The police are about guilty of a crime within their laws that they can prove, not about reading human nature.
That being said, Chantry personnel as a whole support the Chantry, which are far from being innocent.
And?
In that case, Anders should kill every person in every nation in Thedas. After all, those people are part of nations that have ties with the Chantry and thus the Templars and the Circles and yet didn't do anything to stop it, right?
eeeeh, his similarity (obviously unintentional, as it hadn't happened yet, also bioware aren't scumbags) to Anders Brevik leaves a bad taste in my mouth with him. I can't see caring about his character or playing with his character if given the choice. and if I am, and I have to, I'll probably let him die at the first opportunity.
Where is it said the majority of mages hated him for it? I don't recall that in game at all....And what's of the mages who support blood mages or the Chantry? That would mean, by your logic, they are far from innocent and should die.
I am with Kallen on this. Anders killed innocent people, some of whom didn't want to be involved in that mess. To say he is a hero--when even the majority of the mages hated him for what he did--seems a stretch. Especially if you are condemning others for doing something like he did, just not for mages.
Where is it said the majority of mages hated him for it? I don't recall that in game at all.
Not supporting his method but it looks to me as though it was a catalyst to a rebellion that spread to circles outside Kirkwall. There would likely be a number who were angry, but there would be likely a number of mages both inside the circle and apostates who saw it as an opportunity to fight for their freedom.
It was in Asunder IIRC. The Circles basically wrote Anders off as a madman. Even Pro-Freedom people like Fiona didn't approve of what he did.
It was in Asunder IIRC. The Circles basically wrote Anders off as a madman. Even Pro-Freedom people like Fiona didn't approve of what he did.
Okay, thanks. I haven't read it yet.
Guest_Israfel_*
eeeeh, his similarity (obviously unintentional, as it hadn't happened yet, also bioware aren't scumbags) to Anders Brevik leaves a bad taste in my mouth with him. I can't see caring about his character or playing with his character if given the choice. and if I am, and I have to, I'll probably let him die at the first opportunity.
Wow, that is really.. extra creepy. He even looks like Anders.
Okay, thanks. I haven't read it yet.
No problem. 
It was in Asunder IIRC. The Circles basically wrote Anders off as a madman. Even Pro-Freedom people like Fiona didn't approve of what he did.
Well it didn´t happen ingame so it didn´t happen. Atleast not in my gameplay.
Well it didn´t happen ingame so it didn´t happen.
...And what's of the mages who support blood mages or the Chantry? That would mean, by your logic, they are far from innocent and should die.
I am with Kallen on this. Anders killed innocent people, some of whom didn't want to be involved in that mess. To say he is a hero--when even the majority of the mages hated him for what he did--seems a stretch. Especially if you are condemning others for doing something like he did, just not for mages.
Sorry, using a strawman based on a misinterpretation of my words doesn't help your argument.
I never said that everyone should die, I said that there is no such thing as true innocence because human nature makes it impossible. Everyone at some point has become angry, sad, depressed, or vengeful.
Victory has never been about who is 'right', it's been about who is 'left'.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
Wow, had to dig really deep to necro this one. Good job!
In an effort to counter all the negativity of Anders in the last few posts I'm just going say:
Anders is a hero.
Anders is so far from a hero that he couldn't see the neon green word Hero from the orbit where I wish I could throw him.
Mages are not oppressed in all corners of the world and he's not even originally from Kirkwall, ya know that major city that he blows up one of the largest buildings in and kills hundreds if not thousands of possibly innocent people. He no longer had a phylactery for the Templars to follow him so he could have just disappeared without a trace into an area where mages were less oppressed (such as Orlais) or gone into Tevinter where mages are pretty much king. He could have helped mages by getting them an escape route to one of the other areas of the world instead of making it even worse on them by just making people hate and fear mages even more.
Also he has seen first hand not only Hawke, but the Warden or the Warden-Commander of Orlais (if you played DA:A without your Warden) turn the world around in a very short period of time. Instead of following their example he decided it was best to destroy a large number of people for the sake of his personal crusade and it didn't even mean anything. Instead of believing in his friends, such as Hawke, instead of using them like pawns in a sick game he could have changed the world without 'collateral' damage.
Very few people believed what really happened in Kirkwall even when they were told by someone like Cullen, which is proved by Cassandra's utter disbelief at Varric's story. It wasn't until later that the Circles shattered and Kirkwall was a footnote in the reasons why.
My biggest problem with the character of Anders is the sheer lack of his awareness of the world around him. He's met not one but two of the 'greatest' heroes of the Dragon Age universe and they can do things with or without violent means. He's a character assassination of himself as by the end of DA:A and part way through DA 2 it seems that he's starting to realize that things can be done without a total loss of life, and then chooses to put his friend (and possible romantic partner) in the dark and kill off innocents anyway.
Depending on your rivalry or friendship he may or may not admit that he perverts the noble spirit of Justice into Vengeance. He'll either claim that he shouldn't have taken Justice within himself or he'll claim he was in full control. He then puts himself at the mercy of Hawke in either option which is another sheer assassination of the freedom demanding Anders who would probably have gone down fighting especially considering he was still fueled by the Spirit of Vengeance (Penance Stare not included).
He's well written up until he whines one too many times about oppression, when he moved into Kirkwall which is pretty much the most oppressed area for Mages ever and knew that in the first place (since he wants to make an example at the 'heart of darkness'); and when he chooses to kill people that were trying to help him such as the Divine and chooses to use his friend Hawke as a diversion to guarantee his terrorist action is successful.
He's one of the worst example of flip-flop writing in the entire series.
Wow, had to dig really deep to necro this one. Good job!
Indeed, and I'm going to leave my response right here and dance off with a whistle.......
I, for one, agree. His method wasn't exactly wise or excusable but the whole system is rotten. People who are pro-templar are the kind of people who never lived in a dictature, or didn't read their ****** Orwell.
I, for one, agree. His method wasn't exactly wise or excusable but the whole system is rotten. People who are pro-templar are the kind of people who never lived in a dictature, or didn't read their ****** Orwell.
Sure, but when the plan is "incite the oppressors to perpetrate genocide to convince others to rise up against them" you're about as close to evil as a person can be without crossing the line into cartoonish D&D alignments.
I, for one, agree. His method wasn't exactly wise or excusable but the whole system is rotten. People who are pro-templar are the kind of people who never lived in a dictature, or didn't read their ****** Orwell.
"The whole system is rotten" is the excuse of the lunatic who tosses a grenade into the room and then needs to rationalize away the collateral damage. Blowing up a chantry with clerics and chantry sisters inside just "because they're with THEM" is the equivalent of tranquilizing/killing all mages, just to be safe. It puts Anders (and his supporters) at the same moral level as people who are in favor of the Right of Annulment.
"The whole system is rotten" is the excuse of the lunatic who tosses a grenade into the room and then needs to rationalize away the collateral damage. Blowing up a chantry with clerics and chantry sisters inside just "because they're with THEM" is the equivalent of tranquilizing/killing all mages, just to be safe. It puts Anders (and his supporters) at the same moral level as people who are in favor of the Right of Annulment.
It's not his terrorism alone that crosses the moral event horizon. It's that the gameplay involves the extermination of your own people, you're actually worse than the ones who want to pull of Annulment.
The method is absolutely wrong, the reason is understandable. (The most revolution, which ended in civil war, specifically monstrous – also the consequences are often ... I think Still, how many bloody revolution initiators considered a hero?)
Well, I also support Magneto. Similar situations, even.
How do give Anders more dynamite. I kept him alive because he ain't done yet.
To paraphrase the great Arthur Fonzarelli, Anders and Justice are like ice cream and ketchup; separate they're "Aaayyyyhhhhhhhh!!!" 
, but together they're "Uuuggghhhhh!!!" 
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