27 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

I have seen the videos, read the codex, and seen the threads. The indoctrination theory, as interesting it is, discredits a lot of other factors and places a heavy emphasis on Shepard. I believe the whole indoctrination setup was meant to be a crucial factor towards the ME3's story and ending but was scraped due to leakage like the original endings, EA, or bad writing in story.

The leakage theory doesn't work. The leaked material doesn't show anything remotely resembling indoctrination; it's straight-up literalist

[Abelas Forever!]

6. The Reaper: Despite the Leviathan DLC, which I believe is crap, could possibly be part of the whole indoctrination theory an how meeting the species that created the reapers never really happened but was all a hallucination in Shepard's head. I know its a bit farfetched but why is it that a species so superior and possibly the first in existence itself not be able to contain the situation or simply made an off switch on harbinger? Why was it that they were not able to stop the Reaper extermination before it was too late? I believe it was all a hallucination. I think there was an ancient superior alien race that experimented with indoctrination to dominate future and fellow species that would soon evolve and use the indoctrination to make conquering the universe much easier with less destruction and chaos/war etc. They created a unique species superior in intellect in a lab and infused this species with heavy physic technology infused with element zero. They infused so much that the creature was able to indoctrinate an take over. The take over could of been out revolt, flaws in evolution seen, or because of the destructive potential power seen from element zero.

 

Leviathans were arrogant and they tought that they were superior comparing  to any other species. So they created the AI but they never thought that the solution of the AI could be what the solutions ended up being. So no turn of switch was needed. Leviathans created the AI and the AI created Harbinger who was the first reaper. I think Leviathans were easy target because Leviathans had never had enemies so they were vulnerable to the enemy who was at their own level. It think it's possible that the AI created reapers in secrecy and when the Leviathans find it out it was too late.

[Kabooooom]

I loved the Leviathan DLC. I think the Leviathan backstory that was presented is much more interesting than the alternative that you present, OP. No offense.

And with regards to Indoctrination - there is a ton of info about it in the Codex (or the wiki). It is quite different than the Leviathan's domination ability.

[Abelas Forever!]

I also liked the Leviathan DLC. I think it was the best DLC in ME3.

[Kabooooom]

Yeah I really don't get why people don't like it. It was awesome. Really well done, especially compared to Omega (which I also still like)

[CptFalconPunch]

Yeah I really don't get why people don't like it. It was awesome. Really well done, especially compared to Omega (which I also still like)

Because its as horrible as the ending itself. Its one abomination created to explain another abomination.

 

Everything other that its ending exposition is, awesome. Also awesome obligatory kotor-like underwater level!

[CptFalconPunch]

1. It is possible. What is 10000 times more possible is bad writing.

 

2.Yes, and possibly why everyone on the citadel is so calm despite the war, all the time. Also no, its explained thoroughly why GETH became self aware.

 

3.Its the constant paradox, of trying to create a robot and making it have feelings, without having any :/ The classic writing of having something robotic, then somehow make us connect with it, through it showing humanity and ridumentary feelings. The armor? He is a cosplayer of shepard. Try reading the codex entries as the shadow broker base.

 

4. Changing their thought patterns, aka masking the classic perspective each of each individual. This happens through signals.

 

5.In my opinion, foreshadowing of the conflicting ideas (saren) by presenting a genius, which usually are at the cutting edge of madness and genius. (See movie: A beautiful mind)

 

6. Bad writing, possibly due to a dropped plot? I don't know what happens in Bioware, although I can assure you the indoctrination theory is not cannon, and the sooner you forget about it, the better for you.

 

Dude, i suggest you stop speculating, its the writers job to create the story and the plot, not yours. No offense

[Kabooooom]

So you like everything except the concept that the Leviathans created the Catalyst?

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Indoctrination only occurs through continued proximity to "reaper tech." I could lick some, then leave, and I would be unaffected. 

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

 

Dude, i suggest you stop speculating, its the writers job to create the story and the plot, not yours. No offense

To be fair, they did a pretty bad job of it. 

[CptFalconPunch]

So you like everything except the concept that the Leviathans created the Catalyst?

Of course, the DLC is top notch in every other category, investigations, fights, underwater levels, come on!

 

To be fair, they did a pretty bad job of it. 

Which is why you people should stop bothering with it. If you want a good plot play mass effect 1.

[Kabooooom]

Then I have a hard time reconciling that with your general opinion of the dlc, which you stated here (unless you are being fully sarcastic, in which case - gotcha)..

Because its as horrible as the ending itself. Its one abomination created to explain another abomination

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Indoctrination only occurs through continued proximity to "reaper tech." I could lick some, then leave, and I would be unaffected. 

 

I wouldn't recommend it. 

[CptFalconPunch]

Then I have a hard time reconciling that with your general opinion of the dlc, which you stated here (unless you are being fully sarcastic, in which case - gotcha)..
 

Then I'm not saying it correctly. I liked everything about the DLC besides Leviathan conversations. Other than that its pretty dope, i also liked how they incorporated the mind controlling spheres from Eletania.

 

Same as the ME3 game, everything is top notch until the last 1% of the game.

[Kabooooom]

Gotcha. I didn't interpret those as the same as the sphere from Eletania though. Wasn't the Eletania sphere a Prothean data storage device of sorts? It played back the recorded data of a Cro-Magnon man from an implant in his head. They were studying the early humans from their base on Mars. Aside from both the Leviathan spheres and the Eletania sphere being, well, spheres - I thought the similarities ended there?

There was also another Prothean sphere in the Firewalker dlc too.

[CptFalconPunch]

Gotcha. I didn't interpret those as the same as the sphere from Eletania though. Wasn't the Eletania sphere a Prothean data storage device of sorts? It played back the recorded data of a Cro-Magnon man from an implant in his head. They were studying the early humans from their base on Mars. Aside from both the Leviathan spheres and the Eletania sphere being, well, spheres - I thought the similarities ended there?

There was also another Prothean sphere in the Firewalker dlc too.

It is vague, but what do I know, for I was a primitive slaying the local pyjack civilization. Wrex approved.

[shodiswe]

Also, from the description of Indoctrination, it doesn't affect the thigns you see, it only add this anoying nagging voice that booms in your head and breaks down the persons ability resist by making them do what they are told to get rid of the insistant "nagging" in their head that's making them go crazy.
Eventualy it causes them to breakdown entierly, which ofcourse affects their abilities and normal functions.

[Kabooooom]

Well, with rapid indoctrination it does seem to cause hallucination. At least that is what happens to the scientists aboard the Derelict Reaper.

[Applepie_Svk]

truth which I hate about IT is that if we have really recieved unfinished product, in this point is hard to say of what is their masterplan or what will be or won´t be in next mass effect game, but if this in case, than they pretty much screwed their fanbase about dunno 5 times, since the release of DA2 ? 

 

As far as much I would like so much I would hate the possibility of IT, because it would mean that ending if maybe lies who knows where and which of the future games, yet I found it hard to believe that with IT they would redeemed their reputation, thanks to backlash of ME3.

 

The other half of joke, which i mentioned sometimes at the start of backlash, is that what if whole ME2 and 3 were halucinations... lol

[Xamufam]

From thefinalhourapp
On Deciding the End of the Game:
The illusive man boss fight had been scrapped... but there was still much debate. 'One night Walters scribbled down some thought on various ways the game could end with the line "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" at the bottom of the page.'

In truth the final bits of dialogue were debated right up until the end of 2011. Martin Sheen's voice-over session for the illusive man, originally scheduled for August, was delayed until mid-November so the writers would have more time to finesse the ending.

And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped because the gameplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices).

[Xamufam]

Indoctrination only occurs through continued proximity to "reaper tech." I could lick some, then leave, and I would be unaffected. 

 

ANN Alert: New Article on "Indoctrination"
 

From: Alliance News Network Information Partners

Thessia - Asari scientist Rana Thanoptis has died in custody, allegedly committing suicide after she was arrested for the murder of multiple asari military officials.

Prior to her death, investigators said Thanoptis spoke of voices in her head, which they believed to be indicative of her indoctrination. The voices foretold the ascension of the asari--and told Thanoptis that anyone fighting the Reapers "needed to die."

Thanoptis worked for a top-secret project for former Spectre Saren Arterius several years ago, where she likely became indoctrinated. She received a pardon from the asari government in exchange for providing research assistance on Reaper technology.

Thanoptis was believed responsible for planting a makeshift device that detonated at a research center, killing five visiting asari military officers along with four civilians. The attack seriously wounded a dozen more and caused significant damage to the facility.

Investigators say they are not seeking any more suspects in the case.

http://masseffect.wi...#Rana_Thanoptis

Rana Thanoptis, the Asari you can choose to let live on Virmire. It took her three years to be fully indoctrinated and she had less exposure than Shepherd. It started in 2183 and she was fully indoctrinated in 2186. Coincidence that's how long Shepherd has been fighting the Reapers?

[NoMoreCalibrations]

I think Drew Karpyshyn's presence was sorely missed in ME3. I don't know why he wasn't involved. RESEARCH TIME!!!!!

[I Tsunayoshi I]

I think Drew Karpyshyn's presence was sorely missed in ME3. I don't know why he wasn't involved. RESEARCH TIME!!!!!

 

No joke. Tried to come up with something so I could poke fun at a Stormtroopers aim.

[Kabooooom]

@Xamufam- Rana Thanoptis was indoctrinated on Virmire. What makes you think otherwise? She was indoctrinated completely, but allowed to be fully autonomous until the reaper war began. Then, the reapers used her. She was essentially a sleeper agent of sorts. It didn't take her three years to be indoctrinated.