268 réponses à ce sujet

[Dominus]

but to cite Fallout 3 as an example is not a good one at all. LOL

And this time I agree with you. Fallout 3 was an enjoyable game for me, but the story(particularly the main arc) did not blow me away at all.

Yea, the cover based shooting in ME had so much in common with of the best tactical games (with RPG elements) EVER …..not popamole bs like Gears of War…ok

I meant cover shooting in general doesn't make it lose RPG status or otherwise demean quality. I'd argue Mass Effect is more tactical than GoW due to controlling allies' abilities rather than being fully glued to one while working with lone AIs. But no, it's not going to be as deep as JA2.

As a Mass Effect fan, would I put it in my list of top RPGs? Probably, but not at the top. My personal vote for the best/favorite RPG would be V:tmB.

[CronoDragoon]

To be fair, I'd rather replay Star Trail than DA:O or KotOR. Nothing against those games, but there's a charm in text based games I enjoy over cinematic ones. Plus it's one of the few games/series where travel/exploration isn't trivial and a game into itself.

Also, I get the impression the list isn't particularly popular here. That's fine. But ignore the order - what does everyone think about the actual commentary/user reviews?

 

I think it's a shame that the Obsidian sections feel obligated to bash BioWare. There's no need for it, and it comes off as petulant and bitter. It's also a backhanded compliment, since the implication is that BioWare games are popular enough to be given uncalled-for bashings.

 

As for the console list, you can probably guess I'm pretty happy with the Chrono rankings. Glancing over the list I have two immediate objections:

 

1. Tactics Ogre LUCT is the best SRPG of all-time. It's better than FF Tactics and it's better than Lodis, and I say that as someone who thinks FF Tactics has the best story of any JRPG. I can't even play SRPGs anymore because I find myself constantly wishing I had the Chariot system to minimize headache.

 

2. There's really no defense for having Suikoden 1 on this list and no others. Suikoden 2, 3, and 5 all outshine it, and it barely beats out 4. It really doesn't hold up the way the other Suikodens do.

[bussinrounds]

Still waiting on that BSN list.

[addiction21]

Still waiting on that BSN list.

 

Personally I have never been fond of "lists". I like what I like and don't feel the need to take part in some sad childish pissing match about what websites lists say what.

[Dominus]

Still waiting on that BSN list.

Well, you can ask Fake Tears to throw in a poll or otherwise find a way to make it happen.

Personally I have never been fond of "lists". I like what I like and don't feel the need to take part in some sad childish pissing match about what websites lists say what.

Reading them can give me insight on new games I hadn't yet discovered. It's very handy living in the GoG/Steam age where a lot of the classics are a click away.

[Fast Jimmy]

Just got a chance to dive into this, but...

A Quest for Glory game made the list? Heck, it was right neck and neck with wasteland and The Witcher 2? In a rankings list written by THE CODEX?!

That made my day. Heck, that might make my week.

[bussinrounds]

Just got a chance to dive into this, but...

A Quest for Glory game made the list? Heck, it was right neck and neck with wasteland and The Witcher 2? In a rankings list written by THE CODEX?!

That made my day. Heck, that might make my week.

Good post by Codexer Monty here on the voting system & the obsession with rankings.  So yea, look more at the list as a whole, as opposed to the individual rankings.  

 

I think some people on other forums haven't really understood the nuances of the voting system. Like that discussion on RPGWatch on why Skyrim is not in the top 70 and how this supposedly shows 'nostalgia' bias. They forget that with 25 points to distribute people are voting for their top 10/20 games. Mediocre games like Skyrim might be in a number of gamers' top 70 lists but very few top 10 lists.

Something like Arcanum, which some people describe as a broken mess, has a loyal group of supporters who allocated points to it. Other groups favoured Wizardry, or the gold box games, or Witcher, Gothic. Something like Skyrim simply had no/few supporters who loved aspects of it enough to rate it very highly.

So while some moan about order and omissions, the reality is it's a very interesting list where every game has something which made it appeal strongly to someone. Which is great for the mini-reviews.

Those who focus too much on the ranking (or DArtagnan at the Watch with his Skyrim obsession) need to realise that this was not a curated top 70 list but the result of voting for a small number of games. No system of voting would ever please everyone and I think this is the best I've seen in terms of an overall selection.

[Susty Randusky]

Still waiting on that BSN list.

And you're still a HK

[bussinrounds]

And you're still a HK

And your still Rusty Sandusky.

[In Exile]

Good post by Codexer Monty here on the voting system & the obsession with rankings.  So yea, look more at the list as a whole, as opposed to the individual rankings.  

 

I think some people on other forums haven't really understood the nuances of the voting system. Like that discussion on RPGWatch on why Skyrim is not in the top 70 and how this supposedly shows 'nostalgia' bias. They forget that with 25 points to distribute people are voting for their top 10/20 games. Mediocre games like Skyrim might be in a number of gamers' top 70 lists but very few top 10 lists.

Something like Arcanum, which some people describe as a broken mess, has a loyal group of supporters who allocated points to it. Other groups favoured Wizardry, or the gold box games, or Witcher, Gothic. Something like Skyrim simply had no/few supporters who loved aspects of it enough to rate it very highly.

So while some moan about order and omissions, the reality is it's a very interesting list where every game has something which made it appeal strongly to someone. Which is great for the mini-reviews.

Those who focus too much on the ranking (or DArtagnan at the Watch with his Skyrim obsession) need to realise that this was not a curated top 70 list but the result of voting for a small number of games. No system of voting would ever please everyone and I think this is the best I've seen in terms of an overall selection.

 

That post doesn't really address the (alleged) criticism, because those people who are argue, say, in favour of Skyrim probably do think it's a top 10 all-time game. 

[Fishy]

Was this list made by troll and retard ? I wasted 10 sec .. Well 20 because I wrote this message.

[bussinrounds]

Was this list made by troll and retard ? I wasted 10 sec .. Well 20 because I wrote this message.

It was a list voted on by hundreds of RPG fans.  You're the one that sounds like the troll/retard. 

 

Butthurt cause you're favs are no where to be found or something ? 

[Cyonan]

The list does show some nostalgia bias, but it should come as a surprise to nobody that many hardcore RPG fans prefer older games to newer ones.

 

Besides, pretty much everybody is going to be voting on a list like this with some kind of bias. I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't be voting up a lot of my old favourites if BSN ever did a poll like this.

[bEVEsthda]

I just had a look on this. And I'd say it's an excellent list, and the voting results are well representative of what should be expected, as well as the qualities of the games.

 

That then a small group of console players and Bioware's "new fans", acquired through the DA2 disaster, are annoyed, is nothing to write home about. Sorry, but you don't mean anything, in the greater picture of this. And you're also wrong, as almost always.

[Pateu]

I feel like the list was made by hipsters.

 

Those are all games most of the people gaming today could not stomach playing.

 

They're so old.

[Chris]

Who the f*ck place Alpha Protocol above Ultima 7 !!! *that should be a crime*

[Jorji Costava]

I feel like the list was made by hipsters.

 

Those are all games most of the people gaming today could not stomach playing.

 

They're so old.

 

Not sure why a game's being old should be an obstacle to its appearing on a "Best of" list. Lots of people can't watch silent movies, or even black and white movies, but that shouldn't stop films like Battleship Potemkin, City Lights or even Citizen Kane from appearing on greatest films lists.

 

Who the f*ck place Alpha Protocol above Ultima 7 !!! *that should be a crime*

 

Haven't played Ultima 7, but honestly, Alpha Protocol is one of my favorite games ever. I always appreciate it when games try to do something innovotative with dialogue mechanics, and the espionage milieu just seems woefully under-used by games in general.

[In Exile]

Not sure why a game's being old should be an obstacle to its appearing on a "Best of" list. Lots of people can't watch silent movies, or even black and white movies, but that shouldn't stop films like Battleship Potemkin, City Lights or even Citizen Kane from appearing on greatest films lists.

 

I think that when a film or genre (or game) becomes very niche, it becomes much harder to justify as an all-time great. It basically gets reduced to, it was great because (it did this revolutionary thing at the time), which has to outrank other products that did similar things, or eventually did them better (often by combining with other innovations that came up well after that movie was made). 

[Pateu]

Not sure why a game's being old should be an obstacle to its appearing on a "Best of" list. Lots of people can't watch silent movies, or even black and white movies, but that shouldn't stop films like Battleship Potemkin, City Lights or even Citizen Kane from appearing on greatest films lists.

 

Because they're outdated and when someone sees those games in the top of the list, games the list is supposed to rouse their interest in, he'll just laugh it off and leave the page.

[Cyonan]

Because they're outdated and when someone sees those games in the top of the list, games the list is supposed to rouse their interest in, he'll just laugh it off and leave the page.

 

Even though I will take a few shots at a lot of older RPGs and this list is somewhat biased(as I mentioned before though, everybody voting on a list like this will have bias), there is also a reason that games like Planescape Torment are legendary within the RPG genre.

 

The only area that a number of those "outdated" games can't hold their own or even surpass newer games in is graphical fidelity.

 

So unless you're one of those people who thinks that graphics is everything, I don't see why you would disregard a list that includes older games.

[In Exile]

Even though I will take a few shots at a lot of older RPGs and this list is somewhat biased(as I mentioned before though, everybody voting on a list like this will have bias), there is also a reason that games like Planescape Torment are legendary within the RPG genre.

 

The only area that a number of those "outdated" games can't hold their own or even surpass newer games in is graphical fidelity.

 

So unless you're one of those people who thinks that graphics is everything, I don't see why you would disregard a list that includes older games.

 

As much as Planescape is loved, it's a hard game to play if you're just jumping into these old late 90s, early 2000s RPGs. There's a lot in mechanics (gameplay-wise), dialogue, quest trees, accessibility in builds, etc. to discuss/criticize. 

[Il Divo]

I just had a look on this. And I'd say it's an excellent list, and the voting results are well representative of what should be expected, as well as the qualities of the games.

 

That then a small group of console players and Bioware's "new fans", acquired through the DA2 disaster, are annoyed, is nothing to write home about. Sorry, but you don't mean anything, in the greater picture of this. And you're also wrong, as almost always.

 

<Old Bioware fan.

 

<PC and Console player

 

<Thinks list is trash.

 

Personally, any list that has Baldur's Gate 1 as a "Top" game is going to be laughed at. It belongs in a museum (along with quite a few others). But you're free to continue thinking that only console players or DA2 fans think this list is trash. 

[TurianRebel212]

Chrono Trigger 

Final Fantasy VI (III for US) 

Mass Effect. 

 

 

Here endeth the debate. 

 

 

Only reason I don't put ME2 in there-as it's a better game than ME1, is because it wasn't quite a "true" RPG. But it's better than all those 3 games. But as far as straight up RPG's, those are probably the best ever made. 

 

Also, Deus Ex and Planescape Torment would round out the top 5. 

 

 

 

Edit- So, CT and FF aren't PC RPG's. So just put Deus Ex and Planescape in their place.