359 réponses à ce sujet

[Deathsaurer]

This is why Control and Synthesis do seem much better than Destroy.....

Wreav does still try to have his war in Control for all the good it will do him. That guy is an absolutely terrible leader. Glad Kalros eats him in all my saves.

[Excella Gionne]

They hadnt evolved out of ****. The Genophage was only just beginning to to be overcome genetically and it would have taken just as long if not longer for it to have decreased in effectiveness to an appreciable extent. The Salarians jumped the gun blatantly in dealing with making the 2.0 virus, and did so for the most stupid of reasons.

Which kinda contradicts Mordin's saying in which he believes in evolution...the Krogans were adapting to the Genophage and within years later they would have been Genophageless. 

[Excella Gionne]

In the end, the Salarians are to blame for starting the whole damn thing about the Krogans. Let's just say you burn the fire you created! 

[Kabooooom]

Which kinda contradicts Mordin's saying in which he believes in evolution...the Krogans were adapting to the Genophage and within years later they would have been Genophageless.

Over the past millennia, random mutations had occurred in the binding sites for the genophage within the Krogan genome - presumably making binding less efficient (probably not preventing it altogether). Natural selection had allowed this genotype to become prevalent in the population, presumably because the individuals that possessed it were *slightly* more fertile than the others.

That is what Mordin was describing. It seems that the Krogan had begun to evolve a mild resistance to the genophage, but I have a hard time believing that this would have accelerated to the point of full on resistance within a few years. Maybe in another millennium, perhaps. I'll have to see how Mordin describes how rapid this change is occurring again. I just played the mission several weeks ago, but I did not get the impression that widespread resistance to the genophage was imminent.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Which kinda contradicts Mordin's saying in which he believes in evolution...the Krogans were adapting to the Genophage and within years later they would have been Genophageless. 

 

Again, allow me to point out that it took the better part of 1000 years for the Krogan to start adapting to the Genophage. Any adaptation will NOT occur in such a rapid span of time. Its far more likely that it would take an extraordinary length of time for them to adapt to a point where they could see a rise in the birth rate. 

 

Over the past millennia, random mutations had occurred in the binding sites for the genophage within the Krogan genome - presumably making binding less efficient (probably not preventing it altogether). Natural selection had allowed this genotype to become prevalent in the population, presumably because the individuals that possessed it were *slightly* more fertile than the others.

That is what Mordin was describing. It seems that the Krogan had begun to evolve a mild resistance to the genophage, but I have a hard time believing that this would have accelerated to the point of full on resistance within a few years. Maybe in another millennium, perhaps. I'll have to see how Mordin describes how rapid this change is occurring again. I just played the mission several weeks ago, but I did not get the impression that widespread resistance to the genophage was imminent.

 

I'm getting up to that point again, so I know I'll be paying more attention to this particular mission as well, and future discussions once they become available.

 

But yeah, point I was trying to make is that evolution does not naturally occur in such a short time frame. In most cases, rapid evolution would be over a span of a few decades or few centuries.

[Kabooooom]

I agree, and it would proceed even slower in a species that has been reproductively stunted. Every time I've played that mission, I never got the impression of an immediate threat to genophage resistance. And my background is in biology, so I always was very attentive on that mission because I'm fascinated with the idea of the genophage. Although they never really did settle for a decision on how it really worked, the idea itself is biologically fascinating. Very clever plot element.

I'm like 99% sure that he does not give the impression of an immediate threat - only of an eventual threat. And in typical Salarian fashion they proceeded to prevent that from even coming close to becoming a threat.

[Excella Gionne]

I agree, and it would proceed even slower in a species that has been reproductively stunted. Every time I've played that mission, I never got the impression of an immediate threat to genophage resistance. And my background is in biology, so I always was very attentive on that mission because I'm fascinated with the idea of the genophage. Although they never really did settle for a decision on how it really worked, the idea itself is biologically fascinating. Very clever plot element.

I'm like 99% sure that he does not give the impression of an immediate threat - only of an eventual threat. And in typical Salarian fashion they proceeded to prevent that from even coming close to becoming a threat.

Doesn't disapprove that Salarians like their wars won before they begin...

[Ryriena]

Over the past millennia, random mutations had occurred in the binding sites for the genophage within the Krogan genome - presumably making binding less efficient (probably not preventing it altogether). Natural selection had allowed this genotype to become prevalent in the population, presumably because the individuals that possessed it were *slightly* more fertile than the others.
That is what Mordin was describing. It seems that the Krogan had begun to evolve a mild resistance to the genophage, but I have a hard time believing that this would have accelerated to the point of full on resistance within a few years. Maybe in another millennium, perhaps. I'll have to see how Mordin describes how rapid this change is occurring again. I just played the mission several weeks ago, but I did not get the impression that widespread resistance to the genophage was imminent.

Actually, from what I gathered thier was a small amount of Krogan becoming immune to the Genophage. He described the change as small but also big enough to be worried about. But that's just his version of events, as I would like too see the data to prove his finding where correct. As a fellow science nerd, I respected Moridin to a degree however, I still say he was a little hypocrictal in his views on the Krogan.

[Kabooooom]

They sure do like the wars won before they begin. Can't say I blame them though.

It's funny how much foresight and long-term planning they have for a species that is so short lived. Meanwhile the Asari basically strip for half their lives.

[Excella Gionne]

Actually, from what I gathered thier was a small amount of Krogan becoming immune to the Genophage. He described the change as small but also big enough to be worried about. But that's just his version of events, as I would like too see the data to prove his finding where correct. As a fellow science nerd, I respected Moridin to a degree however, I still say he was a little hypocrictal in his views on the Krogan.

His ME3 character didn't contradict him ME2 character, but you can tell he became a little too desperate to help the Krogans. It probably shows that he does feel absolutely guilty for the genophage modification. He did seem like he was doubting himself even when he does try to not show it back in his loyalty mission when you talk to him during his inspection of the dead female Krogan...

[Kabooooom]

Actually, from what I gathered thier was a small amount of Krogan becoming immune to the Genophage. He described the change as small but also big enough to be worried about. But that's just his version of events, as I would like too see the data to prove his finding where correct. As a fellow science nerd, I respected Moridin to a degree however, I still say he was a little hypocrictal in his views on the Krogan.

Hmm now I want to watch a YouTube video for that mission, because I just remember him describing what was basically random point mutations at attachment sites accumulating in the population due to relative reproductive fitness to other Krogan - and not full immunity.

If some individuals were immune though, then the Salarians didn't jump the gun. With 1,000 live births per year, that would become a problem real fast, and especially so once the Krogan figured out which individuals were immune.

EDIT: and yeah Mordin definitely felt guilty - it was clear even in ME2, especially when you pressure him on it. And beyond guilt, he acknowledges that the project was "morally ambiguous" and difficult to deal with, hence why he is glad to fight the Collectors because it is "simpler".

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Doesn't disapprove that Salarians like their wars won before they begin...

 

While true, they had no real cause to act when the Krogan didnt even know since the changes were not being seen in a notable rise in the population

[Ryriena]

His ME3 character didn't contradict him ME2 character, but you can tell he became a little too desperate to help the Krogans. It probably shows that he does feel absolutely guilty for the genophage modification. He did seem like he was doubting himself even when he does try to not show it back in his loyalty mission when you talk to him during his inspection of the dead female Krogan...

I tend to agree, Mordin does feel guilt for the modification. He's doubting himself made me respect his character.

[Excella Gionne]

While true, they had no real cause to act when the Krogan didnt even know since the changes were not being seen in a notable rise in the population

It wasn't relevant to act, but they did it anyway out of pure speculation and fear. Not sure if the Krogans ever learned of the Modified Genophage....

[Kabooooom]

I think Mordin might be my favorite character. I relate to him because of a similar background, and he is badassfully decisive in the actions that he considers are morally correct - but he is not too full of himself to doubt his decisions or change his mind if new circumstances arise.

And his death scene while curing the genophage might be my favorite scene of the trilogy.

[Ryriena]

Hmm now I want to watch a YouTube video for that mission, because I just remember him describing what was basically random point mutations at attachment sites accumulating in the population due to relative reproductive fitness to other Krogan - and not full immunity.
If some individuals were immune though, then the Salarians didn't jump the gun. With 1,000 live births per year, that would become a problem real fast, and especially so once the Krogan figured out which individuals were immune.
EDIT: and yeah Mordin definitely felt guilty - it was clear even in ME2, especially when you pressure him on it. And beyond guilt, he acknowledges that the project was "morally ambiguous" and difficult to deal with, hence why he is glad to fight the Collectors because it is "simpler".

I'm going of off what he described, but from what I heard was that some individuals had been adapting too the Genophage thus becoming immune to it. However, we don't even know how many were adapting too the Genophage. 1,000 live births per year is not that big of a problem hell that wouldn't get the Krogan population to a viable population growth for them too get in a war.


It's pure speculation that the Krogan would go to war or be dangerous enough to warrant such action as modifying the Genophage as such shouldn't even been in the data to began with.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

It wasn't relevant to act, but they did it anyway out of pure speculation and fear. Not sure if the Krogans ever learned of the Modified Genophage....

 

They had no cause at all. Relevance doesnt really matter when they knew that the Krogan were beginning to adapt and that it would take an extremely long time for them to adapt to a point where the virus' effectiveness was noticeably reduced.

[Kabooooom]

@Ryriena - It's 1,000 live births per fertile female per year. Thats collossal from a reproductive standpoint. When taken with their long lifespan and an apparently relatively early sexual maturity, that would become an exponentially large problem fairly quickly.

[Excella Gionne]

They had no cause at all. Relevance doesnt really matter when they knew that the Krogan were beginning to adapt and that it would take an extremely long time for them to adapt to a point where the virus' effectiveness was noticeably reduced.

I find it funny on how they knew they learned that some Krogans were adapting to the Genophage even if it was an extremely small number. Maybe Salarians keep check on the Krogan's fertility rate? It's weird on where they get their statistics or how they get....

[Ryriena]

@Ryriena - It's 1,000 live births per fertile female per year. Thats collossal from a reproductive standpoint. When taken with their long lifespan and an apparently relatively early sexual maturity, that would become an exponentially large problem fairly quickly.

Actually, no it wouldn't we don't even know how many females where adapting.

[Kabooooom]

Fair enough, I should have worded that it *could* become an exponentially large problem quickly, and presumably would since the Salarians felt threatened enough by it to act.

[Excella Gionne]

Could you imagine Salarians affected by a genphage? They'd have died much faster, so what the heck does the Dalatrass know about living with the genophage?

[KaiserShep]

The salarians would probably have cured or at least mitigated its effects before they'd get wiped out. But as for understanding the effects, no, I wouldn't expect the salarians to understand what it's like or fully comprehend the psychological effects.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Could you imagine Salarians affected by a genphage? They'd have died much faster, so what the heck does the Dalatrass know about living with the genophage?

 

Linron is an ignorant and bigoted ******. I doubt she knows much of anything relevant when it comes to living with any sort of true burden. Makes me glad she has to worry about a bloody coup coming her way once STG stops taking orders from her.

[Excella Gionne]

The salarians would probably have cured or at least mitigated its effects before they'd get wiped out.

Haha! True, I'd totally want to see Krogans and Salarians having reversed roles where Krogans are Smarties, whereas Salarians are tough and proud.... :S