287 réponses à ce sujet

[TKavatar]

This topic doesn't get discussed much around here compared to say, sexuality or gender, but I feel there should be more representation of ethnic groups in DA, something I feel the franchise lacks. Sure, we had Duncan and Isabela as major PoC characters, but that was basically it. In DAI we're getting Vivienne and Scribe Lady, let's hope the rest of the NPCs we encounter in DAI aren't 95% white this time.

Thedas may be modelled after medieval Europe, but it isn't medieval Europe. And if Bioware decided that sexuality is a non issue in Thedas to be more inclusive, why couldn't they do the same in the first place and make Thedas more racially diverse?

[efd731]

I'm not. Gonna go down the "realism" path because it's stupid and a bad arguement. But let's face it, they view themselves as "fereldans" or "nevarrans" or "Rivaini" not white,black,brown. So there's that. An also, sure they could use more of the other countries people as NPC's.....but why would there be a tonne of nevarrans or Rivaini in Orlais? I mean, it's not bad if they do, but it's a silly thing for the devs to prioritize(IMO)
Edit: thedas is racially diverse, but we've only seen one country and a single city so far. You definitely haven't seen this* game yet, so who knows?

[Panda]

I think we haven't just went to the areas where people have darker skins in the game. I think Tevinter and Rivaine are like this? Antiva too. Fedelren, Orlais and Free marches seem to have population with lighter skintones.

[TKavatar]

@KT_Chong

?

I'm not. Gonna go down the "realism" path because it's stupid and a bad arguement. But let's face it, they view themselves as "fereldans" or "nevarrans" or "Rivaini" not white,black,brown. So there's that. An also, sure they could use more of the other countries people as NPC's.....but why would there be a tonne of nevarrans or Rivaini in Orlais? I mean, it's not bad if they do, but it's a silly thing for the devs to prioritize(IMO)
Edit: thedas is racially diverse, but we've only seen one country and a single city so far. You definitely haven't seen this* game yet, so who knows?

Val Royeaux is a port city and the capital of Orlais, it would make sense for it to be a hub for different groups of people across Thedas.

[Deebo305]

I still waiting for the post that says having Elves, Qunari, & Dwarves already makes Thedas diverse enough

Seriously though the previous engine made darker skin terrible. They were unbearable in Origins and merely passable in DA2 but Vivienne and "Scribbles" give me hope. I'll wait for the character creator before passing judgment though as always

[Wulfram]

Of the 12 companions + advisors it seems like we've got two black characters.  That doesn't seem unreasonable on the face of it.

 

While I'd rather the world had been set up with more diversity, I wouldn't want to see a major ret-con, and most of the world has been established as fairly light skinned.  Though it could be argued we haven't seen enough people from, say, the Anderfels to really know what they look like.  And it'd nice to be able to play a character of east or southern asian appearance without feeling like you're breaking the lore.

[TKavatar]

Of the 12 companions + advisors it seems like we've got two black characters.  That doesn't seem unreasonable on the face of it.
 
While I'd rather the world had been set up with more diversity, I wouldn't want to see a major ret-con, and most of the world has been established as fairly light skinned.  Though it could be argued we haven't seen enough people from, say, the Anderfels to really know what they look like.  And it'd nice to be able to play a character of east or southern asian appearance without feeling like you're breaking the lore.

Duncan, Isabela and every other PoC so far look more like Middle Eastern/Indian to me. I'd say Vivienne and Scribe Lady are the first true 'black' NPCs we've seen in Thedas, and its not because of their darker skin tone.

[Corker]

And it'd nice to be able to play a character of east or southern asian appearance without feeling like you're breaking the lore.

I thought they were trying for that with Liselle's appearance. Granted that she's one solitary NPC who doesn't even give a quest, but she's precedent.

Re: darker skins, you don't have to even justify a sudden influx of northerners. Chanter Devons, Missionary Rigby, Lord Eddelbrek, and others (including some elves in Denerim, IIRC) are Fereldans with dark skin. Skin pigmentation may be as locally varied as hair color in Thedas. I definitely agree that they could stand to use it on more NPCs than "dead guy in the woods" and "forgettable quest-giver #1." Someone in a position of authority - an Anora, or an Orsino, or a Viscount Dumar sort of NPC - would be nice.

[TheDragonOfWhy]

When you take Ferelden, which is sort of Britain, you factor in a war were they 'expelled' an occupying force and the time it takes to travel anywhere it's understandable why DA:O had 'little ethnic diversity'. Despite that, the ethnic diversity of our world is not a great fit for the DA world anyway. 
But still even then in DA:O it wasn't half bad. There were several dark skinned mages, and lets not forget Wade. The dark skinned master smith. 
Zevran also struck me as darker skinned for an Elf. And before people say 'he's blonde', I don't see why an elf can't be dark skinned and blonde. Though I will admit it could just be tan.

 

If there was a case for saying there should possibly be more diversity I'd say it'd be in DA2. But then again, it's quite localised. We only see the one city, I mean how big is Kirkwall? Wiki says it's only 8 and half thousand... no wait that Scotlands Kirkwall, not DA2! Doh. But just how much of the city and it's people do we see/could we see because of game limitations. 
The major influx of refugees to Kirkwall was from Fereldan, who are ethnically from a colder climate and so are pale in skin tone. So even if Kirkwall, as a major trading post as it is, would have a greater number of darker skin toned traders and merchants, they'd be drowned out by the sudden influx of pasty white faced southerners who've never seen a days sun till they worked in the Bone Pit.

 

That said, if in DA:I we get to travel more and see more of the world as promised, I'd hope we see more diversity. 
Personally I'd want to see more of Rivain and it's people. But then anything that brings my character up north towards Qunari lands is a plus for me. 

[Han Shot First]

I'm in favor of this *only* if it makes sense within the lore. A native of Ferelden for example shouldn't have a dark skin tone unless he or she lives near the Korcari Wilds and is part Chasind, or that character is of full or partial Rivaini ancestry. 

 

As for characters with an Asian appearance...so far there are no cultures in the lore that fit the bill. If there was going to be an 'Asian' character in the series, he or she would need to be Fex, who we have no physical description of so far, or from some newly introduced culture.

[Statare]

I'm in favor of this *only* if it makes sense within the lore. A native of Ferelden for example shouldn't have a dark skin tone unless he or she lives near the Korcari Wilds and is part Chasind, or that character is of full or partial Rivaini ancestry. 

 

As for characters with an Asian appearance...so far there are no cultures in the lore that fit the bill. If there was going to be an 'Asian' character in the series, he or she would need to be Fex, who we have no physical description of so far, or from some newly introduced culture.

 

Serious question: where in the Lore has it been established, concretely that certain Thedosian cultures have certain skin tones, and that the racial diasporas/divisions operate the same way as in real life? Or even that race based on skin tone is culturally specific as it is in real life?

 

Could it not be that there are cultural analogues to European cultures, but they are not racially analogous? Why must asian-looking thedosians come from an asian themed make-believe culture?

[daveliam]

Duncan, Isabela and every other PoC so far look more like Middle Eastern/Indian to me. I'd say Vivienne and Scribe Lady are the first true 'black' NPCs we've seen in Thedas, and its not because of their darker skin tone.

 

Yeah, we seem to be equating Rivaini with black, but based on the characters that we've seen who are Rivaini, they have more european looking features with darker complexions.  Even Scribe Girl kind of looks like she is ethnically similar to Duncan and Isabela.  Vivienne is the first character who looks black.  I wonder if this was because of the old engine or if Duncan and Isabela would have looked the same regardless of engine.  It will be interesting to see if Isabela shows up in DA: I.  Will she look like her DA 2 model?  Or will her features look more "black", like Vivienne?

[Wulfram]

I'm in favor of this *only* if it makes sense within the lore. A native of Ferelden for example shouldn't have a dark skin tone unless he or she lives near the Korcari Wilds and is part Chasind, or that character is of full or partial Rivaini ancestry.

 

I don't disagree, but if the player sees a dark skinned Fereldan, they can assume they've got some Rivaini ancestry.  There's no need for random merchant guy to spell out where his grandma came from just to provide the obvious explanation.

[Hellion Rex]

Serious question: where in the Lore has it been established, concretely that certain Thedosian cultures have certain skin tones, and that the racial diasporas/divisions operate the same way as in real life? Or even that race based on skin tone is culturally specific as it is in real life?

Could it not be that there are cultural analogues to European cultures, but they are not racially analogous? Why must asian-looking thedosians come from an asian themed make-believe culture?

To answer your first question, I'm pretty damned sure it's not "in the lore" about different skin pigmentations.

[TheDragonOfWhy]

Yeah, we seem to be equating Rivaini with black, but based on the characters that we've seen who are Rivaini, they have more european looking features with darker complexions.  Even Scribe Girl kind of looks like she is ethnically similar to Duncan and Isabela.  Vivienne is the first character who looks black.  I wonder if this was because of the old engine or if Duncan and Isabela would have looked the same regardless of engine.  It will be interesting to see if Isabela shows up in DA: I.  Will she look like her DA 2 model?  Or will her features look more "black", like Vivienne?

 

Honestly I've never thought of Rivaini (ie Isabela/Duncan) as black. I've always seen them as 'indian subcontinent' ethnicity. 

[Peer of the Empire]

Thedas is old Europe, not America

[syllogi]

Thedas is old Europe, not America

 

Thedas is fictional, not old Europe.

 

Also old Europe did not have a magical force field around it that did not allow people from Asia or Africa from entering.

 

Also dragons, magic, darkspawn, zombie unicorns with swords shoved through their heads.

[Hellion Rex]

Thedas is old Europe, not America

Yeah....nope.

[MattH]

Thedas is Thedas, it may be partly based on medieval Europe, but it isn't a historicaly correct representation. Let's put the lack of colour in the past games down to a poor engine/lack of thought and hope it's rectified in Inquistion.

[Nohvarr]

Thedas is old Europe, not America

 

Theda is a fantasy world where people toss out magic, spirits rip holes in reality, and things like red lyrium exist. I think they can arrange to have some African/Indian/Asian/Native America/etc looking people in the game.

[DaySeeker]

I'm for diversity, but it can be sticky in media when the inclusion of other races suddenly becomes a statement about race.  If a number of human enemies had dark skin then a conversation can begin about dark faces of menace, if merchants have a Korean accent suddenly a statement is being made about Korea.  Star Wars had this problem.  Under current conditions skin color is not just hue it can be read as layers of messages and thus thorny for developers.

[DRTJR]

Thedas is old Europe, not America

Alexander Dumas, author of the Three musketeers was "Black." Othello which was written by Shakespeare features a Moore as it's protagonist.

[Statare]

I'm for diversity, but it can be sticky in media when the inclusion of other races suddenly becomes a statement about race.  If a number of human enemies had dark skin then a conversation can begin about dark faces of menace, if merchants have a Korean accent suddenly a statement is being made about Korea.  Star Wars had this problem.  Under current conditions skin color is not just hue it can be read as layers of messages and thus thorny for developers.

 

Why is including more people of color in Thedas a statement about race, but only including European-looking people not? Only depicting Europeans is not a neutral act.