27 réponses à ce sujet

[Dobyk]

One of the best aspects of roleplaying an elf in Thedas, whether Dalish or City, is that so much of your people's culture, language and civilization is lost you basically squeak in front of the computer screen every time you discover something of ancient elven origin (well, maybe it's just me ). Especially in DA:O we were able to actually explore an elven ruin, speak with the spirit of an ancient elf, perform a religious ceremony tied to uthenera, and find pieces of ancient elven armor, which look fantastic. In DA2 we got some bits of ancient elven lore and it was hinted that there might be some ancient dreamers out there, sustaining their slumbering bodies from the energies of the Fade (squeak!).

 

The closest thing Dragon Age has to the "High Elves" trope is the ancients. The ancient elves in this setting kind of remind me of the Dwemer of Elder Scrolls to be honest - a highly advanced society with lots of magical mysteries and powerful magics. One thing that hasn't been clear enough in the games, however, is how advanced their magic was, how glorious. I really want to see some remnant of the ancients' magic that can make me go "WOW, that's awesome!". So far, we have Arcane Warrior specialization, which is pretty powerful, dreamers, and eluvians. That's not a lot of examples, really, nor particularly "glorious" ones. I would imagine the ancient elves lived in magnificent stone cities, incorporated into beautiful forests, with breathtaking architecture, animated servants/guardians, and magic oozing from every corner. I imagine something of the sort of Lorien or Rivendell in terms of beauty, reverence for nature and magic. So, my personal hopes are that when it comes to discovering something of ancient elven origin in Inquisition, it would actually be unique, impossible to replicate by modern magic, super awesome, and it will be housed in a beautiful, if dilapidated, elven temple to showcase some ancient elven architecture.I hope there will be a place to add high fantasy elements to the elves, and to actually make us realize "wow, Arlathan was truly great, actually pretty badass and so magically advanced we don't know what half of the elves' inventions do".

The Dalish may be practicing some form of "old magic", but I think this is just a very crude and basic fraction of the true might of the ancients. I just hope they go in the direction of "the ancients were powerful, with strong magics that cannot be replicated today" rather than "yeah, they got some nice stuff going on, but it's all irrelevant, no unique magic, they were weak and corrupted and fell to the Tevinter, fullstop".

So, what are you hoping for to see in terms of the true elves, the ancient elves? What are your expectations?

Edit: Yes, I have read The Masked Empire and know that the ancients had a lot of shadows underpinning their society. They were far from utopian, but then again, it's not a bad thing, is it? Ruthless and discriminating against their own people, but immensely advanced and powerful, sounds like the Dwemer, or the Tevinter Perhaps the ancient elves and the ancient magisters were more similar than we think

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The Masked Empire talks about them a bit. I don't like them. 

[Dobyk]

The Masked Empire talks about them a bit. I don't like them. 

 

Because of their servant class? To be honest, it's not surprising. They had a whole continent to themselves, of course they would form a degree of hierarchy. But then again, Felassan was also talking about how magical and beautiful their cities were, so I think he had mixed feelings really   Well, if they continue vilifying the ancients I would be sorely disappointed, I don't like the Dalish attempt to emulate being "elven" and my only hope is rediscovering actual ancient lore.

[DivineSinner]

I prefer your idea of  "the ancients were powerful, with strong magics that cannot be replicated today"  . I hope it isn't that RAWR we're the Tevinter Magisters boom magic spell and Arlathan gone probably spelled that wrong.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Because of their servant class? To be honest, it's not surprising. They had a whole continent to themselves, of course they would form a degree of hierarchy. But then again, Felassan was also talking about how magical and beautiful their cities were, so I think he had mixed feelings really   Well, if they continue vilifying the ancients I would be sorely disappointed, I don't like the Dalish attempt to emulate being "elven" and my only hope is rediscovering actual ancient lore.

Not servants. Slaves. Big difference.

[In Exile]

I'll pass on the idea of the elves historically racially pure utopia. 

[Dobyk]

Not servants. Slaves. Big difference.

 

Wait, as far as I remember, didn't they have a very, very bad servant class, not slavery? I don't remember him describing it slavery. To be honest, it's such a bull**** thing to write about the ancients xD If it came from Gaider, then I would believe it. But the whole premise is "they're not better than present day human tyrants". Wow, thanks Bioware, excellent way to excite elven players. But anyway, as far as I remember, it was not actual slavery, maybe close, however.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Wait, as far as I remember, didn't they have a very, very bad servant class, not slavery? I don't remember him describing it slavery. To be honest, it's such a bull**** thing to write about the ancients xD If it came from Gaider, then I would believe it. But the whole premise is "they're not better than present day human tyrants". Wow, thanks Bioware, excellent way to excite elven players.

I prefer them not being a utopia race, actually. Separates them from the elves of other lore. 

[Dobyk]

I prefer them not being a utopia race, actually. Separates them from the elves of other lore. 

 

Oh yeah, it's not realistic for them to be utopian! It's not what I want to say, it's just that actual slavery is kind of forced to be honest. If they want to be even more realistic, they should talk about several ancient nations to begin with, not just one big blob of an ancient empire. Anyway, I don't like  "utopian elves" either, my main point here is I want to see badass magics. I don't mind their social order, it's a thing of the past. But their inventions and legacy should remain. In fact, their social order could serve as a useful lesson to the Dalish that their ancestors were not saints, wronged by the nasty humans. The most practical thing to get out of all that, however, is to learn about their magic, language and religion, things that can be of use in the present.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Not servants. Slaves. Big difference.

 

No. It was servants.

[In Exile]

Oh yeah, it's not realistic for them to be utopian! It's not what I want to say, it's just that actual slavery is kind of forced to be honest. If they want to be even more realistic, they should talk about several ancient nations to begin with, not just one big blob of an ancient empire. Anyway, I don't like  "utopian elves" either, my main point here is I want to see badass magics. I don't mind their social order, it's a thing of the past. But their inventions and legacy should remain. In fact, their social order could serve as a useful lesson to the Dalish that their ancestors were not saints, wronged by the nasty humans. The most practical thing to get out of all that, however, is to learn about their magic, language and religion, things that can be of use in the present.

 

They need the slaves for their blood magic rituals to be effectively immortal, which we've seen time and time again in the lore. 

[Dobyk]

They need the slaves for their blood magic rituals to be effectively immortal, which we've seen time and time again in the lore. 

 

Do we have evidence they actually practiced blood magic o.O I think the Tevinters conquered Arlathan just to learn how to use lyrium to enter the Fade, since the elves already knew how to do that. We know that blood magic can be used to prolong one's life, and I've seen several people on the forums speculate that the ancient elves did just that. Yet, there is a lot we don't know about the old elves, they might not have been immortal in the first place. Also, this theory doesn't completely explain why they shunned away from human contact, rather than conquer the nomadic peoples that arrived in Thedas. Why would they hide from primitive humans when they can enslave them and ensure a greater supply of blood for immortality? It just doesn't make complete sense. I think there was more to it than blood magic, if blood magic was involved at all. In fact, I think the blood magic explanation is the "easy way out" and is quite boring actually, not to mention it completely vilifies the old elves. This creates serious implications for the Dalish if they discover such speculations to be true, as it pretty much ruins a lot of elven concepts they hold, and can seriously break the roleplay for some Dalish fans (although I'm not a Dalish roleplayer myself). It is one thing to have a ruthless class society - it is bad, but not uncommon or extraordinary. It's another thing completely to resort to blood magic to ensure immortality, with the blood of your own people. A very macabre concept.

[In Exile]

Do we have evidence they actually practiced blood magic o.O I think the Tevinters conquered Arlathan just to learn how to use lyrium to enter the Fade, since the elves already knew how to do that. We know that blood magic can be used to prolong one's life, and I've seen several people on the forums speculate that the ancient elves did just that. Yet, there is a lot we don't know about the old elves, they might not have been immortal in the first place. Also, this theory doesn't completely explain why they shunned away from human contact, rather than conquer the nomadic peoples that arrived in Thedas. Why would they hide from primitive humans when they can enslave them and ensure a greater supply of blood for immortality? It just doesn't make complete sense. I think there was more to it than blood magic, if blood magic was involved at all. In fact, I think the blood magic explanation is the "easy way out" and is quite boring actually, not to mention it completely vilifies the old elves. This creates serious implications for the Dalish if they discover such speculations to be true, as it pretty much ruins a lot of elven concepts they hold, and can seriously break the roleplay for some Dalish fans (although I'm not a Dalish roleplayer myself). It is one thing to have a ruthless class society - it is bad, but not uncommon or extraordinary. It's another thing completely to resort to blood magic to ensure immortality, with the blood of your own people. A very macabre concept.

 

I think forcing the Dalish to confront their idealized past - whose collapse currently rests on ideas so offensively racist that IRL only the most vile groups even purport to hold - is quite fitting. We have evidence that the Dalish conspired with demons, since when we follow through the elven ruins in DA:O we wind up chasing what looks to be a ghost (or a fade echo) that leads us to an ambush by a number of demons. Merrill talks about the horrors that happened at Sundermount between both the elves and tevinters, and she says that there's no evidence that tells us whether Audacity was summoned by the elves or the tevinters. At any rate, the current explanation for shying away from contact, that humans are literally plague bearing vermin, is so insanely racist that I can't believe Bioware would actually endorse. 

 

We know that the Tevinter Imperium used blood magic to extend life, and we also have theories (in setting/lore) that suggest that humans learned to harness magic from the elves, not from the old gods. 

 

We don't know whether human blood is compatible with whatever ritual was used, and for all we know the elves did enslave humans. Their history paints them as victims and the Tevinters paint themselves as conquerors, but most of the records of whatever happened prior to the First Blight were lost during the 200 years it lasted (we know this via DG's WOG). The elves had their history eradicated, and the blight destroyed what Tevinter had. For all we know, Tevinter vs. Arlathan was just the clash of two evil empires, with the humans edging out the elves for whatever contingent historical fact. 

[aTigerslunch]

Destroy em all....none shall live...there can only be one!

last man standing.....or last woman standing...

The Inquisitor! All else died at their hands.

[Lillian]

Personally, I want to see more of their culture. Like, the whole slave thing is a huge bummer, but they were a society that probably lasted millenia with poets, artists, writers and thinkers who lived for centuries!!! They took years and years to simply debate politics and philosophy! Their culture seems so rich and intricate. That sort of lifespan can allow a creative thinker to make a whole library/museum of their works! Then just imagine a whole society of that. That sound simply wonderful.

P.S. Sorry for geeking out like that.

[aTigerslunch]

Nope, actually your right on that. That much time, there would be lots of wonderful arts, music and other creativeness to explore. I would love to see there buildings standing tall and checking out that architecture. I was fascinated in finding that kind of stuff to.

[Isabelle]

I liked your idea, it's always interesting and mysterious lost civilizations powerful, but where does all this fit into the story of Dragon Age Inquisition?

[Mirrman70]

well they clearly had a magi-as-rulers kind of civilization (not to unlike Tevinter) and while their rulers are implied to be dreamers and not blood mages, we do know that dreamers can kill whole groups of men can be forced to kill each other by dreamers.

[EkhidnaDrakaina]

The Forbidden Ones taught humans (Tevinter) Blood Magic, not the Elves. The elves lost their immortality by coming into contact with humans- thus the term "shemlen" (quick ones/quicklings). It's not exclusively racism, City Elves have overall shorter lifespans compared to the isolated Dalish because they have chosen to keep away from humans.

[In Exile]

The Forbidden Ones taught humans (Tevinter) Blood Magic, not the Elves. The elves lost their immortality by coming into contact with humans- thus the term "shemlen" (quick ones/quicklings). It's not exclusively racism, City Elves have overall shorter lifespans compared to the isolated Dalish because they have chosen to keep away from humans.

Absolutely none of this has any proof in the lore beyond "the Dalish say so", and we have writer comments to the contrary (for example, MK saying that all lifespans in Thedas are identical). This is, of course, ignoring how insanely racist the view would actually be if Bioware endorsed it. 

[Statare]

Absolutely none of this has any proof in the lore beyond "the Dalish say so", and we have writer comments to the contrary (for example, MK saying that all lifespans in Thedas are identical). This is, of course, ignoring how insanely racist the view would actually be if Bioware endorsed it. 

 

Considering the humans committed racially motivated genocide/enslavement, which is analogous to our real life (slavery based on race was common through out the world), I doubt revealing that Elven immortality is actually contingent on isolation from humans (a completely fictional situation) would be the most devastatingly racist revelation of the DA setting... Come on.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Finding demons in long forgotten elf/human ruins doesn't say anything about whether the ancient elves consorted with demons. The Veil is thin in the entire Brecillian forest and the ruins themselves suffered cataclysm when the terrible present destroyed everyone there.

[In Exile]

Considering the humans committed racially motivated genocide/enslavement, which is analogous to our real life (slavery based on race was common through out the world), I doubt revealing that Elven immortality is actually contingent on isolation from humans (a completely fictional situation) would be the most devastatingly racist revelation of the DA setting... Come on.

 

The elven religion is based on racial supremacism, and the desire to create a racially pure utopia. Tevinter is the capital letters Evil Empire ™. They're not presented as potential protagonists. They're not presented as a justifiable moral alternative. The game isn't about the Tevinters being right. 

 

If the Dalish are right, then the game is simply about the KKK's view of isolation and race being completely justified, only we have the world elf and human instead of black and white. That's obscene.