107 réponses à ce sujet

[Tchos]

Definitely.  I'd welcome such an elegant ambush!

[Elrith Galadon]

There should be a mod where every kobold in the game is Deekin.

 

Or how about you are Deekin? I'd rather not have to massacre a swarm of Deekins... that'd make me cry.

[Nemo_Studio]

@Tchos

 

I do understand your objection, but this is the sole instance in this mod where the PC is required to have diplomatic skills. All the the other dialogues with skill checks have party chat. I do this rarely and only in the few in-game cutsecenes of this mod to make the situation more dramatic. Not being able to do everything is part of role playing too. That's the point of having skill points, to be able and not able to do certain things.

 

You're not a monster for slaying Myrianne in self-defense, it's perfectly justifiable. But it will carry consequences to the next chapter but it won't translate into a "You didn't do that, so you'll have less content". It will simply change the nature of the relationships with certain NPCs.

 

*Edit*

 

Do you think I should put my Mod on the Old vault? And if so who do I contact for the FTP Address? I can't seem to  Beyondthepale on the Vault network. 

[Tchos]

All the the other dialogues with skill checks have party chat. I do this rarely and only in the few in-game cutsecenes of this mod to make the situation more dramatic.

 

Not being able to do everything is part of role playing too. That's the point of having skill points, to be able and not able to do certain things.
 

Do you think I should put my Mod on the Old vault? And if so who do I contact for the FTP Address? I can't seem to  Beyondthepale on the Vault network. 

 

You're saying that the rest of the party is not there at that time, and so they wouldn't be able to speak up (or wouldn't want to speak up), or that Myrianne demands to speak only to one of the people and silences the rest of them, or something of the sort?  I can see that working for dramatic purposes, and that would indeed fit with RP.

 

I agree that no single character should be able to do everything, but we're talking about a party here, unless the party is split up.  In D&D, party members are expected to be specialised and work together cooperatively so that they can handle a wide variety of situations.

 

I'm sorry about my pedantry here.  I didn't mean for it to go on this long, and this isn't the right venue for it.

 

As for the old Vault, I say you should post your mod everywhere that you can.  If anyone can help with the FTP, it's Rolo Kipp.

[Eguintir Eligard]

After the mummy clearing quest, the guy wants me to go back to talk to the black dragon. When I return to his chamber, there is no door, and the door frames don't line up height wise, so there is no way in that I can see.

 

I would also add that playing this without some kind of rogue is a deathtrap. Yet the kobold is a cleric and I am a barbarian. There really isn't room for having a game full of traps, locks etc, and various other skills with only a pair of characters. It's kind of either or .... bigger party (4) or simpler more linear ways to do things.

 

Personally I never could figure out how you balance a game for 2 characters anyway, because the combination of classes could be so random and completely thwart things.

[Nemo_Studio]

After the mummy clearing quest, the guy wants me to go back to talk to the black dragon. When I return to his chamber, there is no door, and the door frames don't line up height wise, so there is no way in that I can see.

 

I would also add that playing this without some kind of rogue is a deathtrap. Yet the kobold is a cleric and I am a barbarian. There really isn't room for having a game full of traps, locks etc, and various other skills with only a pair of characters. It's kind of either or .... bigger party (4) or simpler more linear ways to do things.

 

Personally I never could figure out how you balance a game for 2 characters anyway, because the combination of classes could be so random and completely thwart things.

 

I'm terribly sorry to read this, I don't know what happened, but I just came back from testing this quest and it worked fine for me. Do you have all the expansions or a more ancient version of NWN2? The door's tag is "do_outtomblib" and you can open it through Lizz debug menu. I hope it helps but I can't tell if it will since I have no problem with this quest on my computer and you seem to experience difficulties I couldn't replicate. Did anyone else had the same problem when playing this quest? The quest in question is "Of Snakes and Wyrms".and can be found inside the jungle's ruins.

 

On the traps matter, couldn't you use a "Find Trap" spell with your cleric? I believe that is a second level spell. This mod has been designed to tie one of of the player's hand in the back and to force him to use unconventional resources. With 3 members party, I find it is too easy to cover everything; with only two, you must come up with creative solutions. This is half the fun in my opinion.

 

I'm currently working on the French translation of this game and I'm also cleaning up most of the English dialogues at the same time. I'm realizing now how much of a rush job it was: I apologize for the typos, errors and horrible syntaxes you may encountered in the conversations of this mod. I will try to rectify this with the release of the bilingual version. To my defense, I was programming, level designing, balancing... well, in short, I was doing multiple things at the same time while writing this game's story in a language I do not totally grasp.

 

I apologize again for all my failings.

[PJ156]

 What failings ? You released a module for people to play for free that you had made in your spare time and wrote it in a language that is not your first one. Companies that make games to sell have whole teams and they still need patching.

 

I see only success !

 

What he said ... 

 

PJ

[Nemo_Studio]

Thanks for your kind words of encouragement.

 

Still, did anyone who did the "Of Snakes and Wyrms" quest experienced the same problem as Eguintir Eligard? I tried it a few time on my computer and nothing went wrong for me.

[Eguintir Eligard]

The writing and language in the module is excellent. I wouldn't say the odd error even indicated it was done by a non english speaker. And they aren't many in my opinion.

 

Basically my problem in the quest is there is no door. There is a door way... but no door to click to go through. As I said, the area tiles are not lined up as I am sure you know, so you can't just walk through, you need the open door to click to transition.

[Eguintir Eligard]

One tile is a staircase which drops to sub normal height, the other side of the door is a regular height floor and ceiling height. When you line up two doorway tiles like this (which you should not do) its unwalkable. A staircase downward with door tile was used here. Both for correctness and for reasons like this it should be fixed.There is no door placeable at all in the toolset even. You can see the other floor through the door but it's halfway up the door frame, can't be crossed, plus you can see a black gaping void below it.

[Eguintir Eligard]

You are right about the cleric spell, that is my own fault for not using my head.

There is also a wizard Knock spell for opening doors, but have no magic user classes so far.

 

One thing I would mention is the resting... I can't seem to do it anywhere. Without cheating, I would have to make a long hike to town to rest.

When I can rest in the wild, it always seems to say you will heal, but not recover spells. Should that not be the opposite, being as spells take a day

to re-learn, but healing wounds 100% in a day seems odd. But thats a judgement for you to call for sure.

 

Most of this game is quite great, but combat balance is something I key in on, as I rarely find a player made campaign that does this well. True, I can cheat

and rest any time, but I prefer to face the challenges of your campaign the proper way . And there are good fights to be had

[Nemo_Studio]

@ Eguintir Eligard

 

About resting, yes that makes very much sense but the only problem is that if you have a cleric, you'd have infinite healing and would make the Inn useless. Maybe I could have a dialogue line on Lizz that automatically allows you to warp back to the inn when you are in the wilderness (And not near any enemy.) and another that warp you back in the wilderness when your in town. It would save you allot of time. Sorry, I didn't thought about that before.

 

Thank you very much for your help. I don't know what happened in the tombs, I've put a door down here which should let you access the dragon's room. I am going to check what could have happened wrong.

 

*edit* I found nothing wrong, so I can only assume that somehow, the door is either misplaced or deleted on different computers because of the stairs down tile. The "sunken ruins" tiles and the "Shadow fortress" tiles are both pain in the ass. I'll use a tile with the door on the same level and I'll create a new instance of the door just in case. I'm very sorry if it spoiled your game experience.

 

Thank you again for your feedback. It helps me greatly.

[Eguintir Eligard]

That's a great idea. I like the idea of resting only in the inn when near town, and I implemented that myself in my Islander Campaign.

 

Something like "Hey let's rest buddy" then being warped to the inn with a dialogue to rent the room, followed by a dialogue to "stay here in town or return to the wild?"

would be right on. I don't think its necessary to warp them right where they stood as that is a bit like a cheat, but simply getting them into the wilderness area start would be very justifiable.

[olnorton]

I've never liked the idea of using resting restrictions to gimp magic uses.
It just means people who like playing magic users won't play your mod, or will play it as a fighter, who with any regenerating item can go through a whole campaign without resting.
Low level wizards & sorcerers are without a doubt the weakest classes in any DnD game. No armour, low HP, no BAB.
Clerics get healing spells, but in return have low BAB, low skill options, relatively low strength & con which makes them poor fighters.
The rules even out the classes.
From a role playing point of view, the idea that a wizard has to rest overnight the remember spells he relies on every day of his adventuring life is ridiculous.

To me it's like you find the handcart is too easy to push, so your answer is to stick half a ton of lead in the front left hand corner of the cart.
The cart is heavier & the handles are now at shoulder height instead of waist height, so you have made it harder to push.
But the front left corner of the cart is now dragging on the ground & the left hand wheel (we'll call the melee fighter wheel)is now digging into the clay. The fighter say's "that's cool, I've got the strength & constitution to push on"
But the other wheel (We'll call the wizard/sorceress wheel) is no longer on the ground, instead being carried & playing no part in moving the cart.
It's all about balance, or lack of it.
Your taking from magic users & giving them nothing to compensate for it.

[kevL]

+1

I just went through circa 6 areas without a noticed restpoint. I'm pretty tolerant and have played a couple other modules that had well-spaced restpoints which i enjoyed. But somewhere around area # 5 & a half i lost it and called up ga_rest() for this one


and yeh was thinking "That'd be loads of delight for a PC wizard ..." -- just give us a little nook, a little cranny somewhere we can lodge ourselves into, because as a game mechanic it can really go south,

[Dann-J]

I don't mind rest restrictions, as long as they make sense. I generally hate the OC's 'five-second squat', but I also don't like the other extreme where you're forced to rest at locations that are few and far between. Any adventurer who doesn't know how to make camp in a wilderness area needs to hang up their sword in shame and retire from adventuring.

 

In my current module I'm using the same exhaustion system I used in Isle of Shrines. I restrict resting to campfires, but dot plenty of them about the place (some of which need to be lit first). Then I impose an exhaustion effect on party members when they haven't rested for 16 +/- CON bonus/penalty hours. That way everyone needs to rest eventually, although high-consititution classes can last for a few more hours (if they can put up with whining wizards complaining about being tired). I also offer two rest options - four hours to recover physically, or eight hours to recover both physically and mentally. Only the latter recharges spells and feats.

 

There will always be situations where non-magic-users will be severely disadvantaged, such as fighting creatures with magical abilities of their own, or facing enemy spellcasters who cast incapacitating spells that require will saves (the greatest threat to fighters and barbarians). Even a few lowly magic missiles can kill a creature with few HP but DR verses physical damage, whereas a low-level melee fighter could whack away all day and barely make a dent.

 

D&D isn't about classes being equal. It's about balancing the strengths and weaknesses of the various classes by having several of them in the party. If you want the advantages of having spellcasters in your party, you have to expect a few disadvantages. The alternative is to have a party full of fighters or barbarians who all get charmed, dazed or confused and picked off at a monster's leisure.

[olnorton]

"If you want the advantages of having spellcasters in your party, you have to expect a few disadvantages."
The point is, spellcasters already have disadvantages.

And why do you need to rest longer to regain your mental ability?
Surely someone who relies on mental aptitude wouldn't find casting a few spells more mentally draining than a fighter in heavy armour & welding a heavy sword and shield would be physically drained after being bashed in a melee.
The idea that you can recover from physical injury (even near death) in half the time it takes a practised spellcaster to get over casting mage armor & grease, just doesn't wash.

[PJ156]

For me resting should only be restricted if it makes sense for the area otherwise, let the role players role play and decide or themselves how to limit rest.

 

I don't think very limited rest adds too much except lots of travel (unless you get your proposed system of jump to the inn right).

 

PJ

[Dann-J]

"If you want the advantages of having spellcasters in your party, you have to expect a few disadvantages."
The point is, spellcasters already have disadvantages.

And why do you need to rest longer to regain your mental ability?
Surely someone who relies on mental aptitude wouldn't find casting a few spells more mentally draining than a fighter in heavy armour & welding a heavy sword and shield would be physically drained after being bashed in a melee.
The idea that you can recover from physical injury (even near death) in half the time it takes a practised spellcaster to get over casting mage armor & grease, just doesn't wash.

 

There are different stages of sleep. Resting lightly will ease your physical aches and pains, but if you don't rest long enough to enter REM sleep for any length of time then you'll still feel mentally drained. In fact, if you go without REM sleep for long enough you'll die, no matter how much non-REM sleep you get.

 

Hit points aren't about injury. They represent how much punishment a character can take before falling prone. A character with 10 HP who takes 10 points of damage is unconscious. A character with 200 HP can take the same amount of damage and barely notice. The seriousness of the wound would be the same in both cases.

 

Given that 'death' occurs at -10 HP, someone near-death (ie. into negative HP) won't be in any state to be able to rest! Having 1 HP isn't close to being dead (it's just close to falling unconscious).

[olnorton]

But where does it say that casting the 3 or 4 spells that a low level caster gets is at all mentally draining?
She is limited to how many spells she can keep in her focal memory (this amount grows the more you use it)
The other spells she knows & uses regularly are in her subconscious memory.

Think of it as remembering a mates mobile number.
You don't go around thinking of your mates phonenumber constantly in case you need to ring him, you might go months without thinking about his number, but when you want to ring him you just bring the number into your focal memory and ring the number.
Almost instant & little if any mental strain.
Alright so if you where in the middle of a battle you might find yourself thinking "what the hell is his ^%#@$! number!
But if you survive the battle and everything has calmed down, with a few seconds to concentrate, you can remember his number, ring him and say "I had quite a battle, I could have used your help".

At the end of a hard days adventuring, a physically weak mage is probably more tired from the walking the she is mentally drained from casting spells.

[kevL]

you guys are close to arguing about whether Fireball should be d6 or d8

 

[Arkalezth]

1) It's magic. Unless any of you is an actual wizard, we'll never know for certain the most "realistic" approach to spell memory.

 

2) Regardless of what makes more sense, it's how the game works, period. I personally hate memorisation. Spontaneous casting isn't that bad, but I'd still prefer a mana system. At any rate, again, that's how the game works.

 

As for resting, my preference is limiting it to when and where it makes sense. Resting in the wilderness in general makes sense for an adventuring party; resting in the middle of a dungeon with an enemy army next door does not. Also, a fighter with a regenerating item assumes a regenerating item, and those tend to be rare in my experience (besides, regenerating works, but it's slow). And clerics are the exact opposite of "poor fighters".

[olnorton]

1) Memory is memory, regardless of what you are remembering, and if you used spells everyday, you would have no trouble remembering them.
2) I agree the game works on memorizing, not mental fatigue.

And low level clerics who use there few available spell slots for healing are poor fighters.
Their BAB is lower than a fighter, Their strength & therefore damage is lower than a fighter & the get less skill points & fighting orientated feats than a fighter.

I just wondered whether modders who add these restrictions are doing it for roleplaying reasons where they think memorizing spells takes a long time & can only be done in your sleep, or whether they are doing it for game balance because they think low level magic users are too powerful & need to be gimped.
In this case Nemo_Studio seems to think the latter, while Dannj has a foot in both camps.