287 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Again, Jade Empire is a counter example to white-predominant stories.  It is NOT a valid argument to say that it has the same problem because it features only one group of people within its fictional setting.  The entire point is that there needs to be more diversity in media, and Jade Example is an example of exactly that, not because of any internal diversity but because it IS a story about PoC in the sea of stories about white people.  I would say the same thing about a gaming story that was featured in a predominantly African or Middle-Eastern setting, and featured such people accordingly.  I don't know how to make it any clearer than that; the idea that those games are examples of the same problem in reverse ignores the foundation of my argument in the first place: that there need to be more stories, not fewer, that don't center around white folks. 

 

So, it's acceptable for a game to have an homogeneous cast so long as it's not white? One is a "problem", but the other is not?

You want more stories centered around non-whites but that does not implicate that stories that are about white people need to have an ethnically diverse cast.

[Nyeredzi]

You got an interesting definition of flowing...and now you're saying that black people cannot have LONG hair?  Oy...

Yep, black people naturally don't have soft flowing hair, that silky hair that goes down. We can have afros... which is the only extend our natural hair can grow long without dreads. Dreads are how our hair can only be allowed to flow down, of which I haven't seen and "black" person in thedas with long hair do.

[Pirate Queen Isabela]

That's interesting. Could you link me to any source, or at least give me an idea of where to find it? I always found Kaidan's name to be hard to place, but I never saw anything Spanish about Ashley. Her name, her looks, her accent seemed all very standard for an American, but then I could be wrong.

 

And I think the problem here is that what I consider "white" or "of colour" may be different from your own definitions. Cultural differences and all that.

 

"After his mother was downwind of a transport crash in Singapore, Kaidan was exposed in utero to element zero and beat the odds, gaining biotic potential instead of terminal brain cancer."

 

The problem is that the writers never specified whether his mother was just passing by Singapore or actually from Singapore, but looking at Kaidan I can safely say he is at least some part Singaporean or atleast brown. 

 

Also, Ashleys writer referred to her as being mix of Caucasian and Hispanic. 

[Mockingword]

 I dont understand why just because a story includes real world problems, it has to exclusively be set in the real world. The goal of doing something like that is to bring life and realism to the fantasy setting in order to draw in and immerse the audience. If realistic issues could only be shown in settings based in our reality then their goes all of fantatasy along with movies and comic books. Thats not a legitimate notion, in order to make your audience believe in the world you're portraying, you have to make the occurences in that world hit home, and nothing does that better than relating lifes issues with that audience 

Well, for starters, if your story is not set in the real world, then it doesn't actually include any "real world" problems.

 

I don't hold to the notion of "realism", or of "immersion". And I don't believe audiences need to be made to "believe" in my world, nor do I expect them to. Because it's very clearly a fake place, and is advertised as such.

 

The vast majority of people are not going to draw the connection between your fantasy world and "real life" issues anyway. If you have some "lesson" you want to impart, you should just teach it directly.

[JadePrince]

So, it's acceptable for a game to have an homogeneous cast so long as it's not white? One is a "problem", but the other is not?

 

 

Yes, because our media is already over-saturated with white-as-default. An all non-white cast would ADD diversity and representation for under-represented people in media. An all-white cast just upholds the status-quo. White people don't NEED more representation. White people are already represented in everything.

[Silfren]

So, it's acceptable for a game to have an homogeneous cast so long as it's not white? One is a "problem", but the other is not?

You want more stories centered around non-whites but that does not implicate that stories that are about white people need to have an ethnically diverse cast.

 

An all-Asian cast is acceptable because it is a counter to the All-White, All-the-Time problem present in the overwhelming majority of stories.  

If you're incapable of grasping why an all-Asian cast is NOT at all the same thing as one more bloody story featuring all-whites, all-the-time, then I don't know how to explain it to you.  

[Nightdragon8]

Honestly I don't give a crap wither or not BW puts more "colors" on the skin of people in the game, Just tired of the tone of people saying that not doing so, is some how "wrong"

 

Thats the crap I want to STOP.

[Mockingword]

I do think it was absolutely wrong of the live action movie to replace Sakka and Katara of The Last Airbender with white versions of them. But as I understand, that movie had a whole host of problems in properly translating the source material to the big screen.

 

But as I said before, I don't think it's fair that it makes stories with white characters inherently bad because there have been so many of them. I think stories should be able to stand on their own merits.

Is it unfair to criticise stories for being derivative generally, or only when it applies to majority white casts?

[Nyeredzi]

What about the aboriginal people in Australia? 

 

Is anyone else getting tired of this whole debate concerning a nonscientific class of categorizing people? 

Believe it or not, those guys are Caucasians, yep more closer to white people than asians or everybody else

 

they just look like black people again cause of their dark skin, (and are called as such because of their primitive African look-alike culture). They are not African

 

They are kind of like Indians

[Gwydden]

"After his mother was downwind of a transport crash in Singapore, Kaidan was exposed in utero to element zero and beat the odds, gaining biotic potential instead of terminal brain cancer."

 

The problem is that the writers never specified whether his mother was just passing by Singapore or actually from Singapore, but looking at Kaidan I can safely say he is at least some part Singaporean or atleast brown. 

 

Also, Ashleys writer referred to her as being mix of Caucasian and Hispanic. 

Last time I checked, Hispanics are Caucasian xD

 

That aside, I thought Kaidan looked vaguely Asian, and so did his name, but I guess I didn't really think it through. Nice to know, thanks 

[Nyeredzi]

I think he meant Rivain consists of dark skinned individuals including "black" people. Same way the middle east does

contradicts

[Silfren]

Believe it or not, those guys are Caucasians, yep more closer to white people than asians or everybody else

 

they just look like black people again cause of their dark skin, (and are called as such because of their primitive African look-alike culture). They are not African

 

They are kind of like Indians

 

You DO realize that there's more to Black than African?

[DRTJR]

So, Jade Empire and Dragon Age are part of the same world? Then, would that mean that Sir Roderick Ponce Von Fontlebottom "the Magnificent Bastard" is a Thedosian?

Maker I hope so!, to meet him before he gets lost in Jade Empire.

[General TSAR]

Honestly I don't give a crap wither or not BW puts more "colors" on the skin of people in the game, Just tired of the tone of people saying that not doing so, is some how "wrong"

 

Thats the crap I want to STOP.

Preach it.

[Pirate Queen Isabela]

Honestly I don't give a crap wither or not BW puts more "colors" on the skin of people in the game, Just tired of the tone of people saying that not doing so, is some how "wrong"

 

Thats the crap I want to STOP.

 

It won't. 

 

It's lazy to have a full cast of middle-aged, heterosexual white people. It's lazy that white people are still catered to and that all the representation PoC get is so limited. You give us PoC, you white wash them later. You give us PoC in concept art, on paper, but the trailer is still that scruffy white man. You give us PoC and then people make white mods to make them "naturally beautiful".

 

It's a joke that should have ended a long time ago but catering to white people is apparently too important. 

[In Exile]

 

 

 

Um, I hope so? Kaidan has Singaporean background and Ashley I believe Spanish?

 

I'm from the Middle-East with Moroccan and Egyptian heritage but that doesn't mean I have to have dark skin for you to know I'm a person of colour. Kaidan and Ash are both obviously Brown, despite everyone thinking they are White. (I never understood that? They don't look White until the third game?)

 

 

Skin colour is weirdly cultural. Because of my skin tone - and hair colour - I get confused for a lot of different things depending on where I am: Spanish/Portuguese in Europe, Mexican/Latino in the US, etc. I can never tell when people are supposed to be "white". 

[Gwydden]

Believe it or not, those guys are Caucasians, yep more closer to white people than asians or everybody else

 

they just look like black people again cause of their dark skin, (and are called as such because of their primitive African look-alike culture). They are not African

 

They are kind of like Indians

Can we please stop arguing semantics? It's pointless and has a tendency to incite flame wars. Let's just drop the issue. If you want to avoid the issue, just say colored, or "non white" people.

[MisterJB]

Yes, because our media is already over-saturated with white-as-default. An all non-white cast would ADD diversity and representation for under-represented people in media. An all-white cast just upholds the status-quo. White people don't NEED more representation. White people are already represented in everything.

Your media and my media are not necessarely the same. But even if I were to accept what you say as true, then it's perfectly possible to give non-whites a larger representation without it having to be done in shows with a white cast for no other reason than we simply can't have an all-white cast. Wanting for there to be shows that center around non-white characters is fine.

However, claiming that shows or games that center and homogeneous white cast is not acceptable is just a double standard.

What you need are games that center around a fantasy Africa or Asia. Not asking for more blacks or asians in fantasy Europe.

[Nyeredzi]

One of the reasons that I wanted to see Rivain is because it's probably the most ethnically and culturally diverse place in the entire continent. The impression I was left with in the lore is that Rivaini are racially varied and diverse because their dark skinned ancestors from the Boeric Ocean migrated to the mainland and mixed with the fair skinned inhabitants over generations.

 

In a Song of Ice and Fire, I was under the impression Dorne was supposed to be full of mixed ethnic groups in a similar fashion as well.

bingo

[Pirate Queen Isabela]

Last time I checked, Hispanics are Caucasian xD

 

That aside, I thought Kaidan looked vaguely Asian, and so did his name, but I guess I didn't really think it through. Nice to know, thanks 

 

I thought Hispanic were a mix of Spanish, Italians, etc who I never considered white, actually. O: 

[AresKeith]

I guess the Northern countries in Thedas don't exist anymore

[Jedi Master of Orion]

And again, like I already stated very clearly, I have neither said nor implied that stories with white characters are inherently bad.  Stop putting words in my mouth.  

 

Obviously I haven't been successfully following your train of thought here, but when you said: "That is what is bad about it: stories told by and about white people dominate the market to the detriment of other stories" that sounded like you meant the solution to white characters' stories saturating the market is not to have them any more.

 

Could you help me understand what you did mean here instead, then?

[Hellion Rex]

I guess the Northern countries in Thedas don't exist anymore

 

huh

[Kaibe]

It won't.

It's lazy to have a full cast of middle-aged, heterosexual white people. It's lazy that white people are still catered to and that all the representation PoC get is so limited. You give us PoC, you white wash them later. You give us PoC in concept art, on paper, but the trailer is still that scruffy white man. You give us PoC and then people make white mods to make them "naturally beautiful".

It's a joke that should have ended a long time ago but catering to white people is apparently too important.

Preach it!

[SerCambria358]

Well, for starters, if your story is not set in the real world, then it doesn't actually include any "real world" problems.

 

I don't hold to the notion of "realism", or of "immersion". And I don't believe audiences need to be made to "believe" in my world, nor do I expect them to. Because it's very clearly a fake place, and is advertised as such.

 

The vast majority of people are not going to draw the connection between your fantasy world and "real life" issues anyway. If you have some "lesson" you want to impart, you should just teach it directly.

You're wrong on all three accounts, a story taking place in another world doesnt deduce that it cannot consist of problems we face in the real world (death, heart break, racism, poverty)

 

Something being fake doesnt conclude that immersion isnt necessary for some players or audiences to become invested in the story being told and the message being said.

 

A vast majority of people do find similarities with their real world issues, its one of the biggest draws for of story telling. Using GoT as an example of that, one of the major reasons GRR Martin recieves such praise is because he creates such realistic and relatable characters, i dont know which audience you consider the "vast majority" because it seems that you're only speaking from your own opinionated ideals. The most iconic stories, most of the time, are stories that hit home.