Merrill never really broke any rules of the Dalish unless you romance her. She was just disobeying her Keeper's wishes but still following her mandate as a First.
But yeah, hopefully they leave the backstories vague enough for people to have their own ideas.
True, my wording was a bit off, sorry!
Also out of curiosity, wasn't Marethari at the end the one who struck a deal with a demon?
Mmm, I mainly was thinking about backstory. Merrill was a rule breaker, went against traditions, everything. As a player character, you can craft your character to what you want, but your Origin is already set in stone and they said we won't be able to play it. We don't know if we even get the choice for our character to be born in the city then decided to join the Dalish, but City elf can come from anywhere and everywhere. Even Surana can choose if she was born in an alienage or not. I'm still gonna headcanon my Inquisitor (she is gonna be Dalish) to be somewhere from a city but we don't know how much we can customize where our Dalish comes from and was raised, you know?
I doubt you will get much of an option on custimization on your backstory. Honestly I just expect the game to sort of begin. You are a Dalish, that is the only backstory that will be provided leaving you to toy with it in your head at your leisure. And we have seen plenty of Dalish move from the clans into the cities and vice versa.
True, my wording was a bit off, sorry!
Also out of curiosity, wasn't Marethari at the end the one who struck a deal with a demon?
Yes, she let herself be possessed so Merrill would not be.
Merrill never really broke any rules of the Dalish unless you romance her. She was just disobeying her Keeper's wishes but still following her mandate as a First.
She was ostracized and effectively exiled- you don't get that by following the rules and norms of society. That the Dalish don't have the sort of laws and punishments in the first place to apply here doesn't really challenge the concept of social norms and expectations.
Merrill was a pariah because she was breaking the rules of Dalish society. Which, yes, include disobeying the Keeper.
She was ostracized and effectively exiled- you don't get that by following the rules and norms of society. That the Dalish don't have the sort of laws and punishments in the first place to apply here doesn't really challenge the concept of social norms and expectations.
Merrill was a pariah because she was breaking the rules of Dalish society. Which, yes, include disobeying the Keeper.
All she had to do was abandon the Eluvian. That is the most lax ostracizing I've ever seen.
And she was fulfilling her mandate as a future Keeper. Mathariel was the one if anyone who was breaking Dalish code of conduct by not wanting part of their history restored.
Restoring their history is not a legal "rule" that all Dalish are forced to follow. I'd say Merrill was closer to breaking rules by constantly treating with demons to gain knowledge or information she wanted about the past and other stuff.
All she had to do was abandon the Eluvian. That is the most lax ostracizing I've ever seen.
And she was fulfilling her mandate as a future Keeper. Mathariel was the one if anyone who was breaking Dalish code of conduct by not wanting part of their history restored.
Maybe she knew the truth about their history lol 
All she had to do was abandon the Eluvian. That is the most lax ostracizing I've ever seen.
Marethari might have let her back if only she abandoned the Eluvian, but that probably wouldn't have done much to restore the popularity of Keeper's Pet. We are talking about a pariah so despised that non-cowardly Dalish would rather run towards danger than accept her help. That's pretty extreme social ostracizing.
And she was fulfilling her mandate as a future Keeper. Mathariel was the one if anyone who was breaking Dalish code of conduct by not wanting part of their history restored.
The mandate isn't unlimited, nor does it excuse recklessness. In pursuing it as she was to the point of exile, she was already abandoning any expectation of being a future Keeper.
Merrill's pride and messiah complex aside, the Dalish have their own limits on what they will accept and condone in the name of getting their history restored. Merrill passed them by some time ago in her obsession.
Mmm, I mainly was thinking about backstory. Merrill was a rule breaker, went against traditions, everything. As a player character, you can craft your character to what you want, but your Origin is already set in stone and they said we won't be able to play it. We don't know if we even get the choice for our character to be born in the city then decided to join the Dalish, but City elf can come from anywhere and everywhere. Even Surana can choose if she was born in an alienage or not. I'm still gonna headcanon my Inquisitor (she is gonna be Dalish) to be somewhere from a city but we don't know how much we can customize where our Dalish comes from and was raised, you know?
Merrill was fully dedicated to what the Dalish stood for as a culture. In fact, she left because she was, if anything, radically Dalish: she wanted to recapture their past lore almost at any cost.
If there's support in-game for a Dalish PC who was originally from a city, left that life to shack up with the Dalish, but then realized their beliefs were no better than what she left behind, I could tolerate playing a dalish instead of a CE.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Yeah, it was a little weird in DAO when some options were like "Maker's breath, .... " Or some of the counter arguments with Leliana where you defend the chantry, as a dwarf or elf.
I don't make a deal out of it. It's just funny. I understand they couldn't tweak everything.
On a sidenote (but it kind of applies to general "cultural" dialogue), I'm a little more annoyed that our characters just get more noticed from their general title than their origins. One thing I don't think Bioware realizes is that their world..the cultures and such.. is far more compelling than the general "hero's path" one embarks on. It's annoying being a Dwarf Noble coming back to Orzammmar and getting referred to as "The Grey Warden" in the Provings, for example. There's some dwarf specific dialogue, but not enough. I'd like to tell them that being a Grey Warden sucks. Being a Dalish or Aeducan or from the Cousland family is cool as hell though.
Hawke is different. He or she has down to earth family ties.. I like that.
Mmm, I mainly was thinking about backstory. Merrill was a rule breaker, went against traditions, everything. As a player character, you can craft your character to what you want, but your Origin is already set in stone and they said we won't be able to play it. We don't know if we even get the choice for our character to be born in the city then decided to join the Dalish, but City elf can come from anywhere and everywhere. Even Surana can choose if she was born in an alienage or not. I'm still gonna headcanon my Inquisitor (she is gonna be Dalish) to be somewhere from a city but we don't know how much we can customize where our Dalish comes from and was raised, you know?
I expect something more akin to the ME backstories, truth be told. A bit of information, to give you an idea of why you are here, and then an objective in the introduction mission.
However, ME backstories are not The Elder Scrolls blank characters. Headcanon can go so far. For example, using the example you have mentioned, you may headcanon that your Dalish Inquisitor came from a city... then to have your very Dalish parents send you a letter from Clan Whatever asking you how things are going in your new job, or your Keeper remembering teaching you as a toddler, or your childhood friends from the clan turning up, etc. It's like when Spacer Shepard called his or her mother in a mission or the member of the anti-alien gang asked Earthborn Shepard for help.
Merrill's pride and messiah complex aside, the Dalish have their own limits on what they will accept and condone in the name of getting their history restored. Merrill passed them by some time ago in her obsession.
I'm not so sure the Dalish agree even on those limits. The clan from TME was doing almost exactly the same thing as Merrill. Even worse, because they summoned the demon instead of just coming across it.
I plan on basically making a Dalish Elf version of Toph from Avatar: someone who doesn't like all the rules of the Dalish and how it confines them, especially as a mage.
I ever have a slogan for that character.
Tophquisitor would be awesome. And that attitude would make sense for a rebellious First.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I'm not so sure the Dalish agree even on those limits. The clan from TME was doing almost exactly the same thing as Merrill. Even worse, because they summoned the demon instead of just coming across it.
Marethari's clan is different because of Duncan's influence.
Not even Tamlen missing and Mahariel getting sick was enough to stop her from investigating the mirror herself. That all changed with Duncan.
Yeah, it was a little weird in DAO when some options were like "Maker's breath, .... " Or some of the counter arguments with Leliana where you defend the chantry, as a dwarf or elf.
I don't make a deal out of it. It's just funny. I understand they couldn't tweak everything.
On a sidenote (but it kind of applies to general "cultural" dialogue), I'm a little more annoyed that our characters just get more noticed from their general title than their origins. One thing I don't think Bioware realizes is that their world..the cultures and such.. is far more compelling than the general "hero's path" one embarks on. It's annoying being a Dwarf Noble coming back to Orzammmar and getting referred to as "The Grey Warden" in the Provings, for example. There's some dwarf specific dialogue, but not enough. I'd like to tell them that being a Grey Warden sucks. Being a Dalish or Aeducan or from the Cousland family is cool as hell though.
Hawke is different. He or she has down to earth family ties.. I like that.
Why can't a Dwarf or Elf invoke the name of the Maker or praise the Chantry from time to time? Even if they don't believe in Andrastianism. And if they don't then the options are not usually, in my experience, something you have to do to advance the plot. Though honestly that is one of the benefits of DA Os dialog system I imagine my decidedly ambivalent Dalish Elf Rogue who I am finishing Awakening with right now every time she says something along the lines of "Praise the Maker!" She is just being realllllly sarcastic about it.
Yeah, it was a little weird in DAO when some options were like "Maker's breath, .... " Or some of the counter arguments with Leliana where you defend the chantry, as a dwarf or elf.
I don't make a deal out of it. It's just funny. I understand they couldn't tweak everything.
On a sidenote (but it kind of applies to general "cultural" dialogue), I'm a little more annoyed that our characters just get more noticed from their general title than their origins. One thing I don't think Bioware realizes is that their world..the cultures and such.. is far more compelling than the general "hero's path" one embarks on. It's annoying being a Dwarf Noble coming back to Orzammmar and getting referred to as "The Grey Warden" in the Provings, for example. There's some dwarf specific dialogue, but not enough. I'd like to tell them that being a Grey Warden sucks. Being a Dalish or Aeducan or from the Cousland family is cool as hell though.
Hawke is different. He or she has down to earth family ties.. I like that.
Of course, if you either killed Trian or were simply framed, you're still referred to as a Kinslayer and given quite a bit of hatred in Orzammar when you first show up. I'm sure that the Proving Master calling you the "Grey Warden" was more polite than what he was really wanting to call you, since you never do get to prove your innocence (which always bugged me).
Same with the Dwarf Commoner, as the last time you were in a Proving, you ended up getting the most seasoned members of the Warrior Caste upstaged by a Brand. They're probably secretly furious about seeing you do that again and even more that this time, they can't do anything about it.
And I agree, it's going to be a shame that this time around we probably won't have any family ties, I liked Hawke having a family.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Why can't a Dwarf or Elf invoke the name of the Maker or praise the Chantry from time to time? Even if they don't believe in Andrastianism. And if they don't then the options are not usually, in my experience, something you have to do to advance the plot. Though honestly that is one of the benefits of DA Os dialog system I imagine my decidedly ambivalent Dalish Elf Rogue who I am finishing Awakening with right now every time she says something along the lines of "Praise the Maker!" She is just being realllllly sarcastic about it.
It depends what kind, I guess. A Duster wouldn't give two craps about dwaven traditions. They'll be looking for meaning in many places. Their religion never served them well before.
It depends what kind, I guess. A Duster wouldn't give two craps about dwaven traditions. They'll be looking for meaning in many places. Their religion never served them well before.
And that is another excellent point. Though I do not think we have ever seen a Dalish Elf in a Dalish Clan actively worship the Maker so there is no ingame precdent for that but many Dwarves do seem to convert when going to the surface and with the unbending nature of Dwarven Caste society many of them are probably quite eager to jump ship into something that promises them at least some level of advancement.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Of course, if you either killed Trian or were simply framed, you're still referred to as a Kinslayer and given quite a bit of hatred in Orzammar when you first show up. I'm sure that the Proving Master calling you the "Grey Warden" was more polite than what he was really wanting to call you, since you never do get to prove your innocence (which always bugged me).
Same with the Dwarf Commoner, as the last time you were in a Proving, you ended up getting the most seasoned members of the Warrior Caste upstaged by a Brand. They're probably secretly furious about seeing you do that again and even more that this time, they can't do anything about it.
And I agree, it's going to be a shame that this time around we probably won't have any family ties, I liked Hawke having a family.
The Proving Master is stunned to see you and calls you Lord/Lady Aeducan. It's just that they reuse the generic dialogue otherwise. I think it would have been nice to announce that my Aeducan was fighting on Harrowmont's account. Not the Grey Wardens. As much as it's the noble thing to do, that's not why I'm there. I'm there for petty vengeance. lol. Not the Grey Wardens.
Hawke was terrible rpg proagonist often we didn't controled him and if we could it was only in limited way for example hawke always belive in maker and always care about his family even if i don't and don't want to my protagonist. Crap my pro-templar hawke protected anders from templars rpg aspect sucked in da 2 and i rly hope that neither feeling about someone or something also outlook won't be enforced like in da 2.
Dao was much better when it comes to rp you could choose about who you care and about who you don't same about your views.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Hawke was terrible rpg proagonist often we didn't controled him and if we could it was only in limited way for example hawke always belive in maker and always care about his family even if i don't and don't want to my protagonist. Crap my pro-templar hawke protected anders from templars rpg aspect sucked in da 2 and i rly hope that neither feeling about someone or something also outlook won't be enforced like in da 2.
Dao was much better when it comes to rp you could choose about who you care and about who you don't same about your views.
How does Hawke always believe in the Maker? It seemed pretty optional to me.
Only if I'm allowed to openly go against them as well.
Still worst news of Inquisition.
*pats*
How does Hawke always believe in the Maker? It seemed pretty optional to me.
Nope in case diplomatic/paragon hawke during battle he says may andraste guide you and another type of stuff also some dialogues are enforced when he wishes maker guide him for example in feynriel in the fade hawke have 2 dialogue options 1 that tranquil second when he wishes maker guide him.
As far as Hawke is concerned I had her be a believer but kind of an agnostic one, so if she did say anything on the subject (and I do not remmber the specifics) it would have just been lip service. That is the fun thing about Role Playing Games you can still 'Role Play' even some pretty dasterdly deeds and dialog that does not normally match. Your atheist Hawke says "Praise the Maker!" She is just doing it to play along and not cause problems. Or is just secretly being sarcastic about it. I know its tough, but you can find reasons for just about anything a character does and still have them be consistant.
On a sidenote (but it kind of applies to general "cultural" dialogue), I'm a little more annoyed that our characters just get more noticed from their general title than their origins. One thing I don't think Bioware realizes is that their world..the cultures and such.. is far more compelling than the general "hero's path" one embarks on. It's annoying being a Dwarf Noble coming back to Orzammmar and getting referred to as "The Grey Warden" in the Provings, for example. There's some dwarf specific dialogue, but not enough. I'd like to tell them that being a Grey Warden sucks. Being a Dalish or Aeducan or from the Cousland family is cool as hell though.
I agree with you, but being a Jedi Spectre Grey Warden seems to be our fate in DA:I. I would not expect more reactivity than a mage or elf PC got in DA:O.
Merrill is a Pariah for sure even if she she loves the Dalish and holds their traditions. As First to the Keeper, she should preserve the Eluvian sure, but the Keeper also had the right to refuse, imo. I love Merrill but taking back a tainted mirror because of curiosity and history and lore is exactly why Tamlen disappeared and turned into a Ghoul later on. She crossed a line to learn more about what happened to her friends.
Marethari and her clan disagree with all of her actions, where as Merrill says the Dalish NEED this mirror to learn about the past and thrive as a people again. Her clanmates see her as someone who betrayed them and their Keeper. She broke the rules set by her Keeper, and as such her clan turned her away.
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