Plus, Orlais is still a very hated name in Ferelden. Even if they do get a sucessful marriage between both rulers - the nobles and common folk will probably not accept it and get another civil war.
It'd definitely be something interesting to watch. I think if it was Celene, it would not translate to being 'consumed', however with Gaspard - absolutely.
I wonder what would happen if a m!Cousland who married Anora decided to "pull a Cailan" and attempted to ditch her for Celene?
After all, screwing over Alistair's birthright in order to seize the throne for yourself, (no matter how justified the reasons you might have had for wanting to do so), still was kinda a tool move on the m!Cousland's part, since you went behind both Alistair (your comrade-in-arms since Ostagar) and Eamon's (your political backer) back to pull it off.
Of course, Hero of Ferelden or not, I can't imagine that nobility in Ferelden would leave much of them for Anora to string up afterwards...
The M!Cousland isn't even a King. Your entire arrangement with Anora was that you'd be an irrelevant patsy while she had all the power, and to publically demean you further, she wouldn't even allow you to all yourself a King (but rather a "Prince Consort").
The M!Cousland isn't even a King. Your entire arrangement with Anora was that you'd be an irrelevant patsy while she had all the power, and to publically demean you further, she wouldn't even allow you to all yourself a King (but rather a "Prince Consort").
Yet the epilogue state that both lead Ferelden into a new Golden Age not seen since Calenhad.
Yet the epilogue state that both lead Ferelden into a new Golden Age not seen since Calenhad.
Is it the same for Queen Cousland?
Is it the same for Queen Cousland?
Yes, both marriages to the current ruler result in a Golden Age.
I bloody well hope not. Damn Orlesians.
Plus, Orlais is still a very hated name in Ferelden. Even if they do get a sucessful marriage between both rulers - the nobles and common folk will probably not accept it and get another civil war.
Its almost a certainty tbh
It'd definitely be something interesting to watch. I think if it was Celene, it would not translate to being 'consumed', however with Gaspard - absolutely.
I think it pretty much certain it would translate to being consumed, even if for some reason Celene insists on Ferelden maintaining a high degree of sovereignty / Independence, A large majority of her lords wont agree with her...And she wont live forever.
They would press extremely hard for majority revenue collection of trade along the ports of the waking sea.. That being pretty much the primary reason they want Ferelden.
The M!Cousland isn't even a King. Your entire arrangement with Anora was that you'd be an irrelevant patsy while she had all the power, and to publically demean you further, she wouldn't even allow you to all yourself a King (but rather a "Prince Consort").
Heh, irrelevent patsy.. I'd like her to try to do that to My Warden seeing as he's Arl of Amaranthine, Teyrn of Gwaren, Brother to the Teyrn of Highever and considered a national hero... M!Cousland can actually wield a great deal of power and make her life hell if he really wanted to, You don't need a monarchical title to have power.
Yet the epilogue state that both lead Ferelden into a new Golden Age not seen since Calenhad.
Not quite, it says it could result in a golden age.. If they don't end up fighting for power. But no, no mention of a golden age in Alistair and F!Couslands epilogue, it just says she is popular among the people and Alistair offered her a great deal of leeway.. Tbh Alistair isn't really A monarch capable of ushering in a golden age imo.
I think it pretty much certain it would translate to being consumed, even if for some reason Celene insists on Ferelden maintaining a high degree of sovereignty / Independence, A large majority of her lords wont agree with her...And she wont live forever.
They would press extremely hard for majority revenue collection of trade along the ports of the waking sea.. That being pretty much the primary reason they want Ferelden.
Celene seems to march to the beat of her own drum, so I'm not worried about it. As for her not living forever, of course, therefore it'd also depend on who succeeds her.
Celene seems to march to the beat of her own drum, so I'm not worried about it. As for her not living forever, of course, therefore it'd also depend on who succeeds her.
They wouldnt have enough time to consolidate power just after having suceeded to keep the nobles in line to that degree, especially when if what they were trying to do - maintain Ferelden Sovereignty when it is clearly contrary to Imperial progress and A massive passup of oppotunity nobody would stand for it... She planned on using Ferelden to fight against Nevarra anyway, I doubt such an expectation can be maintained without such conditions considering the crown would be required to esentially dominate its lords to get those levies out of them, something they are unwilling to give even to their own Kings in the middle of a massive foreign invasion, Let alone for a foreign King for a foreign conquest (See, King Brandel and Vanedrin)
Besides can you think of a case where a backwater monarchy has married into A Superpowers monarchy and one side hasnt been pretty much consumed as a result? I can think of plenty of cases to the contrary but not to that.
Honestly it just comes down to differing opinions between the two of us. I'm not really in this enough to argue back, so I'll agree to disagree.
The Mage-Templar war should affect Ferelden too and the Elven Rebellion was put down. Ferelden is too weak from their Blight to do anything. Plus Orlais is actually prepared for attacks from Ferelden. Gaspard remarks that the city of Jader near the Ferelden border is built to fight off invasions.
I was referring to the potentially more successful, larger scale one that's on the verge of beginning at the end of the book. That hasn't even begun yet, but based on the probable leader and resources, it'll no doubt be more successful and more of a problem for Orlais.
Yeah, all the places will take place in Nevarra and Fereldan too, but the core of it seems to be in Orlais.
If an alliance was in place, Fereldan could move forces into Nevarra to bolster attacks from that direction or even simply be a pain in the us at there own borders while Nevarra does the aggressive fighting.
i still say orlais dont need fereldan its soo much better then it already.
I doubt Orlesians would be willing to adopt the Fereldans' political system or vice versa. And that's just one of the many, many issues that would arise. The two countries are just two different and their history is complicated at best. A union could only take place with one of the two parties dominating the other.
@Elder King-the Landsmeet almost made Bryce King. they shouldn't have a problem doing it with his son.
Anora gave the Warden consort a great deal of power-Arl of Amaranthine, possible Teyrn of Gwaren, and he's got a great deal of influence with his brother as well.
The Prince-Consort-well you get called King a lot in DA2. A lot of different reasons that might have happened.
1. Anora might have died, and you married another Queen.
2. Anora relented on sharing equal power with the Cousland.
3. It's a formal reference to make things easier for the Landsmeet, but it doesn't involve you getting more power than you had before.
As far as Orlais, there would still be a great deal of resistance. Loghain just might come out of his grave to put a stop to it(if he's dead).
I hope Ferelden will take this opportunity to secure their borders. Maybe evem reclaim lost territory.
What lost territory is that?
I was referring to the potentially more successful, larger scale one that's on the verge of beginning at the end of the book. That hasn't even begun yet, but based on the probable leader and resources, it'll no doubt be more successful and more of a problem for Orlais.
Yeah, all the places will take place in Nevarra and Fereldan too, but the core of it seems to be in Orlais.
If an alliance was in place, Fereldan could move forces into Nevarra to bolster attacks from that direction or even simply be a pain in the us at there own borders while Nevarra does the aggressive fighting.
I didn't see any reason to think there was a larger and more successful elf rebellion on the verge of starting. In fact given how decisively the one in Halamshiral was crushed, I'd even say that it's unlikely the city elves would be willing to start another one for a while. And Ferelden getting involved in a costly war on foreign territory at all so soon after such a devastating war of their own still strikes me as completely unfeasible, whether they have Nevarran allies or not.
I doubt Orlesians would be willing to adopt the Fereldans' political system or vice versa. And that's just one of the many, many issues that would arise.
Actually, that wasn't a very important issue in medieval times. Different fiefdoms under the same ruler could and used to have different laws and rules. It fact, in some places it was expected that the king or queen would travel to every fiefdom and be declared their ruler, using a different ritual each time.
Actually, that wasn't a very important issue in medieval times. Different fiefdoms under the same ruler could and used to have different laws and rules. It fact, in some places it was expected that the king or queen would travel to every fiefdom and be declared their ruler, using a different ritual each time.
Since Orlais is an empire and Ferelden would become a part of it - the ruler could ofcourse just appoint a vassal king. Though it could also backfire.
But in that way the nobles would have a monarch of their nation and the current ruler wouldn't have to deal with the nobles, only the king.
I have been playing too much Crusader Kings.
Since Orlais is an empire and Ferelden would become a part of it - the ruler could ofcourse just appoint a vassal king. Though it could also backfire.
But in that way the nobles would have a monarch of their nation and the current ruler wouldn't have to deal with the nobles, only the king.
I have been playing too much Crusader Kings.
No one can play too much CKII 
(also, it isn't advisable to appoint kings unless you have a very big empire. You risk your king vassal being too powerful in case a civil war breaks out. Better to keep the king title for yourself).
Will Orlais want an alliance with Fereldan? The Orlesians consider themselves to be superior to the Fereldans. Orlais is also a stronger nation both in terms of military strength and wealth. A Blight ravaged Fereldan IMO will only weaken Orlais. Plus, Fereldans may still consider Orlais as an enemy and this could possibly lead to a civil war upon unification. Even if a union would be beneficial, there would be disagreement from the general public on either side.
Also I see no way the treaties governing the unification will be of any help to Fereldan. If Fereldan shouldn't be conned, then you need Anora (with or without Alistair as king). I think she'll be the only one capable of turning the tables at any summit.
Actually, that wasn't a very important issue in medieval times. Different fiefdoms under the same ruler could and used to have different laws and rules. It fact, in some places it was expected that the king or queen would travel to every fiefdom and be declared their ruler, using a different ritual each time.
But will Fereldens accept a hereditary ruler, or one that is got his/her position through the Game? Will Orlesians accept to let the nobles vote for theirs, or whoever ends up being chosen? Will Ferelden like Orlesian nobles' role in choosing that ruler? I'm thinking no.
Whatever reservations I might have about Orlais, I refuse to taint it with wet-dog Ferelden.
Oh, and the last time a Ferelden King tried to marry an Orlesia Empress, it didn't work out.
But will Fereldens accept a hereditary ruler, or one that is got his/her position through the Game? Will Orlesians accept to let the nobles vote for theirs, or whoever ends up being chosen? Will Ferelden like Orlesian nobles' role in choosing that ruler? I'm thinking no.
The different laws and institutions for each fiefdom include the succession mechanism. The only solution is to change the system or try to have all the candidates be the same. In this case, the Fereldan Landsmeet could vote for a different candidate than the Orlesian backstabber. Or the other way around. It's fertile land for succession crisis and civil wars, yes.
For example, let's take the War of Spanish Succession in 1700. In Europe it was an international war for hegemony, but in Spain was a civil war. Spain was born from the marriage between Isabelle of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon in the 15th century. However, after the Spanish king died with no heirs, the territories of Castile, Navarre and the Basque provinces supported the French candidate, while the territories of Aragon, Catalonia and Valencia chose the Austrian candidate. The French Philip V became king in the end, so he abolished the laws and institutions of the opposing territories. The victors, however, kept theirs.
Retour en haut