158 réponses à ce sujet

[mybudgee]

I'm just happy that we all got what we wanted

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The sarcasm runs deep in this one ^^^

[Excella Gionne]

If we all did, there'd be no complaints... I know I'd never get what I want when it comes to romances.... :'(

[Staff Cdr Alenko]

(...)
And with the Citadel dlc Mass Effect 3 just becomes something else, you get resolution before you meet certain doom. Beautiful.

The thing is, and that's the - the! - problem not just with the ending, but with almost the entire "ME3" - Mass Effect was NEVER* about certain doom. That whole "we're gonna go down, but we will go down fighting" nonsense.

Shepard and Co. always were intelligent heroes. People who can not only kick butt, but also think, use tactics, be smart. And if anything can be said about smart protagonists, as any Terry Pratchett fan will tell you, it is this: they don't care about the last, glorious battle. They do what they have to do to overcome what opposes them, protect their friends, and come out on the other side, into the light. To make sure the battle won't be the last one. And that in itself is truly glorious.

The awesome emerges out of itself, in a natural way. It cannot be forcibly imposed through artificially added drama.

*Maybe except for a tiny bit of dialogue in Arrival, the Paragon option in the Harby conversation. But back then it was possible to pick neutral and have a more optimistic tone. And regardless of the choice in that conversation, it ended with "We will fight, we will sacrifice and WE WILL FIND A WAY".

[Staff Cdr Alenko]

Oh damn and blast. Double post. Sorry!
 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

NBA 2K12 had a better ending. You could win the trophy in season or franchise mode.

[Ryriena]

In the end, it ended with my Shepard in a dazed forum where it's not my Shepard anymore. My Shepard would not agree with using super weapon to defeat the reapers. My Shepard would've planed and prepared not the stupid sit on her ass with thumbs up her butt for six months. Why the hell is she on earth when she's has not done Arrival. Anderson was there when my specter statues was reinstated, so why, allow them to put me on trail? Players are discounted from their version of Shepard.

[RZIBARA]

I never asked for this

[Aimi]

Shepard and Co. always were intelligent heroes. People who can not only kick butt, but also think, use tactics, be smart.

I...don't really see the evidence for this in the games.

[RZIBARA]

I...don't really see the evidence for this in the games.

 

yeah...  i mean those brilliant suicide mission and beam charge were magnificent tactics!

[Iakus]

yeah...  i mean those brilliant suicide mission and beam charge were magnificent tactics!

 

General Haig would have been proud

[Aimi]

General Haig would have been proud

Haig was the most brilliant Scottish general in history: he got more Englishmen killed than anybody else.

Being their commander was just his cunning plan...

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I...don't really see the evidence for this in the games.

 

It's an informed ability. Obviously, rule of cool and gameplay/narrative separation are going to take place unfortunately. Plus, at the risk of sounding like David, BW assumed players were morons and tailored the game to be accessible without making people think very hard in the name of 'fun'.

 

In universe, you can assume whatever you want about Shepard and the crew. From experience and first-hand knowledge, I would guarantee that he's mentally gifted, probably a genius. Mental acuity is one of the highest requirements for the kind of job that he does in today's modern force; it's a mostly self-working organization. Only the truly intelligent will be able to excel. It's one of the few places where meritocracy in the military overcomes other things, namely the insane focus on the PT standard. Everywhere else in the Army (including, much to my chagrin, Military Intelligence), the focus is on PT; you can be dumber than a box of lead rocks with crayon drawings on them, but if you can get 20 push-ups more than anybody else and run your 2 mile 90 seconds faster, you're somehow perfectly qualified to be an Airborne Ranger, or, even more terrifyingly, an Officer (which also requires you to get above a 2.0 GPA in college.) Pretty scary how we Officers aren't judged by our ability to lead or adapt or take charge or for actual intelligence so much as how well we did in college (in a near-completely non-military environment) and how fast we can run or how strong our abs and biceps are. That's not to say that those aren't important at all (exactly the opposite, an officer needs to be one of the best if not THE best performer on the PT Test in whatever unit they're commanding), but, being a product of this commissioning environment myself within the last 3 years, there is a gross over-importance placed on PT and an irrelevant University/Civilian qualification in the Order of Merit Listing. The better you perform at PT and the higher GPA you get (it can be something as useless as art or writing or history or underwater basket weaving), the more qualified you are to get assigned the branch of your choice (Infantry, MI, Aviation, AG, etc.), be damned whatever you scored in practical and applied tactical leadership and skill qualifications relevant to whatever branch you want to join. 

[CrutchCricket]

Can't take spliced ME dialogue seriously. All I keep thinking is

 

We'll bang, ok?

[AlanC9]

It's an informed ability. Obviously, rule of cool and gameplay/narrative separation are going to take place unfortunately. Plus, at the risk of sounding like David, BW assumed players were morons and tailored the game to be accessible without making people think very hard in the name of 'fun'.

I wouldn't say that was an unreasonable assumption. And making the character smarter than the player is a bit tricky without making the player feel railroaded.

[Ryriena]

For me Shepard not being with Garr bear is depressing. He says he wants one thing to go right for him and she dies. In my ending he died at the beam run along with my Shepard. So Sarai gets to meet up with him again in the beyond.

[Staff Cdr Alenko]

I...don't really see the evidence for this in the games.

 

What I meant by "Shepard and Co" were all characters that are on Shep's side - Mordin, for instance. In Shepard's case, what I meant was, to give one example, the ability to charmidate his/her way through almost anything.

 

That and what Massively Effective said above.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I wouldn't say that was an unreasonable assumption. And making the character smarter than the player is a bit tricky without making the player feel railroaded.

 

That's what I'm saying. Someone like you or me or several of the people on here would have no problem being able to play more up to someone else's level, like Shepard. Whereas, for the most part, most people can't. Most people don't have the time or energy or capacity to sit and think hard bout what they're doing (even less move and think hard as the game's situation makes you do sometimes).

 

In gameplay, it's understandable. In universe, it's laughable.

[jtav]

I consider the fact that there's no magic C/I, Shepard has to make an almost impossible choice, and that we didn't get an ending like this to be the ending's strong suit.

[CrutchCricket]

I consider the fact that there's no magic C/I, Shepard has to make an almost impossible choice, and that we didn't get an ending like this to be the ending's strong suit.

 

Impossible choice =/= good (i.e well-written) choice.

 

And speaking of choice, how is less choice a strong suit?

[jtav]

Oh the ending is an absolute mess, with both the Catalyst's motive and the consequence of Detroy not really following from the story. But that there is no choice that makes the player feel as if they had an unmitigated victory with morality and everything important to them is something I consider a strength.

[Iakus]

I consider the fact that there's no magic C/I, Shepard has to make an almost impossible choice, and that we didn't get an ending like this to be the ending's strong suit.

 

There's certainly nothing wrong with a "no perfect outcome" ending.  But it is important that the outcome be something the player can find acceptable.  Particularly given the themes of the narrative.

 

That's why I have nothing but disgust for these endings.  I find them thematically dissonant as well as personally repulsive.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

There's certainly nothing wrong with a "no perfect outcome" ending.  But it is important that the outcome be something the player can find acceptable.  Particularly given the themes of the narrative.

 

That's why I have nothing but disgust for these endings.  I find them thematically dissonant as well as personally repulsive.

 

Destroy and Control aren't really thematically dissonant in and of themselves. Just in the context of what concept they're being addled with. Otherwise, Destroy and Control as they are are fine for the most part. I think they should keep the Geth and EDI's death in place. As I said on my... snapping at you, I think any argument based off of upset at what the consequence of firing the Crucible is is petulant morality getting in the way of necessity. All I can say is steel your compassion and empathy if you can't discard it completely (listen to Javik. That man is a genius in warfare). Focus on doing what needs to be done, not on how you do it. Don't ever let personal distaste stop you from doing what has to happen, and don't let the moral repugnance slow you down as you recover to rebuild. Feeling guilty never made anything better. 

[jtav]

Or, as someone who disagrees very strongly with Javik...

Virtue is cheap in ME. If you act heroically, you will never ever have to pay gor it in any significant way. Save the Council? There are fewer casualties and everyone loves you. And the pattern keeps repeating. If there are downsides, they are largely confined to throwaway news reports. You don't have to work any harder to be good or sacrifice anythinh that's important beyond three people willing to die. This is dishonest. Being good is hard. Sometimes you will lose or pay more for it. You want to keep your honor? Refuse. And yes, watch everything die. Or Destroy (which falls within just war theory).

[Iakus]

Or, as someone who disagrees very strongly with Javik...

Virtue is cheap in ME. If you act heroically, you will never ever have to pay gor it in any significant way. Save the Council? There are fewer casualties and everyone loves you. And the pattern keeps repeating. If there are downsides, they are largely confined to throwaway news reports. You don't have to work any harder to be good or sacrifice anythinh that's important beyond three people willing to die. This is dishonest. Being good is hard. Sometimes you will lose or pay more for it. You want to keep your honor? Refuse. And yes, watch everything die. Or Destroy (which falls within just war theory).

 

This is why I said I have no problem with a "no perfect outcome"  I think it would have been cool to have the Paragons need to take a longer, harder road to get to the same point as Renegades who crush all enemies beneath their boots.  This is why I find Redeemer the "best" DAO ending when so many others think the Dark Ritual is a no-brainer.

 

But the endings to ME3 take it beyond the pale.  Screwing with the entire galaxy because no matter how much of a difference I made, it doesn't make any difference in the end?

 

Sure, I could keep my honor and Refuse, but how's that any better than being Renegades being punished for being "pragmatic"??