63 réponses à ce sujet

[Auztin]

What do you mean by active and alive? Are you saying that your player reflex skills should be able to augment the character's lack of blocking skill? So the character can still block even though the character does not have the defensive ability to do so. If that is the case then I would say not what I want. DAO does not force you to play a particular way. I run basically an almost all rogue party in in DAO, I have used all warrior party and almost all mage party

I mean in DA:O I would have to just sit there because there wasn't much to do but wait.Auto attack basically played itself.I found it very boring.In DA2 actually gave me the ability to do the attacking.Look at DCUO gameplay wise uses the same concept but allows player block.In DA:O you need to boost up stats a certain way.I just want the game to feel like it needs to be played instead 1 button is needed to play.I could sit the controller down & go to the bathroom then come back to all enemies are dead.Defense skill could always tell how much DMG is deflected.
Example:Defense-40 = I block guards attack for 100/210.

[Isabelle]

I mean in DA:O I would have to just sit there because there wasn't much to do but wait.Auto attack basically played itself.I found it very boring.In DA2 actually gave me the ability to do the attacking.Look at DCUO gameplay wise uses the same concept but allows player block.In DA:O you need to boost up stats a certain way.I just want the game to feel like it needs to be played instead 1 button is needed to play.I could sit the controller down & go to the bathroom then come back to all enemies are dead.Defense skill could always tell how much DMG is deflected.
Example:Defense-40 = I block guards attack for 100/210.

 

You're right, sometimes I feel boring just pressing the X button, use 2 or 3 skills ... seeing my stamina runs out and my character falling, In DA2 you can combine the skills at the right time of the attack.

 

[MattH]

I feel like the party companions should at least try to dodge/block attacks based on stats, it'd help make combat feel a little more believable (like animations matching weapon weight etc).

[Sylvius the Mad]

I always believed the shield stances that gave a bonus to defense were "blocking mode". It's just that there wasn't any actual blocking animation in the game, so blocked hits are being shown as misses.

That's a good point. We basically already jave an active blocking ability.

[Ghost]

When it happens as a direct result of player intervention.

So games like The Witcher or Elder Scrolls are not RPGs then?

[DumSheeps]

For me, if you want good fluid combat system, with parrying, evasions, fluid and fast yet believable animations and all that good stuff, you must wait for witcher 3. Dragon age is more about team vs team battle, with more emphasis on team work, mixing skills and bigger variety of ways to handle battles. If we talk about melee combat i prefer Witcher, Ranged fights obviously go to Inquisition. Too bad Geralt cant dual wield swords because of the story and lore  and too bad Inquisitor can not too, because Bioware are lazy.

[Jorina Leto]

So games like The Witcher or Elder Scrolls are not RPGs then?

There is a difference between True RPGs und Action RPGs.

Also The Witcher has Autoblock. The Witcher 2 is the one with a blockbutton.

[DumSheeps]

There is a difference between True RPGs und Action RPGs.

Also The Witcher has Autoblock. The Witcher 2 is the one with a blockbutton.

And who decides these differences ? You ? Witcher is more RPG than half the other "RPG's" combined. 20 games like DA2 cant hold a candle to Witcher. 

[Ghost]

There is a difference between True RPGs und Action RPGs.

Also The Witcher has Autoblock. The Witcher 2 is the one with a blockbutton.

The person I replied to stated that any game where you can block is an action game. An RPG can have a block button and still be considered one. Blocking is a small part of what makes up a combat system and stating things like "blocking doesn't belong in RPGs" or "its just an action game now" is entirely silly.

[Wulfram]

I don't think you can realistically have a timing sensitive block without it being an action game.  It might still be an RPG, but you're putting the players reflexes into the heart of the combat system.

[Jorina Leto]

And who decides these differences ? You ? Witcher is more RPG than half the other "RPG's" combined. 20 games like DA2 cant hold a candle to Witcher.

I was just mentioning a difference betweeen The Witcher 1 and The Witcher 2 and not judging the games.


Also the differnce between RPGs and Action RPGs is obvious: Success in true RPGs depends on a (hidden) dice roll. In Action RPGs sucess depends on the player's reflexes.

[Wulfram]

I don't think "True RPG" is a useful way of putting it, it's just liable to cause argument.  May I suggest "traditional" or "tactical"?

[Jorina Leto]

I don't think "True RPG" is a useful way of putting it, it's just liable to cause argument.  May I suggest "traditional" or "tactical"?

Okay, I agree.

[Realmzmaster]

I mean in DA:O I would have to just sit there because there wasn't much to do but wait.Auto attack basically played itself.I found it very boring.In DA2 actually gave me the ability to do the attacking.Look at DCUO gameplay wise uses the same concept but allows player block.In DA:O you need to boost up stats a certain way.I just want the game to feel like it needs to be played instead 1 button is needed to play.I could sit the controller down & go to the bathroom then come back to all enemies are dead.Defense skill could always tell how much DMG is deflected.
Example:Defense-40 = I block guards attack for 100/210.

 

Do you control a party in DCUO or just one character in the party? If only one member in the party then it is like Skyrim or Kingdoms of Amalur as far as the gamer is concerned, because the other members of the party are controlled by someone else. DAO, DA2 allows control of all the party members at the same time. How is it possible to mechanically control one party member to block if all are selected? You would have to relinquish control of the party to direct one character to block.

[Realmzmaster]

I will give an example using Kingdoms of Amalur which I have played. The lockpicking mingame allows the gamer to pick the lock on any locked container regardless of the skill of the character. The gamer can put zero points in lockpicking, have only one lockpick and still pick any locked container. The same with the dispelling minigame. As long as the gamer's reflex skill is fast enough the character can have zero dispelling skill. That shows player reflex skill trumping character skill. IMHO that should not happen.

 

Contrast that with the Blacksmith skill. If the gamer does not keep putting points in the blacksmith skill the character can make only the most rudimentary equipment and nothing higher.

 

Active blocking relies on player reflex skill. The character can have no skill in blocking but as long as the gamer can press the button fast enough the character can block.

[philippe willaume]

well I play the Witcher, NWNol darksoul and they are all RPG,  The difference is that in those I only have to control a single character.

The point of having a party based game is so that you can use your party members in a coordinated fashion.

 

it is possible to have the game working more like a flight simulator, IE have a tactical set up  before the action starts and then only controlling a single char and issuing verbal commands (that could be associated with complex tactics). but short of something like that you will have to move form one chart to the other to get the tactical co-ordination you want.

 

Like  Realmzmaster the tricky part with player action vs characters action is that it easily breaks the game rule set, even more so when it is a class and level based game

Phil

[metatheurgist]

The person I replied to stated that any game where you can block is an action game. An RPG can have a block button and still be considered one. Blocking is a small part of what makes up a combat system and stating things like "blocking doesn't belong in RPGs" or "its just an action game now" is entirely silly.

Blocking is fine in an RPG, as long as the character does it and not the player. When a player does it, it's an action game. Otherwise why have a Dex score? Why have a Defense skill? Just let the player do it. Use the player's reflexes, use the player's gaming skill. Let the player take the action and make it "alive and interesting".
 
There's no end to the possibilities. Why use a Str stat? Controllers are analog, just make the strength of the strike based on how hard you can press the button. Why should character speed depend on Str, Dex and Load? Surely if I can waggle my stick fast enough the character should move faster? Why have levels and icons for spells or an Int stat? They should be button combos so skilful people can cast spells by pulling a left, half circle and X+Y from memory. We can remove the Con stat by wiring up a electric shocker to the console and shock the player when they take damage, ****** with low endurance lose when they pass out!

There's no need for every game to be an action game, there are already plenty of action games.

That's just my position, I accept that other people don't think the same way. I'll not debate it since that's a sure way of disappearing down a rabbit hole. 

[tmp7704]

I mean in DA:O I would have to just sit there because there wasn't much to do but wait.Auto attack basically played itself.I found it very boring.In DA2 actually gave me the ability to do the attacking.

Funny, I had my fun and hands full in DAO cycling between all party characters and coordinating their attack skills with a helpful dose of pauses here and there in-between. While you could indeed "just sit there" while people auto-attacked and yes, I imagine it'd be quite boring, by no means it was something you had to do.

[In Exile]

Funny, I had my fun and hands full in DAO cycling between all party characters and coordinating their attack skills with a helpful dose of pauses here and there in-between. While you could indeed "just sit there" while people auto-attacked and yes, I imagine it'd be quite boring, by no means it was something you had to do.

 

And if you played it on any worthwhile difficulty, that'd be a good way to die in extensive, creative and comical ways. 

[tmp7704]

And if you played it on any worthwhile difficulty, that'd be a good way to die in extensive, creative and comical ways.

Played it on Hard, without using potions and the DLC items to bring the difficulty where I wanted without the tedium of "hardbore". So, nope.

It's the funny thing with about min-maxing -- people who are into it are quick to convince themselves that the way they figure out as the most optimal to play is the only feasible way to play. Which is rarely, if ever, true.

[In Exile]

Played it on Hard, without using potions and the DLC items to bring the difficulty where I wanted without the tedium of "hardbore". So, nope.

It's the funny thing with about min-maxing -- people who are into it are quick to convince themselves that the way they figure out as the most optimal to play is the only feasible way to play. Which is rarely, if ever, true.

 

Umm.. what? I played DA:O the same way you did. I'm saying that people who"just sit there" while people auto-attacked." would die in comical ways. 

[Exaltation]

It looks more like "hack&slash",can see the Inquisitor also jumping and dodging.

Hope they make a more detailed combat video demo.

[Isabelle]

I don't know ... auto-blocking or blocking mode,never seem to work, characters it should be more ''tank'' continues receiving hits, even with damage reduction from armor and shields, at least the manual blocking will give a more real security.

[tmp7704]

Umm.. what? I played DA:O the same way you did. I'm saying that people who"just sit there" while people auto-attacked[/size].[/size]" would die in comical ways. 

D'oh! Sorry, I kept in mind your posting style can be sarcastic, so I totally read that as if you meant the opposite. My bad

[fchopin]

There was auto blocking in DAO, a rogue could get the ability to block.