27 réponses à ce sujet

[Rolo Kipp]

<luring some hot-headed dragons...>

 

So, in the interest of not clogging up TAD's Forest Dragon thread and collecting the evidence in a search-friendly specific thread, I'd like to start a new one to look into the targetable/animation crash certain models (notably Hardpoint's Dragons) have.

 

I had heard quite a while ago that this bug was due to too many elements, as Cervantes also was told by a dev. But it's looking like it *may* be something to do with specific animations on *some* of Hardpoints models; Carcerian reported a workaround of changing the supermodel for the model.

 

Hardpoints has six "c_Drags_base[2,3,4,5,8]" supermodels in his 2009 update.

 

One of the problem models reported was the Red Dragon (c_drgred[01-12].mdl) which uses the c_Drags_base.mdl (unnumbered) supermodel.

Another one mentioned was the Gold Dragon (c_drggold[01-12].mdl), which uses c_Drags_base for 01 and c_Drags_base3 for 02-12.

 

I'd like to look at these models specifically, then. Are there more specifics?

Carcerian, when you supermodeled to the green dragon, was it the bioware green dragon or to Hardpoint's c_DracoGreen[08-12].mdl, which supermodels c_Drags_base4?

 

<...out of the (flammable) forest>

[Carcerian]

 

I just replaced all the c_drags_* bases with renamed bioware c_dragongrn.mdl versions and now they are working like standard dragons

[Rolo Kipp]

<going a little...>

 

Did you by any chance use the fancy-schmancy c_dragongrn.mdl I did for the CCC with the pounce and stomp custom anims? ;-)

Just askin :-)

 

Ok, so I need to see how much I can narrow things down. Is it all Hardpoint's bases, or only one/some. Which anims with which models (i.e. synergy between element count and anim).

 

<...green>

[Carcerian]

Nope, I just used the bioware ones, tho yes you could probably use the CCC ones too

[cervantes35]

I suspect the spell which needs to target the creature also causes the 80 node trigger crash but if the general bioware dragon animations work with no problems even on the more problematic dragons then we need to look more closely at the animation models because I kinda like the new animations he had done.

[Carcerian]

Just tested a battle royale, and yup, it still crashed, so its definatly more than just animation issues...

[MannyJabrielle]

Not sure if this bit of info is of any use, but when TAD added Hardpoint's dragons to the Aenea PW, I found that red/green/gold mentioned above caused crashes on two different computers of mine.  However my current piddly lil netbook plays very nicely with them.

 

Specifically, the crash would happen with reverting back to normal form froma  dragonshape/shape shancge dragon appearance (gold, reds, and greens), and also if I used the "taunt" radial emote while in dragon shape.

The only thing I could see that those two things had in common was an animation where the dragon model reared up on it's hind legs a bit and spread it's wings out.  That wing spreading consistently crashed me on my old toshiba and dell computers.  Why it doesn't crash my current HP netbook I can't say.

I also seem to recall a convo with TAD a long while ago where we discussed something similar (one of his reforged crossbows crashing me in the same manner) and I seem to recall something about the wings and the crossbow sharing a similar skinmesh or something.... as I said, it was a long time ago and just a brief conversation.

[MannyJabrielle]

Oh, and another thing I just remembered.... The HP dragons CAN crash my current computer.... I've added them to a module I'm making, but instead of adding in all the size variations for all the different dragons, I used just one size, and use the invisible/tail method to scale sizes.... While the individual models did not crash, a resized model with target glow does crash should I tab-highlight the creature.  Changing the targetable setting for invisible dragon appearance in the 2da to no highlight glow solved that.

Sorry if any of this info is already known, I haven't read the forest dragon thread or know what is common knowledge on this issue

[cervantes35]

Then the best plan of action would be to correct the dragons who bust the 80 node threshold and work from there considering your test results.

[Jedijax]

I actually tried to overrde the white dragon with the fang dragon, and played around with the base models like Carcerian did, and can confirm it doesn't work. I tried different things in 3ds max, but none of them seemed to help. I guess it needs a check up of all animations.

[Mecheon]

Apply the animations to one of the standard dragon models (Because we know they don't crash the game) and see what happens

 

I thiiiiink most use the unnumbered, but can't be sure

[Pstemarie]

Apply the animations to one of the standard dragon models (Because we know they don't crash the game) and see what happens

 

I thiiiiink most use the unnumbered, but can't be sure

 

Been there, done that, crashes on low-end systems. Although I like HP's dragons, this is the primary reason I stopped using them. One thing that I haven't tried is converting all the geometry on the animation supers to dummy nodes. This reduces the size of the animation super considerably. 

 

BTW, if the animation super has more than 80 nodes, you'll crash for sure.

[Mecheon]

Been there, done that, crashes on low-end systems. Although I like HP's dragons, this is the primary reason I stopped using them. One thing that I haven't tried is converting all the geometry on the animation supers to dummy nodes. This reduces the size of the animation super considerably. 

 

BTW, if the animation super has more than 80 nodes, you'll crash for sure.

Having experimented with that dragon for my failed Zmey a few CCC's ago, I can confirm the super is likely the issue. It has a lot more heads than it needs

[Tiberius_Morguhn]

One test to try to maybe help with troubleshooting is to either disable shadows within the game options or disable the shadow option for each model (and it's parts).  I found (while experimenting with high poly count imports from other games) that having a high poly shadow would crash both the toolset and the game engine.  I

[Carcerian]

More Test Results:

 

With animation changes all gem dragons seem to check out, as well as Saridor, Bahumat, Tiamat, Hellfire, Pyroclastic, Rust, and Tarterian.

 

Fang dragon can be added to list of known crashers.

[Jedijax]

Definitely. I tried using that one as a white dragon override to crashy outcomes. The Rust Dragon works well as a copper dragon replacement though, without tweaking anything, I believe.

[Vincent07]

I've had Hardpoints dragons in my haks for some time, testing them before I fully add them into my server.  I had to set each of the models to be untargetable in the .2da or they crash.  Changing to or from their model in-game to anything that is targetable, causes a crash if you have your mouse over them at the time. (ie: it highlights the model)   I solved that by just making my dragons immune to polymorph spells.

 

But if there is a better fix for these models y'all come up with, that'd be great.

[Malagant]

 

Having experimented with that dragon for my failed Zmey a few CCC's ago, I can confirm the super is likely the issue. It has a lot more heads than it needs

I'm not entirely certain, but c_drags also doubles as the super for his hydra models, I believe, hence the number of heads. I've always been curious what the difference was between all those numbered versions is if they were really all that necessary.

[Pstemarie]

I'll have to look through the ones I've got on my old WIP files - now that I've got time to breathe I seem to remember spending a lot of time working on the animation supers.

[tenor_general]

I'm looking at including these into my brothers' and my module/eventual PW.  Am I correct in my understanding that with changing the supermodel to the base NWN green dragon, the crashing issues go away?  Admittedly, the updated animations would be missed, but I think I may be able to live with that.

[Carcerian]

They also still crash because some still have too many nodes, and need to be reworked by a modeller...

[The Amethyst Dragon]

I borrowed a couple of small bricks from PHoD's workspace and started carefully pummeling some dragons to get them below 80 nodes.  They don't seem too upset yet, but then again I've only beat up a half dozen animation supers and a few Tartarus dragons so far.

 

Anybody know if there's a fast way of getting a count on the nodes/objects in a model, perhaps with gmax? It would help to know which models I really need to do cosmetic surgery on and which I don't, and how much work may remain on any individual without, you know, actually counting.

[The Amethyst Dragon]

Aha!  I'm no expert at writing batch files for Windows, but I managed to do one that lets me drag and drop an uncompiled .mdl file onto it to get the number of lines that contain "endnode".   Now I can work on a dragon model, export it, drag & drop it onto the batch file, and get the model's current node count.

 

 

For those that would find it useful, it's only two lines:

 

find /c "endnode" %1
PAUSE

 

Note: This does count each occurrence of "endnode" in the file, so it's unreliable for models that have built-in animations.

 

So, for an example of node savings just by combining some parts, how about that Tartarus dragon? For the great wyrm version (hp_drgtar12), I attached the spikes to the corresponding body part that they were linked/parented to. The model went from 128 nodes to 64. Here's hoping the tediousness of the work pays off in non-crashy dragons.

[The Amethyst Dragon]

For the few dragon models that include animations (that'd be all those "base" ones), I got my node counts by importing them into gmax (geometry only) to strip out the animations and exported them with a slightly altered file name. I've even managed to get the Tiamat and hydra models down to 79 nodes (with only minor sacrifices to existing geometry or movement). Those fang dragons were the worst offenders though, as each little spike and spine was a separate object...though those were some of the easiest to fix since I could just quickly combine them into fewer objects).

 

When I'm done, I'm going to run all of Hardpoints' dragons through CleanModels 3.5.2. Hopefully when all is done, the crashing problems will be a thing of the past.

 

Only about 60 models to go (as I haven't done anything with ones already at less than 80 nodes).

[The Amethyst Dragon]

If your computer is one of those ones that crashes using Hardpoints' dragons in the CEP, you're just the people I need now.  My own computer has only crashed 1 time with any of these dragons in-game since CEP 2.4 was released, so I need people to test the modified models to see if the crashing issue remains.

 

308 models (6 animation bases, 302 dragon appearances that supermodel to those bases).

 

What I did:

- modified each model to have 80 or fewer nodes (or left those alone that were already at less than 80)

- set shadows to 0 for all of them

- ran all through CleanModels 3.5.2

- compiled all models

 

Test steps needed:

- download cep2_dragontest.hak (13.6 mb .7z download) and add it to your testing module above CEP files

- make sure the dragon appearances in appearance.2da have targetable column set to 1

- add Hardpoints' dragons to one or more areas to test from DM and player perspective

- test shapechange/wildshape function (crashes previously reported on returning to non-dragon shape)

- report results here

- - - if still finding crashes, please report exactly which dragon models crashing

- - - if no more crashes, that's something we want to hear about, too

 

Thanks in advance for helping out with this testing that I can't do on my own.