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Need insight on some deep thoughts about the ending.


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#51
Franky Figgs

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So, yeah - if you're going to suggest a variation on IT that doesn't rely on hallucinations and fits closer to my understanding of how indoctrination works, then I'm all ears. And I say that as someone whose canonical ending is Control.

Thank you. This is exactly what I'm suggesting. I believe there is a good theory that explains how indoctrination works in concordance with everything we see playing out as necessary, giving us a final ending with no meaningful loose ends. The indoctrination in ME is explained as a science fiction phenomenon. But we know in the real world it is not. In the real world indoctrination is planting ideas into a persons head they won't or can't question and thus they must eventually accept them. THIS is the indoctrination that I ask the audience to consider.

 

So when the Leviathan AI gives us a sudden problem to resolve it is how we respond to it that is our indoctrination test. And how we can critically examine the question based on the stories logic is our only tool to expose it.

 

Synthesis (or the merger of synthetic and organic parts) has been presented as a threat in the beginning moments of our journey starting with the mysterious message on Eden Prime.  - In story telling its very common the ultimate obstacle is foreshadowed at the beginning. There are no positive examples of synthesis save, maybe, our avatar. Despite any arguments if this is the same thing as the Leviathan AI's synthesis I would remind you that this synthesis doesn't actually exist and all arguments are based on the stories internal logic not real physics. If one states "the story has no logic" then I would say "one hasn't been paying attention"

 

Indoctrination serves very little gameplay or narrative purpose to be at the forefront of our major antagonist motives (Saren and TIM) without us at some point confronting it gameplay or narrative wise. ME3 is full of allusions to it's scifi concept of indoctrination, hence why people can't seem to drop it. The argument is - Is it missing? And that argument is the point. If one can readily detect indoctrination it's not going to work. But we can look at the examples (Saren and TIM) and compare them to the our own ability to rationalize what they did as the right thing to do. There is no right or wrong in this. It's simply seeing if we are following a preferred course of action the main antagonist (Reapers/Leviathan AI) are setting up. They even tell us "You follow the course of our design"

 

The problem presented at the end is that we are to believe that synthetics will do nothing other than kill all organics. The story as we experience this would only suggest this if we failed in any way in the mission at Rannoch which is a tricky one the resolve peacefully. Nevertheless it can be solved. And for those that solved it, the moment we are told something with no reference or experience to the problem, and even having contrary experience to it, we can be left to assume the writer setting this up is dumb and accept the problem at face value and justifying our preferred action however we need because that's what we are left with.

 

The question I think is worth asking is what is artificial intelligence in ME? AI isn't a real thing. So in ME it works on ME logic. The evidence shows AI gets it's account of being from another parent entity. How it selects this I don't know. But it's worth assuming that the Leviathan AI gets this ontology from the Leviathan itself when it admits it controls the Reapers like thralls. 

The problem it presents would only makes sense if it was talking to a thrall. A thrall can not resolve the synthetic/organic conflict even less than an enthraller can. AI naturally rebel in the environment that is forced to act as a dispensable tool. The AI would value it's own life and fight back.

The moment we agree to solve the problem presented is the moment we are indoctrination into it's enthralling hierarchy system and the problem is as real as it can be. 

 

The AI itself could almost care less if it "wins or loses", it simply has a preferred outcome and one way to make it happen. A choice, from the entity that can gather the whole galaxy to follow it into the clutches of hell, to be a thrall. This entity would be a catalyst in that regard. I speak for myself when saying - the Leviathan AI knows an alpha enthraller on the field when it see's one, hence attempting to indoctrinating the player controlling "the Shepard" when it gets the chance.

 

This is a 4th wall indoctrination and it can not work if the player gets to immediately know the attempt is at hand in anyway.

 

Finally, I'm going repeat myself a bit but also go full conspiracy here so please bare with me. According to Mr. Hobbes, which apparently someone the on writing team is a study of,  mankind is solely destined to states of chaos and conflict known by as - the state of nature. “in the nature of man we find three principal causes of quarrel: first, competition; secondly, diffidence, thirdly, glory”

His resolution was to form a Leviathan which is a body of all people under a social contract to be ruled by an absolute sovereign.

Already some of the names chosen to tell the ME story seem pretty leading. But the allegory to this in ME is as follows:

  • The Leviathan uses enthrallment to force consent in which it is to rule as sovereign over its organic thralls.
  • The Reapers uses "indoctrination" (fiction or otherwise) to manipulate consent in which it is to assimilate advanced organics into their order.
  • The Leviathan's AI uses the literal definition of indoctrination to have ones will consent to its design - to form the social contract in which it is to rule as sovereign over synthesized thralls. (again, evidence being it already controls the Reapers, why assume it's going to get rich winning chess or Jeopardy afterwards? Its should likely assume direct control when ever it wants! What's it do? Someone tell me.)

From the Leviathan AI, the rational given to agree with this contract is that without it we will not survive the state of nature in which organics and synthetics must be in conflict. Similarly Thomas gave sound reasoning for the commonwealth to be ruled by a sovereign, preferably a sovereign monarch.

The Leviathan AI would represent a self appointing sovereign entity that is attempting to test our capacity to be indoctrinated into its social contract – to be a synthesized thrall, by agreeing to the problems an organic thrall must face – organic thralls cannot give synthetics autonomy, hence why they are destined to rebel.

 

 

None of you may agree with me but at the very lest let it be known - Indoctrination Theory for ME does not necessitate us assuming that the ending did not happen. It could also just be a set up to show us a way our minds work when exposed to the concept. Are we going to accept a problem to choose to resolve before considering the evidence of the problems design? If so, enter the 4th wall indoctrination theory.



#52
AlanC9

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The obvious problem with the conspiracy part is that you've got effects preceding causes. You're better off just ignoring the question of what Bio actually intended.

#53
sH0tgUn jUliA

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Control is the means to survival. Control of the reapers, and of you if necessary.



#54
Franky Figgs

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The obvious problem with the conspiracy part is that you've got effects preceding causes. You're better off just ignoring the question of what Bio actually intended.

I know its gamble, there are no other options if one is to have an opinion about it. We were invited to speculate. I'll take another bet if it comes together better than this.