"Technically you did."
"Because you ran off!"
"I gave birth to him do you want to know the pain of giving birth!"
"....."
"Well?"
"Have a nice day at work dear."

[Bond]

I refuse to believe Morrigan big plan was to be advisor at court. She could easily become one in Ferelden, had she stayed till Archdemon was slain.

[Lenimph]

"Morrigan arrived in Orlais in 9:37 Dragon and insinuated herself into the Imperial Court, where she serves as 'arcane advisor' to Empress Celene, providing a source of magical knowledge untouched by religious dogma long sought after by the empress. However, rumors abound that Morrigan is a sinister influence on the throne, teaching the empress forbidden, dark arts."

 

I think that sounds naughty and Celene just likes to surround herself with beautiful women.

[Cylan Cooper]

It's strange that Celene never even made a passing reference to Morrigan in TME when Madame de Fer got mentioned once if she's so important. She would have been a great help with the eluvians.

[Sylvianus]

Franckly, I'm confused, it's not clear. 

[MattH]

I'd love if there was an attack on the empress at a ball we're at and Morrigan bursts in as a huge ass spider. Yes.

[Dean_the_Young]

 

So I've been thinking about why Vivienne, Empress Celene's advisor, would be following around the Inquisitor rather than advising her Empress. Could it be because she was outmaneuvered by a certain Witch of the Wilds?

 

I was perusing the wikia earlier today, and I noticed this bit about Morrigan's involvement DA: I (emphasis added):

 

 

Vivienne's wikia entry describes her as follows:

 

 

This got me thinking: does the Empress consult both Morrigan and Vivienne on arcane matters, relying on the former for "unorthodox" advice and turning to the latter for more conservative counsel? Or... was Vivienne supplanted by Morrigan as the Empress's advisor?

 

While Celene could certainly have two arcane advisors, Vivienne and Morrigan are polar opposites. Vivienne's staunch advocacy of the Circle naturally comes with a disapproval of apostates, and Morrigan is the exemplar of apostate life. 

 

 

Perhaps the two came into conflict as Morrigan wormed her way into Celene's court, resulting in the expulsion of Vivienne, who the Empress had perhaps come to consider too dogmatic.

 

What're you guys' thoughts?

 

 

Pretty much matches my speculation. I suspect Vivienne's angle/intent is to get her way back as Court Enchanter or what not, regardless of which side of the Civil War, more than being an emissionary from Celene.

[Lenimph]

I'd love if there was an attack on the empress at a ball we're at and Morrigan bursts in as a huge ass spider. Yes.

And the spider is still wearing her dress. 

[Gervaise]

Celene is portrayed as being anxious to expand the knowledge available to Orlais.   She was trying to get intelligent commoners (and elves) accepted at the University for this reason.    So it follows that she might be curious to discover what arcane knowledge is available outside the Circles.   Hence her interest in Morrigan.   It may well be that Madame de Fer was not made party to this arrangement.

 

Now that Celene has been deprived of her closest companion and advisor, and the Circles have fallen, it might well follow that she would look to Morrigan far more for support in her battle against Gaspard.     After all she knows that he is not averse to recruiting mages to help his cause so it makes sense that she would wish to avail herself of as many mages as she can.    Vivienne may have wished to distance herself from the politics of the civil war or may purely be unavailable owing to the mage/Templar situation but even if she were not, Celene wouldn't limit herself on that account.

[In Exile]

I refuse to believe Morrigan big plan was to be advisor at court. She could easily become one in Ferelden, had she stayed till Archdemon was slain.

 

Ferelden is the hillbilly backwater of Thedas. 

[rocketmunkey]

Celene, as proficient at The Game as she is, likely has both Vivienne and Morrigan to advise on arcane matters in order to provide balance. Multiple points of view, especially coming from 2 experts of such differing temperaments and loyalties, would be invaluable to Celene as she maneuvers through the political minefield of Orlais. Especially considering what happened when she relied too heavily upon a single advisor (read TME; no spoilers here).

 

Edit: Also, consider Morrigan's disposition at the end of DA:O and Witch Hunt. She is eager to see the world, experience life outside the Wilds and away from Flemeth (like anyone could ever truly get away from Flemeth, but that's a different debate for another topic). It's not surprising she ends up in Orlais. What I'd like to know is - what's her relationship with Leliana like? Do they ever interact?

[mikeymoonshine]

I refuse to believe Morrigan big plan was to be advisor at court. She could easily become one in Ferelden, had she stayed till Archdemon was slain.

 

Yes, I am sure Alistair would have loved to have Morrigan as an adviser, especially if she is carrying his bastard archdemon son. 

[Wolfen09]

Yes, I am sure Alistair would have loved to have Morrigan as an adviser, especially if she is carrying his bastard archdemon son. 

 

and even if it was the warden's son, would allistair really want morrigan poking fun at him and making his life hell for the rest of his life?

[BobZilla84]

I like the idea there maybe some sort of conflict between Morrigan and Vivi when they meet in game.

 

I also am curious about the relationship between Morrigan and The Warden and how it will be handled if The Warden physically appears in game and according to the devs comments/statements its gonna happen why is he not with Morrigan instead of just randomly appearing in the story.

 

I think Morrigan and Leliana would be civil and all but Leliana would inevitably fall in line as a bard her loyalties to the Divine are unshakble as we know and she would not want to draw the ire of Empress so I think she wouldnt trust Morrigan but would have to acknowlege Morrigans position.

[LunarMists]

I like the idea there maybe some sort of conflict between Morrigan and Vivi when they meet in game.

 

I also am curious about the relationship between Morrigan and The Warden and how it will be handled if The Warden physically appears in game and according to the devs comments/statements its gonna happen why is he not with Morrigan instead of just randomly appearing in the story.

 

I think Morrigan and Leliana would be civil and all but Leliana would inevitably fall in line as a bard her loyalties to the Divine are unshakble as we know and she would not want to draw the ire of Empress so I think she wouldnt trust Morrigan but would have to acknowlege Morrigans position.

 

If you remember, at the end of DA2, if you imported and your Warden was alive, Cassandra mentions to Leliana that both the Warden and Hawke have gone missing. Therefore, I don't think that if the Warden went with Morrigan, that he would still be there during the Inquisition. My theory is that there might be a mission where you have to go find both the Warden and Hawke (or just Hawke) and if they had a LI, reunite them.....but that might be stretching it.

[azarhal]

If you remember, at the end of DA2, if you imported and your Warden was alive, Cassandra mentions to Leliana that both the Warden and Hawke have gone missing. Therefore, I don't think that if the Warden went with Morrigan, that he would still be there during the Inquisition. My theory is that there might be a mission where you have to go find both the Warden and Hawke (or just Hawke) and if they had a LI, reunite them.....but that might be stretching it.

 

The bold part do not change regardless of your world state. The "warden" either mean the one from Awakening or the one in DAO.

[LunarMists]

The bold part do not change regardless of your world state. The "warden" either mean the one from Awakening or the one in DAO.

 

Ah. I wasn't aware of this. Thank you. ^^

[Arakiel12409]

it would be interesting to see how Morrigan manages to pass of as an "arcane advisor" who brings knowledge "untouched by religious dogma" in a city, where the Knight-Vigilant and the Seekers of Truth have their headquarters.