59 réponses à ce sujet

[Wugger]

Sorry for a slightly inflamatory title, and also apologies if this is the wrong forum for this.

 

Inquisition isn't too far away, and it looks gorgeous, gameplay sounds fun too, and it can't possibly be worse than DA:2, so I say bring it on!

 

That isn't to say, however, that I'm not a little worried. Bioware has always had good writing, and though DA2 and notable ME3 were a step back, they were still among the best that was around at the time.

 

I'm starting to feel, however, that more and more that's changing. I played through The Last of Us recently, and the emotional and thematic complexity was leagues and leagues ahead of anything Bioware has made pretty much ever. Recent Telltale games, too, like The Wolf Among Us & the two Walking Dead games are much much superior in terms of making choices that feel like they matter, and ones that seem far more difficult and grounded. And with all this stuff on the horizion too, things look even bleaker for Inquisition. Not only do we have what looks set to be a staggering achievement in The Witcher 3, but the return of the isometric rpg via Kickstarter shows tons of games coming soon that harken back to Bioware's glory days, and might even outstrip it. I've already the played the first of these offers, The Banner Saga, and Shadowrun Returns, and personally found them both better than anything Bioware has made since the first Mass Effect.

 

Inquisition looks fun, but from what I've seen of the story in trailers so far...also kind of passe. I am sure the voice acting will be top notch, and I'm sure it'll have some damn fine dialogue too, but will it be enough to compete with all these other games we see coming out? I mean, am I going to be able to care about yet another generic supernatural foe when I think about the baggage of games like The Walking Dead and The Last of Us. I mean, the Inquisition itself, another 'elite gang', are we just going to end up with Wardens 2.0, and do you believe Bioware is going to do anything new or dangerous with it, or just tell the same old goofy high fantasy story we've seen 100 times? They've been burned by DA2, and ME3, and I'm worried that means they're going to play it really safe. Basically, I'm worried that, story-wise, where it really matters imo, Bioware have found themselves slipping before increasing competition. What do you guys think?

[Abraham_uk]

Bioware is still a powerhouse when it comes to characters and interacting with characters.

Bioware games are also great for player customisation in combat, character appearance and in story choices.

 

I can't see Bioware games becoming irrelevant any time soon.

[In Exile]

Last of Us is so far removed from what Bioware does, that the fact that it somehow has a good story is basically irrelevant as pushing on Bioware's niche. Ignoring the genre completely, you have a fixed genre scripted protagonist with absolutely no input or choice into the story. Avoiding discussion the substantive merits of that story (which I think was greatly, greatly overrated), you can't compare a game that's basically identical in input and character creation to Devil May Cry to an RPG. 

 

I, personally, will never even touch something like Walking Dead because it's post apocalyptic zombie. That's a genre I have not just zero interest in, but actual disdain for because it wastes developer's time with a genre I hate. 

 

As for these so-called kickstarter RPGs, right now they're all create-your-own party games, basically, that look like throwbacks to Icewind Dale. 

 

If we're talking solely about story quality, then Bioware's stories have never been that "great" and most of these heralded new games aren't that good. Aside from TW2, IMO, but that's just more of a class on its own. Bioware's lived in the super blockbuster story world. 

[EkhidnaDrakaina]

Not sure OP, I think it sort of goes from Gamer to Gamer and depends on what their expectations are. Having not played the other games you mentioned, I think I will be pretty enthralled with whatever Bioware delivers. I only planned for two game purchases this year and Inquisition was one of them.

But to answer your question from my POV, even if Inquisition bombed by the standards of more serious gamers (which based on what we've seen I don't expect it to do that badly) it'll just be more feedback for the next game. I think they learned a lot from DA2 and went far and beyond to make serious improvements.

[General TSAR]

Bioware is still a powerhouse when it comes to characters and interacting with characters.

Bioware games are also great for player customisation in combat, character appearance and in story choices.

 

I can't see Bioware games becoming irrelevant any time soon.

Agreed, and they still retain a large and very passionate fanbase.

[Abraham_uk]

I think if you're going to compare Dragon Age to other games, try Western RPG's.

 

 

Witcher series (which you mentioned) is a good example.

 

 

 

I'm not sure if anyone knows for sure if Bioware is going to remain relevant.

Relevance is hard to quantify, hard to predict and hard to even measure.

 

The only thing I can say is that Bioware still makes money for EA.

This is not a signifier of how popular Bioware is.

This is not a signifier of how good Bioware's games are.

 

Ultimately in business, relevancy and making money are one and the same.

In terms of public opinion, relevancy is really complicated and hard to gauge.

 

 

Also really well crafted games can be "irrelevant", whilst generic trash can be pop culture icons.

We people follow our own individual interests. Yes those interests can be influenced by public opinion.

We don't so much follow one person's views on what is and isn't relevant.

[Ymirr]

One thing I learned from playing Borderlands 1, a game can be great without much of a good story. What I learned from Borderlands 2, a game that is fun AND has a good story/characters can have all my money. I would not touch a game with good story and boring game-play.

 

Witcher 2 is one of the greatest games I've played. It had so much, so much I love and with a story and presentation I've never seen in a game before. But it isn't the one I think is the most fun.

 

Bioware's games I tend to compare to animation, if comparing games to a movie genre. Fun characters, fun and not too heavy story, and very entertaining. My only problem with DA2 was the heavy reuse of areas, visually bored. I don't see that happening again, and am not the least worried about Inquisition.

[mybudgee]

No

[Abraham_uk]

Anyone on this forum who doesn't say "yes" is probably lying to themselves

 

How about "I don't know"?

Which really is the only honest answer one can give.

 

The premise of the opening post just doesn't lend itself well to a satisfying "yes" or "no" type answer.

 

More of a "maybe yes" or "maybe no" type answer.

 

 

 

 

Never mind the fact that one cannot quantify relevance (relevance being highly subjective).

The question requires future information about the video game market which none of us have.

It also requires a long term future point of view which none of us have.

 

Will Dragon Age deliver the goods?

What bout the other franchises?

 

Will Witcher 3 be any good?

Will future sequels of The Wolf Among Us and Walking Dead be any good?

Will sequels of The Last of Us be any good?

Will future kick starter games be any good?

 

 

Also "any good" is subjective.

 

 

There are too many things to take into account.

The premise is not based on one subjective variable. It is based on loads of subjective variables, and requires speculation into the future.

 

 

 

In short: we just don't know.

[TheChris92]

The notion that games like the Last of Us suddenly has to represent everything about the game industry is a foolish one. What is even more foolish is the assumption that The Last of Us is the first game to engage the player on the emotional level, as well as providing complexity to its narrative. Sure, you'll find a lot of games trying to catch the whole Dark Souls fad, all of which essentially mimicks that franchise' combat mechanics, just like with Batman Arkham Asylum in terms of stealth games. I would be lying if I said that certain genres haven't declined in quality, like horror or stealth games, all because they need to appeal to the mass market and thus be dumped down as a result. This is natural -- at some point a developer will come with the next big thing and a certain amount of AA developers are gonna hop on that train. The gaming industry is big though and I think it's important to remember this. BioWare games will stay relevant for as long as people keep buying them and playing them for their content. 

[Al Foley]

The way I look at it, and others have stated similar lines, all games have their niches and their draws to them.  The way I look at it, Mass Effect is the best game for characters I play ME for its characters and the interactions with characters.  Though sometimes I prefer the way DA handles their characters I get along with and connect with the characters of Mass Effect much more strongly.  I play Bioshock games for their plot and their plot twists.  I play Dragon Age for Thedas, the setting, the lore, the politics, and the religious commentary found in the Chantry.  Games aren't just a one all be all proposition, and while they are very expensive so usually you can't just go out and get every game imaginable at a time, different games apply to different tastes.  I might pop in a COD game or a Sports game if I want a mindless bit of entertainment or some fluff.  Haven't in a while though.  But the point is different games apply to different tastes within each of us.  I don't see how that can make BioWare irrelevant any time soon. 

[Nohvarr]

The Witcher (for me) shoots itself in the foot by using a character with such an extensive history (Geralt) in the universe. I can't alter his look in ways I want, I can't imagine a background more inline with how I want to RP him (his story is set down in the books), and he loves people I've never met (Yennifer). With the Witcher I feel like I'm playing a fusion of God of War/Legend of Zelda. It's not bad per se but I'm just not invested as I am in Bioware games.

 

In fact Deus Ex:HR did a better job of getting me invested in the characters/setting and that has some of the same problems as the Witcher series.

 

As for the Kickstarter games...Torment has already angered a portion of it's fanbase by going with Turn Based combat to the point where at least one person was asking for some of their money back and they are nowhere near release. Shadowrun Returns was good fun but is no threat to Bioware. Pillars has potential but so far I don't see it raking in a lot of cash and praise. Enough to justify a sequel perhaps but nothing like what DA: O and ME series have accomplished.

 

So no, I don't think things are as bad as the OP.

[Liamv2]

One thing bioware has always been amazing at is world building (something which I adore) and characters and that's the big advantage it has over all those other games. You feel like you're making a difference to a living breathing world with characters you actually care about even if the plot tends to be kinda generic.

[Caja]

OP, I beg to differ. First of all, many of the decisions in The Walking Dead didn’t matter that much in terms of the story. (I have only played S1 so I don’t know how S2 turns out). I haven’t played most of the other games you have mentioned, but I played a few adventure games that were funded via Kickstarter. They were low budget productions (not that there is something wrong with it). But BioWare makes blockbuster games. And as Abraham_uk has mentioned BioWare has a strong focus on characters and interaction with characters. Other games don’t have that to such an extent, apart from The Witcher maybe. And even there you don’t always have a party. I also agree with EkhidnaDrakaina: I believe that BioWare has learned from DA2 and I am confident that they made improvements.

 

That said I am curious why you think that the story of “Inquisition” might be “passé” just based on the trailer. A couple of days ago I did a little research about DAI and honestly, we still know very little about it. So, I am always a bit amazed about the concerns of some people here on the forum (and please don’t take that as an offence). There doesn’t seem to be a reason for being concerned. At least not at the moment. We don’t have enough details about the game. However, personally I am looking forward to it. The risks that DAI might be disappointing in some way are the same as for any other game.

[Nightdragon8]

Honestly, I didn't mind DA2, It was a decent enough story. Yes it had some serious flaws, that by the time you play it a second time you could tell that a ton of the maps where exactly the same just that some doors where blocked off literally by a block of concrete, I mean they left int he door frames in one cave it was just bad.. seriously.

 

But the story was passable and yes it wasn't DA:O 2. It honestly felt more like a spin-off i dunno, I think DA2 had more planned and if anything may show its relivence in DA:I

 

ME3, honestly 99% of the story was great, I mean 10/10 kind of stuff, Just crashed and burned the last 5 mins.. just the pace was way too fast. Had way too much to diguest int he last 5 mins of the game to really grasp everything.

 

As for stuff on kickstarter, yea there are some intresting ideas but until they accutly come out, we really can't say one way or another it may just be a dream sort of thing

 

BW has great stories and there quality is good. Yes some of there stories are questionable at times but nothing I would say that feel flat on its face. ME3 ending did do that. However ME3's saving grace was that 99% of the rest of the story was good. It was only after the ending of ME3 that the "suspension of disbelief" broke and the rest of the story ended up getting picked apart.

 

The problem with DA2, was that it seems as if its "Part of a story" sort of like any series of books that are multiple books, while that arc of the story is done, its has not been fully told yet. While with DA:O honestly it was a full and complete story, and in reality if DA2 had not have come out, would and still is considered a stand alone game.

 

Which is why maybe DA2 "failed" in that it seems the story wasn't fully told. Or is just part of a larger story. I mean in reality, Why was Hawke important at all? I mean a refugee finding a way to make money to get out of the slums is a great, 'rags to riches' story but, how does events in DA2 apply to everything else?

 

Well now with the whole "red templar" we see that Hawkes discovery of red lyrium, has caused a faction to grow and threaten the status quo of the known world.

 

Here is the issue, did this warent the making of a game like DA2 just for us to be given this piece of infomation. I would have to say, yes it does, because of the fact that, its a new source of power in a world of magic. Its a substance which can make 'common folk' magic powers at a cost. So really at this point you can justify DA2 being what it was to show that red lyrium is seriously bad, but now has upset the balance of the world.

[slimgrin]

If DA:I isn't good I can see them abandoning the franchise. EA isn't going to fund IPs that don't deliver.

[Shadow Fox]

Yes.

[Cyonan]

Of course they're going to stay relevant.

 

They're not going to be one developer on a very short list that actually has solid writing in their games anymore, but they're still going to be relevant.

 

and that's a good thing to have. People aren't going to stop playing BioWare games just because there are a couple more games with good writing out now. It just means they'll have more games to play.

[Khayness]

Anyone on this forum who doesn't say "yes" is probably lying to themselves

 

I'm only here for the offtopic, I don't even venture into other sections since the new forum engine kicked off. The Dragon Age forums are being patrolled by the Social Justice League and people who should honestly play dating sims. The Mass Effect section is MP mostly.

 

The Inquisition stuff so far looks good, but I've followed the marketing of ME2 and DA2 from in-the-works rumors to launch trailers, so colour me unconvinced. BioWare mostly matters to those who are used to gender customisation and party focus in RPGs, things I don't see as selling points, considering I've been playing all kinds of RPGs for decades now. I await Divinity: Original Sin a lot more, and I will probably pick up Bound by Flame once its price drops a bit, I don't have problems with quirky RPGs.

[SlottsMachine]

Anyone on this forum who doesn't say "yes" is probably lying to themselves

 

Don't forget the crazies, technically that would not be lying to one's self. 

[Wugger]

Some really good interesting points here.

 

Somebody asked why I felt the story looked passe, and to be fair I hope i'm proved wrong, I guess what I mean is it just doesn't seem to be pushing any boundaries.

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting Bioware is going to collapse, or even do poorly. However, I am begining to wonder if Bioware will ever produce an important game again if you get my meaning. You look at the infulence things that Bioshock or Dark Souls had, really pushing the boundaries of what people expect from games. Even stuff like Skyrim, heck Bioware have admitted themselves they are in many ways inspired by Skyrim (though I'm not arguing Skyrim had a good story, it was infulential in other ways)

 

Getting back to the story discussion, what I worry about Inquisition is it will just be sort of...more of the same I suppose. I feel like after playing games like the Last of Us (which people have correctly pointed out is very different indeed) I'm going to play Inqusition and feel a bit...well...meh. Like Bioware aren't really trying to do or say anything new with their story. Just have a few of the same old archetypes gallivanting around fighting another world-threatening menace.

[SlottsMachine]

Bioware will still be relevant within the industry even if they no longer are for you personally. They are still the best game in town if you want lots of character interactions, other companies (ie. Obsidian) do a good job but they just don't pour the shear amount of resources into it. I'll leave the quality/quantity debate for someone else, not touching that myself. 

[Khayness]

Getting back to the story discussion, what I worry about Inquisition is it will just be sort of...more of the same I suppose. I feel like after playing games like the Last of Us (which people have correctly pointed out is very different indeed) I'm going to play Inqusition and feel a bit...well...meh. Like Bioware aren't really trying to do or say anything new with their story. Just have a few of the same old archetypes gallivanting around fighting another world-threatening menace.

 

After reading some interviews, it seems they are convinced DA2 wasn't well recieved because they tried something new with the story. Rushed and having its corners cut didn't even cross their minds. Although that's just the PR speaking, nobody is going to tell that to the press.