225 réponses à ce sujet

[Tarvesh]

EDIT: Hope this doesn't come of as too harsh, I've had a long day and have to let off some steam. Sorry for any offence

Not at all. And I considered all those things as well hen making my post. The reason I would still hold off from calling Anders a terrorist is because he did what he did as a last straw. I wasn't a knee-jerk reaction or even considered a viable option for him until all other avenues of compromise or peace had been tried.

What he did was extreme and was murder, there can be no doubt about that. But it was also done out of desperation and frustration when all his efforts toward a peaceful solution had failed.

On the matter of the Grand Cleric's inability to control Meredith... I think that was her way if trying to remain neutral. The Chantry commands the Templars and Meredith is at the command of the Grand Cleric.

I think he could have tugged a bit tighter in Meredith's leash if she wanted to. But she wanted to look neutral, so she let Meredith do as she wished, only intervening by calming down squabbles like she did in Act 3.

She could have reigned Meredith in or written to the Divine to request a replacement for Meredith. But those would have ruined her neutrality, and this is a lady says she has no control... Even though she has complete control. Heck, she even tells Meredith to 'be a good girl' in the meddle if a crowd... And Meredith obeys.

In the end, I think Anders did everything he could, but the people who could help affect peaceful change chose not put forth effort, and that was what pushed him to his extreme solution.

[OptionFour]

I could say the same thing to Anders detractors not on this forum, but other websites featuring flamewars about Anders.

 

 

O . . . kay?

Not sure how I'm supposed to respond here. Uh. I'm sorry that people I didn't see, on forums I don't go to, are also doing things I asked this guy not to do? Its bad when they do it too. I never said that his arrogance was specifically related to his opinion, and - in fact - you seem to be assuming I'm an Anders detractor myself. I never really stated an opinion on the matter in full. If it were a detractor acting the same way I'd have poked some fun their way too.

 

So . . . I guess, uh . . . I'm sorry your other forums suck. My condolences.

[The dead fish]

Yeah I mean he didn't even think to...you know, rally the mages? Get them to rebel or see that they don't want to? Oh no, Anders knows best and will make your life altering decisions for you!

 

Escape, rebel with a PLAN, you know, things rational people would do. The mages were hit completely unaware and unprepared by a slaughter that Anders knew would happen when he started killing innocent people. Lets think about this for a moment shall we? If we are going to enter a brutal and bloody war, do we want it to be where our enemies blindside us and start slaughtering us in our beds before we even know what's happening? Or do we want an effective strategy that lets us stand a chance? Any logical and reasonable person in Anders' place would have either tried to use his immunity and connections through Hawke to press for serious reform as well as investigate cases of abuse by certain Templars OR started contacting circle mages in secret and find out 1) if they actually WANT to go to war or rebel and 2) who would make good ringleaders in a rebellion. Once you had found that the circle mages leaned towards rebellion and you found suitable collaborators, you could implement a plan and get the drop on the Templars instead of the other way around, all the while sneaking your children and non combatants out to safety through Ander's secret way into the Gallows. This isn't rocket science.

 

Setting off a bomb that kills a bunch of innocents and does NOTHING to weaken your enemy but rather instigates them and sets them on the path of butchering all your allies who don't even now what's going on is NOT a plan.

 

Omg, this is awesomesauce there. I agree with pretty much everything you said. 

[whanzephruseke]

Terrorists don't fight for freedom or liberty.

 

OMG I CAN'T EVEN

 

Ok, I'm gonna try really hard not to come off as rude here, but...seriously?  Have you ever heard of Nelson Mandela?  The French Resistance?  Revolutionary movements in general?  The tactics employed are what define terrorism, not the cause.  Almost every terrorist in history has sincerely believed that what they were doing was for the greater good.

 

I think that perhaps some of you are using "terrorism" in the pejorative sense that has been thrown about in the post-9/11 era, which conflates it with jihadism--as in "He terrorist. He bad."  "Terrorism" just refers to "violent acts that are intended to create fear (terror); are perpetrated for a religious, political, or ideological goal; and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants."  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism

 

Anders is a terrorist, and he would be the first to admit it.  His inner struggle with his choice is one of the reasons I love him so much.

 

[QueenofFereldan]

My thing with Anders is that...I want to like him alot. I can understand his struggles and how hard he tries to reel in Justice. However, when he goes to lash at people for simply not completely agreeing with him, citing them automatically as the enemy, and then goes to kill innocents to start a revolution?...I can't...the thing with Anders is that I wonder if he would kill HAWKE if he/she so happen to be in there at that time. Would he kill his own lover or best friend in order for his cause to be noticed? Scary part is that I think he would've went on with his plan had Hawke been in the Chantry at the time. 

 

I can't agree and side with him when the things he has done caused so many people's lives. There was no war, and even if there was, you don't blow up a building with innocents inside. No honor to that; just meaningless bloodshed just to "fuel" a cause.

[whanzephruseke]

Scary part is that I think he would've went on with his plan had Hawke been in the Chantry at the time.

 

OMG I need to write this once I finish with my current story.

[Nohvarr]

She could have reigned Meredith in or written to the Divine to request a replacement for Meredith. But those would have ruined her neutrality, and this is a lady says she has no control... Even though she has complete control. Heck, she even tells Meredith to 'be a good girl' in the meddle if a crowd... And Meredith obeys.

In the end, I think Anders did everything he could, but the people who could help affect peaceful change chose not put forth effort, and that was what pushed him to his extreme solution.

Elthina could not go to the Divine, since the Divine was considering calling for an exalted March against Kirkwall. Handing the Divine a  note that says "I can't reign in my Templar Commander" could've lead to that March. She also knows that ultimately Meredith will follow her own interpretation of the Makers will. Elthina is a high priestess and has a lot of power on paper...but the moment Meredith thinks Elthina is no longer a viable representative of the Makers will....well Meredith's the one with the sword and the trained soldiers. As for replacing her....unless there is a qualified candidate she knows can do the job she might easily end up with someone far worse.

[Oohforf]

1. You sound like Anders; The Circle isn't so bad. 

 

 

http://canticleofisa...ost/72937235474

 

Anders would have been in such a location.

[chance52]

http://canticleofisa...ost/72937235474

 

Anders would have been in such a location.

 

Nice try.

 

The only people who could believe you are the people that didn't play Origins. That is the basement/empty storage area where they house the phylacteries. That isn't the living area, that isn't the study area. The only moving things down there are the magically animated suits of armor to guard the phylacteries.

[bazzag]

Right now, i look at the mess thats happening in Inquisition, and i blame anders. Thedas has gone and got stuck in the U-bend and its his fault. There is always room for diplomacy, find the right people and the right way, and diplomacy can change things. Its people like Anders and Adrien that fail to understand this

[Oohforf]

Nice try.

 

The only people who could believe you are the people that didn't play Origins. That is the basement/empty storage area where they house the phylacteries. That isn't the living area, that isn't the study area. The only moving things down there are the magically animated suits of armor to guard the phylacteries.

 

Yes, they store the phylacteries literally right beside the bones, cages, filth and pools of blood.

[chance52]

Yes, they store the phylacteries literally right beside the bones, cages, filth and pools of blood.

 

They do. That is the entire reason you go down there. Also the only time you go down there at all in Origins. In WH you head there a second time and talk to a statue.

 

You aren't talking to someone that never played the game but clearly you think you are.

[Oohforf]

They do. That is the entire reason you go down there. Also the only time you go down there at all in Origins. In WH you head there a second time and talk to a statue.

 

You aren't talking to someone that never played the game but clearly you think you are.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you saying that they store phylacteries in the basement, but that the basement only serves to protect the phylacteries. Cut the snark. It's uncalled-for.

[chance52]

I'm not disagreeing with you saying that they store phylacteries in the basement, but that the basement only serves to protect the phylacteries. 

Ah then I misunderstood your intent. Hard to tell sometimes with only text.

 

There are other powerful magical items down there too, but nothing to suggest Anders was held down there like you said. He was in trouble a lot for his repeated escape attempts but Irving protected him from the Templar too. The living area and study area was significantly better than most people were living like in Redcliff and Lothering and certainly the castless and alienage. Which doesn't mean they wouldn't obviously prefer to be free, but they weren't living in a dungeon or in the Krikwall prison either.

 

 

 

[Oohforf]

Ah then I misunderstood your intent. Hard to tell sometimes with only text.

 

There are other powerful magical items down there too, but nothing to suggest Anders was held down there like you said. He was in trouble a lot for his repeated escape attempts but Irving protected him from the Templar too. The living area and study area was significantly better than most people were living like in Redcliff and Lothering and certainly the castless and alienage. Which doesn't mean they wouldn't obviously prefer to be free, but they weren't living in a dungeon or in the Krikwall prison either.

 

 

Perhaps not Anders specifically, but I can see mages and templars both being placed there for whatever reason.

 

So long as the templars remain intent on serving as jailers first and foremost and not as guardians and protectors of mages, the Circle will forever remain a prison, albeit a gilded one, to most mages. Not a pinnacle of education and magical succour, unfortunately. There is potential, though, and it's what I will try to strive for as a mage in DA:I. 

[whanzephruseke]

There are other powerful magical items down there too, but nothing to suggest Anders was held down there like you said. He was in trouble a lot for his repeated escape attempts but Irving protected him from the Templar too. The living area and study area was significantly better than most people were living like in Redcliff and Lothering and certainly the castless and alienage. Which doesn't mean they wouldn't obviously prefer to be free, but they weren't living in a dungeon or in the Krikwall prison either.

 

"I escaped from the tower seven times.  After the last time, they put me in solitary confinement for a year."

 

"If I didn't have perspective, I'd still be sitting in a templar dungeon drooling on my smallclothes."

[OptionFour]

"I escaped from the tower seven times.  After the last time, they put me in solitary confinement for a year."

 

"If I didn't have perspective, I'd still be sitting in a templar dungeon drooling on my smallclothes."

 

Interestingly, we never get the details of his escape attempts.

Considering some of the other ways that Anders either tells half-truths, or outright lies, we really can't judge what he did during his escape attempts; did he attack Templars? Did he kill them? What about other people that got in his way, innocents like the folks he blew up in the Chantry? If he did that would he even know that he did, thanks to Justice/Vengeance? These are all things that might justify a harsher treatment in the eyes of the Templars.

 

The problem is that once someone demonstrates a massive capacity for lying, murder of innocents, deceit, and leading the player (or Hawke) down the particular path he wants via deception? Its very, very difficult to take anything they said in the past at face value.

Anders is a liar, amongst other things. That makes me uncertain that 'Anders said so' is a good enough reason to believe anything about the Templars, or the Circle.

[whanzephruseke]

Interestingly, we never get the details of his escape attempts.

 

We hear about them from Finn.

[Adanu]

Right now, i look at the mess thats happening in Inquisition, and i blame anders. Thedas has gone and got stuck in the U-bend and its his fault. There is always room for diplomacy, find the right people and the right way, and diplomacy can change things. Its people like Anders and Adrien that fail to understand this

 

There is no room for diplomacy with the Templars and Chantry in charge, not with people like Lambert in charge.

 

Anders is a hero who used the blood of innocents to make people wake up.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

There is no room for diplomacy with the Templars and Chantry in charge, not with people like Lambert in charge.

 

Anders is a hero who used the blood of innocents to make people wake up.

Using the blood of innocents to send a message is pretty much the opposite of what a hero is. 

[Adanu]

Using the blood of innocents to send a message is pretty much the opposite of what a hero is. 

 

That's your opinion, and not one I share.

[QueenofFereldan]

So it's okay to kill innocents when, any other time, it would be considered evil? Just because it's for mages and its Anders? He is not a hero. I can symlathiz what he went through, but I can never agree with him killing innocents just to start a war. A war that probably got more of his own kind killed than the Templars.

[AlexiaRevan]

Question : Anders said he got away 7 times right and everytime they brough him back (put him in isolation) . 

Wynn student who was younger then Anders , got away once..and they tried to kill him . 

 

Not trying to raise a flame war , but anyone know why is there a difference? do circles have different laws on mages escaping?

[Gileadan]

There is no room for diplomacy with the Templars and Chantry in charge, not with people like Lambert in charge.

Anders is a hero who used the blood of innocents to make people wake up.

Templars are heroes who use the blood of innocent mages to protect the world from demons. (or from mage "heroes")

Oh look, that made just as much sense!

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That's your opinion, and not one I share.

No, that is using definitions of words.