107 réponses à ce sujet

[Eguintir Eligard]

already several quests in since talkin to red armor girl. She has no new info. I recall that I just recently reported back to the lady you start out with at the beginning

[Nemo_Studio]

already several quests in since talkin to red armor girl. She has no new info. I recall that I just recently reported back to the lady you start out with at the beginning

I'm really sorry, I have misunderstood your question. You should talk with the steward of the coop of magi, depending on the evidence you gathered, she'll either reference you directly to a specialist or will ask you to find a somebody with planewalking (Hint: She worships a Single sphere god.) experience to identify your evidence.

 

Very sorry that I couldn't answer you more rapidly and more adequately. You are right, I should drop clearer hints in the journal.

[Eguintir Eligard]

I should have a proper write up for you soon. I was trying to get fully to the end of the module but I think a few touches and a re-release could make this a very well received campaign. The most difficult touches are there, but there are a few easily altered mechanics that impede the whole experience. But again, they can be easily fixed if you are interested.

 

 

I'll write back here soon.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Ok so I did beat it, and I have to say you have a decent story here.

I liked the designs of areas and settings. So if you don't mind, let's assume I gave most of it high marks so I can focus on what I think could still be remedied by updating this module. I would like to see, if you agree, these updates done on the existing module like you did with the resting concerns, rather than just wait until chapter 2, as I think you have gone to great lengths to preserve the choices in chapter 1 affecting the rest. So the whole campaign can benefit from some consistency.

 

Here are the main things plaguing me, some are because of the prior, but they are all issues in order.

 

1. The level you want the player to be seems not to be determined
2. The party is simply too small, for the skills needed
3. The loot selection is all over the map in terms of level coverage (crafting materials that is)
4. Inconsistent combat difficulty (could be a result #1 or #2)

 

I am going to just tell you my general thought process as I played the game. It's easier to type it as a stream of consciousness:

 

 

"Ok I am level 4 as recommenced; I like a challenge. I'll let my companion be a cleric and pick a barbarian. First couple fights were moderate challenge,

there was a risk of death but nothing one reload wouldn't fix; I used my spells to better advantage.

 

I'm going to take on the side quests by the co-ops and on the way I find the temple of mummies. I am successful in using traps and "pulling" some dinosaurs out of the

main room on the one quest. The main dinosaur seems invincible to my level. No matter, I'll try the other quest. In the other quest I keep getting stunned indefinitely by the undead, although I did return later with holy water to much sucess. I had to add 2 levels to suceed with the cheat console, but the balance seems better now.

 

I try the mummy cave now, and my level seems to still be adequate since I boosted it to 6. The traps are constant and I can't open chests so I add a rogue level to my barbarian, but now he lacks a 2nd attack at level 6 (total). Somehow I make it out, and end up back in town.

At this point I have crafted basic metal armor for all my needs, but I've been given a lot of exotic hides as well as essences that are for much higher levels. What level should I be? Combat seems to be barely beatable, but these loots I am getting I'd need to be 5 levels higher to even use for crafting. Should I be a higher level?

I find out that I am able to pursue the main plot line (and have been all along). It's first couple steps are MUCH easier... maybe I should have stayed level 4 and did this part before trying the co op quests. But since I'm a higher level now, experience rewards seem small, and I am not sure if the encounters should be this easy as they are far far easier. Should I delevel back?

I finish the last co op quest at level 7 or 8. I am returning to the main plot. Now combat is much tougher.

Ok but my normal response to a tough combat is to find a new tactic. I try a few, but without immediate sucess I am back to wondering... what level does the author expect me to be here? Do I cheat back up a few levels? I guess so since no tactics work. Although I would have a lot more tactics if I wasn't stuck with a single companion, but that's the game. I can't figure a way through so I added 12 (yes 12) levels so I am 19 and 20. I beat the combats and finish the game."

 

This was a great looking and well told game. But can you see how overwhelming my experience was? I didn't know what to do, because the entire time I was convinced that I was not the right level for the game, and that causes everything else to chain-react negatively. Quest rewards and experience seem to small... combats become impossible, or jokingly easy.

 

I understand why you let people cheat so they could not complain it was too tough for them, but frankly you have to take some kind of stand, even if you want to err on the side of an "easy" challenge rating. Even if that is the case, I really feel you must decide on a level range for the game and stick to it.

 

If you say it's level 4 that's fine. But keep that consistent, and have the encounters, and equally important, the items and rewards follow that path.

If you are going to let the player arbitrarily "cheat" to gain levels each time they encounter a difficult part, it invalidates a lot of the game. Experience rewards for

combat and quest completion are now irrelevant. Combat balance, irrelevant. Tactics (and party size) the same. Even loot becomes an afterthought.

 

Where there is room to "widen the field" in terms of your challenge level, is in the general category of challenge rating.

For example you could say "I want this to be easy to moderate, for a level 4 party."

Or "I want this to start easy but become close to expert difficulty for a level 4 party by the end."

 

At the end of the day, you still have to specify your level and stick to it as everything else runs off from that point.

 

My recommendations for repairs, if you are interested:

 

1. Tune the game combats for the early encounters to be level 4, the middle to be 4 or 5, and the end to be level 6.

This is how I think the game would have progressed if I stuck with it. All you have to do is test your combats with the appropriate level party, and bump them up

or down based on your perceived difficulty. Bump them down perhaps 20% easier than you like, since you  may be ware of tactics the player is not. This isn't a super long module so I really think this can be done relatively quickly.

 

2. Remove items that do not belong to a party of level 4 to 6. Exotic scales and humongous essences are from MOTB, a level 18+ game.

 

3. Open up the party size to at least 3.

While I am hesitant to comment on this as this can often be personal intent, and integral to the game, the way your game plays

a two person party doesn't cut it. Reason being; Since the challenge rating of the encounters is so crucial at these low levels, you have to be able

to count on a player having a single class character. My level 4 barbarian/2 theif was MUCH weaker in combat than just a level 6 barbarian. And your game

forces the player to multi-class to do a lot of what's in the game because of your suggestion and your forced 2 person party.

 

I also believe this step will be easy as your companion is nearly silent. You could simply add another and have it say nothing the whole adventure. Or even 2, to give

the player at least access to the standard 4 base classes.

 

 

I notice you did a lot of work to preserve the story at the end so it can be exported to the next chapter. And that's great, I might even  borrow the way you did it in my future works. With such a good game potential, I think making these changes now would be a great thing. It's only my opinion, but I think if you knew what level the player was it would make chapter 2 that much easier to start off with.

 

As a modder the level is always first thing in the back of my mind when designing anything. Great work and good luck in the future. Thank you for the work.

[Nemo_Studio]

Ok so I did beat it, and I have to say you have a decent story here.

I liked the designs of areas and settings. So if you don't mind, let's assume I gave most of it high marks so I can focus on what I think could still be remedied by updating this module. I would like to see, if you agree, these updates done on the existing module like you did with the resting concerns, rather than just wait until chapter 2, as I think you have gone to great lengths to preserve the choices in chapter 1 affecting the rest. So the whole campaign can benefit from some consistency.

 

Here are the main things plaguing me, some are because of the prior, but they are all issues in order.

 

1. The level you want the player to be seems not to be determined
2. The party is simply too small, for the skills needed
3. The loot selection is all over the map in terms of level coverage (crafting materials that is)
4. Inconsistent combat difficulty (could be a result #1 or #2)

 

I am going to just tell you my general thought process as I played the game. It's easier to type it as a stream of consciousness:

 

 

"Ok I am level 4 as recommenced; I like a challenge. I'll let my companion be a cleric and pick a barbarian. First couple fights were moderate challenge,

there was a risk of death but nothing one reload wouldn't fix; I used my spells to better advantage.

 

I'm going to take on the side quests by the co-ops and on the way I find the temple of mummies. I am successful in using traps and "pulling" some dinosaurs out of the

main room on the one quest. The main dinosaur seems invincible to my level. No matter, I'll try the other quest. In the other quest I keep getting stunned indefinitely by the undead, although I did return later with holy water to much sucess. I had to add 2 levels to suceed with the cheat console, but the balance seems better now.

 

I try the mummy cave now, and my level seems to still be adequate since I boosted it to 6. The traps are constant and I can't open chests so I add a rogue level to my barbarian, but now he lacks a 2nd attack at level 6 (total). Somehow I make it out, and end up back in town.

At this point I have crafted basic metal armor for all my needs, but I've been given a lot of exotic hides as well as essences that are for much higher levels. What level should I be? Combat seems to be barely beatable, but these loots I am getting I'd need to be 5 levels higher to even use for crafting. Should I be a higher level?

I find out that I am able to pursue the main plot line (and have been all along). It's first couple steps are MUCH easier... maybe I should have stayed level 4 and did this part before trying the co op quests. But since I'm a higher level now, experience rewards seem small, and I am not sure if the encounters should be this easy as they are far far easier. Should I delevel back?

I finish the last co op quest at level 7 or 8. I am returning to the main plot. Now combat is much tougher.

Ok but my normal response to a tough combat is to find a new tactic. I try a few, but without immediate sucess I am back to wondering... what level does the author expect me to be here? Do I cheat back up a few levels? I guess so since no tactics work. Although I would have a lot more tactics if I wasn't stuck with a single companion, but that's the game. I can't figure a way through so I added 12 (yes 12) levels so I am 19 and 20. I beat the combats and finish the game."

 

This was a great looking and well told game. But can you see how overwhelming my experience was? I didn't know what to do, because the entire time I was convinced that I was not the right level for the game, and that causes everything else to chain-react negatively. Quest rewards and experience seem to small... combats become impossible, or jokingly easy.

 

I understand why you let people cheat so they could not complain it was too tough for them, but frankly you have to take some kind of stand, even if you want to err on the side of an "easy" challenge rating. Even if that is the case, I really feel you must decide on a level range for the game and stick to it.

 

If you say it's level 4 that's fine. But keep that consistent, and have the encounters, and equally important, the items and rewards follow that path.

If you are going to let the player arbitrarily "cheat" to gain levels each time they encounter a difficult part, it invalidates a lot of the game. Experience rewards for

combat and quest completion are now irrelevant. Combat balance, irrelevant. Tactics (and party size) the same. Even loot becomes an afterthought.

 

Where there is room to "widen the field" in terms of your challenge level, is in the general category of challenge rating.

For example you could say "I want this to be easy to moderate, for a level 4 party."

Or "I want this to start easy but become close to expert difficulty for a level 4 party by the end."

 

At the end of the day, you still have to specify your level and stick to it as everything else runs off from that point.

 

My recommendations for repairs, if you are interested:

 

1. Tune the game combats for the early encounters to be level 4, the middle to be 4 or 5, and the end to be level 6.

This is how I think the game would have progressed if I stuck with it. All you have to do is test your combats with the appropriate level party, and bump them up

or down based on your perceived difficulty. Bump them down perhaps 20% easier than you like, since you  may be ware of tactics the player is not. This isn't a super long module so I really think this can be done relatively quickly.

 

2. Remove items that do not belong to a party of level 4 to 6. Exotic scales and humongous essences are from MOTB, a level 18+ game.

 

3. Open up the party size to at least 3.

While I am hesitant to comment on this as this can often be personal intent, and integral to the game, the way your game plays

a two person party doesn't cut it. Reason being; Since the challenge rating of the encounters is so crucial at these low levels, you have to be able

to count on a player having a single class character. My level 4 barbarian/2 theif was MUCH weaker in combat than just a level 6 barbarian. And your game

forces the player to multi-class to do a lot of what's in the game because of your suggestion and your forced 2 person party.

 

I also believe this step will be easy as your companion is nearly silent. You could simply add another and have it say nothing the whole adventure. Or even 2, to give

the player at least access to the standard 4 base classes.

 

 

I notice you did a lot of work to preserve the story at the end so it can be exported to the next chapter. And that's great, I might even  borrow the way you did it in my future works. With such a good game potential, I think making these changes now would be a great thing. It's only my opinion, but I think if you knew what level the player was it would make chapter 2 that much easier to start off with.

 

As a modder the level is always first thing in the back of my mind when designing anything. Great work and good luck in the future. Thank you for the work.

 

Thank you very much of the feedback!

I think you may be right and I'll inspire myself from your suggestion to make my next update. I'm currently a bit busy, but I'll try to have it done for Sunday.

 

Thanks again!

[Eguintir Eligard]

I can play test again once you make the changes to test for appropriate challenge ratings.

[Dann-J]

I also thought that a party size of at least four would have been more appropriate. I levelled up the lizard-rat vermin as a rogue, which was great for dealing with traps or locks, but it tended to get killed in about five seconds flat in most fights, leaving my fighter to clean up by himself.

 

My fighter invested in a necklace of fireballs which was effective against some enemies, but did little to the drow or deep gnomes. Spell resistance is a biatch queen from hell.

 

It seems that every opponent dropped their entire set of equipment, which was frequently useless since doors tended to lock behind you, preventing you from being able to go backwards and sell things in carryable lots. A few magic bags would have been nice - although they would have made scripts that strip your inventory far more complex.

[Eguintir Eligard]

If the party is enlarged, I'd recommend larger humanoids (other than the existing kobold of course) since the small ones couldn;t  weild many of the weapons. Could also simply let the player make a party of 3 and then join the kobold as the 4th.