103 réponses à ce sujet

[von uber]

I agree. A mission on Thessia (or Palaven); or either as hubs before they are destroyed, would've made them matter more. They missed an oppurtunity to allow us to see the other races home planets and culture and make us care more.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

In ME3, for better or for worse, I kinda like it, Shepard becomes a bit less of a blank, and I mean blank, canvas. S/he gets more emotions, than in previous games. 

Sure, they failed in making us really care about it, but Shepard's reaction makes more sense. 

[Sir DeLoria]

In-universe context, Thessia falling is a bit like New York or London being destroyed, but much bigger. 
Not only is it the center of the galactic economy, but is a symbol, from the codex, as "the crown jewel of the galaxy."
Just wanted to point that out.

Sure, but what's the big difference between the attack on Palaven and Earth and the attack on Thessia? For one each Palaven and Earth have a far greater population and Shep would be much more emotionally invested in Earth. Wether Thessia is truly the center of all galactic economy is heavily debatable and the "crown jewel of the galaxy" remark is bland hyperbole. From what we got to see, Thessia wasn't very pretty or interesting actually.

[Bob from Accounting]

'Add a hub' is about the lamest suggestion I've heard to supposedly make players 'care' about an area.

 

I did go back and read some old threads about Omega. Seems much of this section of the forum was just as convinced that adding a hub was somehow the magic solution to turning Omega into a great DLC.

[von uber]

'Add a hub' is about the lamest suggestion I've heard to supposedly make players 'care' about an area.

 

Add a hub where you can meet people and do minor side missions and investigations into their culture is a lame idea? What would you suggest?

[ImaginaryMatter]

'Add a hub' is about the lamest suggestion I've heard to supposedly make players 'care' about an area.

 

I did go back and read some old threads about Omega. Seems much of this section of the forum was just as convinced that adding a hub was somehow the magic solution to turning Omega into a great DLC.

 

This comment is about the lamest thing I've heard.

 

Hubs generally allow players to get a more personal attachment to places. One million video game deaths doesn't really effect people emotionally, but give the player a little bit of personal drama can generate that emotional connection and hubs provide a pool of such stories. Plus, they allow a little before and after.

[Bob from Accounting]

Yes. Adding a hub where you can meet people and do minor side missions and investigations into their culture is an incredibly lame idea. It may surprise you to learn that stories actually have to be built on something. On concepts, on themes, and on content. Having a hub just to have a hub and give player fetch quests is a terrible idea.

 

Now, if you actually have a central plot on Thessia before the battle, that's different. But of course, it's the plot that actually doing the heavy lifting, not a bunch of trivial side quests and minor characters.

[von uber]

So by your point all of the side missions and info in me1 on the citadel was lame?

[General TSAR]

I would say: "You've condemned galactic civilization with your hesitance and secrecy, if we win this war, there will be a day of reckoning for the Asari Republics."

 

Then after the war, the remnants of the Asari Leadership will be assassinated and their economic assets will be seized.

[cap and gown]

I understand people's problems with the post-Thessia content. I don't share a number of them, but I can understand. More than post-Thessia, though, what annoys me is the post-Virmire music. I want to go chat up the crew, but this stupid piano music is on a continuous loop try to give me all these feels about losing Ashley/Kaidan. I got it, OK? Enough! Let me go talk to the crew in peace without beating me over the head that I'm supposed to feel awful right now. Gawd I am so tired of that stupid piano music!

[Bob from Accounting]

I have to say, this is a concept that continually seems to elude most posters on this forum. The plain and simple idea that things in a story actually have to have content and themes tied to them. That stories actually need a plot.

 

There seems to be very few people that grasp the notion that you cannot just bring a character into a story and have them be awesome. That you actually have to write out an arc and themes for them. That you cannot bring a the player to a certain location and have it be the best thing ever just by magic. That you actually have to have something happen. You actually have to have the player character doing something. That having the Reapers defeated by a super-duper technology or super-duper weapon, regardless of how sensible it may be in-universe (and it never has, by the way) is repulsive storytelling because it's thematically void and pointless.

 

Yet it seems most people on this forum are utterly convinced that all you have to do is put their favorite characters on the ship, make Palavan or whatever a mission, and give Shepard some magic weapon, and boom, you've got an instant 11/10 story.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Yes. Adding a hub where you can meet people and do minor side missions and investigations into their culture is an incredibly lame idea. It may surprise you to learn that stories actually have to be built on something. On concepts, on themes, and on content. Having a hub just to have a hub and give player fetch quests is a terrible idea.

 

Now, if you actually have a central plot on Thessia before the battle, that's different. But of course, it's the plot that actually doing the heavy lifting, not a bunch of trivial side quests and minor characters.

 

People aren't particularly moved by concepts and themes.

[Bob from Accounting]

People aren't particularly moved by concepts and themes.

 

Really?

 

What exactly is it that you think stories are built on? Explosions? Fistfights?

[ImaginaryMatter]

I have to say, this is a concept that continually seems to elude most posters on this forum. The plain and simple idea that things in a story actually have to have content and themes tied to them. That stories actually need a plot.

 

There seems to be very few people that grasp the notion that you cannot just bring a character into a story and have them be awesome. That you actually have to write out an arc and themes for them. That you cannot bring a the player to a certain location and have it be the best thing ever just by magic. That you actually have to have something happen. You actually have to have the player character doing something. That having the Reapers defeated by a super-duper technology or super-duper weapon, regardless of how sensible it may be in-universe (and it never has, by the way) is repulsive storytelling because it's thematically void and pointless.

 

Well, yah. Most of us don't have connection to your brain or where you come up with your personal theories to how everything works. So, we are in the dark about that.

 

Luckily, your narrow views on things are far from universal. So, scoff on David.

[wolfhowwl]

Dammit.

 

I knew taking him off my ignore list was a mistake.

[General TSAR]

I understand people's problems with the post-Thessia content. I don't share a number of them, but I can understand. More than post-Thessia, though, what annoys me is the post-Virmire music. I want to go chat up the crew, but this stupid piano music is on a continuous loop try to give me all these feels about losing Ashley/Kaidan. I got it, OK? Enough! Let me go talk to the crew in peace without beating me over the head that I'm supposed to feel awful right now. Gawd I am so tired of that stupid piano music!

Same thing happened in Mass Effect 1 where the Love Theme kicked in at the debriefing and will stay with you until you hit the galaxy map, though I didn't mind too much as that is one awesome track. 

[ImaginaryMatter]

Really?

 

What exactly is it that you think stories are built on? Explosions? Fistfights?

 

None of those. But we seem to be reaching the point in the thread when you start the straw making process.

[Bob from Accounting]

Is this forum at the point of debating me that stories in fact do not need a plot? That characters don't need arcs and themes tied to them to be interesting?

[ImaginaryMatter]

Dammit.

 

I knew taking him off my ignore list was a mistake.

 

There's an ignore list?

[ImaginaryMatter]

Is this forum at the point of debating me that stories in fact do not need a plot?

 

And. We're. There.

[Ryriena]

I'm sorry that your government failed to notify us sooner, so it's y'all fault that your military lost.

[DeinonSlayer]

Is this forum at the point of debating me that stories in fact do not need a plot? That characters don't need arcs and themes tied to them to be interesting?

You're the only one assigning this position to anyone else. I don't see anyone cheering the fact that Ashley spends the second half of the game sitting in the observation deck without interacting with anyone or having anything to say. Seems to me this is just another one of those episodes where you assume you're surrounded by idiots and announce as such everywhere you go.

[Bob from Accounting]

That we are, apparently, if we don't understand why slapping a hub world somewhere without tying it to any actual plot or theme whatsoever and thinking it's going to produce cares and feels is a bad idea.

[Sir DeLoria]

Is this forum at the point of debating me that stories in fact do not need a plot? That characters don't need arcs and themes tied to them to be interesting?

No one ever proposed any of that. You're either terrible at making strawman arguments or semi-illiterate. Or both.

[Bob from Accounting]

You're the only one assigning this position to anyone else. I don't see anyone cheering the fact that Ashley spends the second half of the game sitting in the observation deck without interacting with anyone or having anything to say. Seems to me this is just another one of those episodes where you assume you're surrounded by idiots and announce as such everywhere you go.

 

Well then, we have to ask ourselves why exactly...well...pretty much every suggestion on this forum is exactly that, don't we?

 

Unless you can point me to a 'Character X should have been on the ship' complaint that has something resembling an arc with it? And please, for the love of God, no 'Miranda feels guilty over Cerberus.'

 

Or perhaps a Reaper solution suggestion that's more than 'Thematically pointless ability/weapon/technology is used to kill all the Reapers?'

 

Or a suggestion of where Shepard could have gone that includes a plot? An established conflict, characters which develop and reinforce that conflict, a climax, and a resolution? I'll say that again in bold for you. An established conflict, characters which develop and reinforce that conflict, a climax, and a resolution?

 

Anything remotely of the sort?