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Witch Hunt - Revenge against Morrigan? For what exactly?

Débuté par MrFob , mai 12 2014 06:33

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#1
MrFob
Posté 12 mai 2014 - 06:33

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So, I just played witch hunt for the first time and I noticed that on multiple occasions, you have the option of saying that you hunt Morrigan for revenge. My question is: Revenge for what?

 

I  certainly haven't played all variations of Morrigan's plot-line in DA:O but I am not aware that she really does something that would warrant hunting her down for revenge. As far as I can see, she does come clean with you all the way, the night before the final battle. Sure, she wasn't exactly truthful about the reason why she was with you before (in fact, she outright lied about it) but at least at that point, she comes clean and she just offers you a choice with the dark ritual.

She doesn't really betray you or force anything on you, she will accept whatever you decide and leave. Sure, if you romanced her, you might be angry that she left you but in that case, shouldn't you understand her as well? After all it's not like she was an easy person before.

You might also be mad about her leaving before the final battle but seriously, she doesn't do anything against you and if you haven't figured out that she is a bit self centered by then, than you just didn't pay attention. It's certainly not enough of a jibe to hunt her half way across Ferelden and back to be sure (at least IMO).

If anything, it's the Warden who can betray Morrigan really badly with the whole Flemeth deal.

 

Granted, I never played a character who has her on really low approval so maybe something really bad happens if that's the case and I don't know about it (if so, please tell me, don't worry about spoilers).

 

Mind you, I am not saying it's a bad idea to give the player this revenge option, I just can't see any reason to choose it. So I am curious: Did anyone choose the revenge dialogue and if so, why?


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#2
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 12 mai 2014 - 07:53

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I think it's a fitting option for my dwarf who didn't do the ritual. Morrigan was on friendly terms, but left the battle at a crucial moment. A deserter, when it comes down to it. For my Dalish, it's kind of iffy. I feel like it's a flashback to the beginning of the Dalish origin, when you and Tamlen are about to kill some humans for taking elven artifacts. Morrigan does the same thing. But I'm not Tamlen. Morrigan gives the book back and I let her go.

 

My dwarf is a queen b***** who was a commander of armies even before becoming the Warden though. She's militaristic. This deserves an axe to the chest.


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#3
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 12 mai 2014 - 09:52

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I think part of it is dramatic effect but reaching really.

 

Morrigan, as much as I find her incredibly annoying in general, does have qualities that are nice as well. But in the end, I think people probably are just so pissed about the way they wrote in that stupid death consequence and then used sex with her giving her a freaky old god baby which for someone like her who seems to crave power (based on conversations that come up) and thinks love is useless and makes people weak, it seems like a very bad idea. That she knew about the ritual while the player did not I think makes the writers want to go there thinking players might actually be dumb enough to blame morrigan for their horrible writing. And while morrigan is a character that I want to tell to STFU most of the time, I actually don't care if she gets an old god baby for the most part and am grateful to have an out so I don't have to kill off my PC or Alistair who is most likely my romance for that game or at least a friend (despite how annoying I find him at times depending on my mood).

 

For the male PC, I'm not really sure why they would feel revenge. Maybe for feeling manipulated especially if they romanced her, that at the last minute she pumps a baby out of them just to save their life. That could be just cause I would think but again, she didn't make the rules. She just uses them to her advantage and I honestly don't think she is aware that the warden doesn't know they will die killing the archdemon. I actually think she thinks you do know but doesn't bring it up before then because there's no point as who knows if you will ever get that far. I don't think she or flemeth were aiming to hide the death consequence. I think it was just their plan to wait until it was time.

 

Mostly I think the revenge is probably added in by writers thinking people will be mad at morrigan but really it's misdirected anger because they should be mad at the writers for that whole craptastic joke of a situation.


#4
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 12 mai 2014 - 09:58

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I think it's a fitting option for my dwarf who didn't do the ritual. Morrigan was on friendly terms, but left the battle at a crucial moment. A deserter, when it comes down to it. For my Dalish, it's kind of iffy. I feel like it's a flashback to the beginning of the Dalish origin, when you and Tamlen are about to kill some humans for taking elven artifacts. Morrigan does the same thing. But I'm not Tamlen. Morrigan gives the book back and I let her go.

 

My dwarf is a queen b***** who was a commander of armies even before becoming the Warden though. She's militaristic. This deserves an axe to the chest.

 

This makes sense as well. If you don't do the ritual, and if you had relied upon her and she leaves on you when you need her the most, that just shows she was using you and I can see the pc wanting to go after her for that. Sure, she had the right to leave as the others do, but she only inserted herself into you group to get that old god baby. She doesn't get what she wants and she leaves. In this way, it's a bit like the loghain/alistair situation at the landsmeet. Don't kill loghain and if you invested time in building alistair into a strong companion and came to rely upon him, his leaving right then is very bad especially if he has on some of your best gear which you lose as he walks out with all of it on. Sort of similar in that way and I think people who thought grabbing another warden might be a good idea would probably want to beat down alistair for leaving as well.


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#5
sylvanaerie
Posté 12 mai 2014 - 10:22

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I haven't played out to that point anyone who would want to 'stick it' to Morrigan.  I suppose someone who lost her lover (Alistair) to the archdemon that way and had Morrigan desert them when she was needed might have it in for the swamp witch, but I won't ever do that scenario again.  Worst. ending. ever!  Witch Hunt didn't lend itself to a lot of replayability.  My Surana and Queen Cousland had Alistair still (for which they were grateful to her) and my King Cousland was ...well KING...and he didn't have to sacrifice Alistair (who who found likeable, just not kingly) to do it.

 

And playing a US'ed warden after Origins was the stupidest. idea. from. Bioware.   EVER.


#6
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Posté 12 mai 2014 - 10:37

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I'm looking at my dwarf's perspective the same way she executed people in DAA for deserting. She's a hardass.

 

She'll probably get hers sooner or later. She's not a likeable character. lol

 

For my Dalish, it's a perfect bookend to the opening scene with Tamlen. Whether you're merciful or vindicative, it's important to Dalish how they treat these matters.

 

 

Even the promotional wallpaper for Dalish revolves around artifacts. It's not a minor issue to them. http://images2.fanpo...4-1600-1200.jpg


#7
KaiserShep
Posté 12 mai 2014 - 10:45

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And playing a US'ed warden after Origins was the stupidest. idea. from. Bioware.   EVER.

 

NPC: Wait, the Hero of Ferelden? But...I was there when Alistair gave your eulogy. You should be dead!

 

Warden: I got better.


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#8
kalasaurus
Posté 12 mai 2014 - 11:10

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I looked up that scene on YouTube and found it particularly disturbing because the Warden stabbed her right after she revealed they had a son (from outside the Dark Ritual).  Yikes.


#9
Corker
Posté 12 mai 2014 - 11:13

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I've always had a suspicion that the "revenge" line was there because the writers used to read these forums a lot, and noticed that a lot of players held a grudge against Morrigan and wanted to kill her. Because she left, because she stayed and then she left, because of the DR with Alistair, (because an NPC, and a female one at that, had the gall to hold goals not intrinsically aligned with the PC's, and all NPCs who don't give the PC what they want are villains who must be killed).


I mean, I can see the desertion angle. I think that's legit, although if that's what I had in mind, I don't know that I'd phrase the dialogue as 'revenge.' Justice, maybe. Revenge sounds more personal, and I think it's meant to. Whether or not you or I think the narrative shows Morrigan personally wronging the Warden, a lot of people felt wronged, and that line gives them the ability to express it.
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#10
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 12 mai 2014 - 11:17

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I'm more interested in the effect each have, so I wanted two versions. We know she survives either way, but I'm curious how it affects her.

 

There's also the third option, of being a male who romanced her and goes through the Eluvian.. but I've yet to do it.


#11
sylvanaerie
Posté 12 mai 2014 - 01:09

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I'm more interested in the effect each have, so I wanted two versions. We know she survives either way, but I'm curious how it affects her.

 

There's also the third option, of being a male who romanced her and goes through the Eluvian.. but I've yet to do it.

 

I've never been able to carry her romance to that point, though my game glitched once and I got her 'romanced ending' slide because I had romanced her to the point where she gave him the ring.  My last couple male wardens romanced Leliana (only) since I'd already seen the 'catfight' banters.

 

Do you get the option to go if the romance isn't active with her?  


#12
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Posté 12 mai 2014 - 01:53

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I've never been able to carry her romance to that point, though my game glitched once and I got her 'romanced ending' slide because I had romanced her to the point where she gave him the ring.  My last couple male wardens romanced Leliana (only) since I'd already seen the 'catfight' banters.

 

Do you get the option to go if the romance isn't active with her?  

 

No, it's romance only.

 

Which kind of annoys me.. It might be the most "complete" story for the Warden. Everyone says the Warden is missing, and this makes for a good excuse why. What doesn't make sense is that every other Warden is missing too.. And to make things more confusing, she leaves something for you.. and you get this dramatic music as you look at it... and then..... Credits roll. Wtf.

 

Sorry. Went on a tangent there.


#13
theskymoves
Posté 12 mai 2014 - 01:53

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Maybe the 'revenge' line is there for the players who are angry that Morrigan ran off with a really really pricey bit of gear.

 

"Where's my Staff of the Magister Lord? REVENGE WILL BE MINE!!!!!" *stab stab* /snark


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#14
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Posté 12 mai 2014 - 01:56

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Maybe the 'revenge' line is there for the players who are angry that Morrigan ran off with a really really pricey bit of gear.

 

"Where's my Staff of the Magister Lord? REVENGE WILL BE MINE!!!!!" *stab stab* /snark

 

Really, if you think about it, it's not a bad reason. lol. That's over 100 gold.


#15
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Posté 12 mai 2014 - 03:02

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I haven't played out to that point anyone who would want to 'stick it' to Morrigan.  I suppose someone who lost her lover (Alistair) to the archdemon that way and had Morrigan desert them when she was needed might have it in for the swamp witch, but I won't ever do that scenario again.  Worst. ending. ever!  Witch Hunt didn't lend itself to a lot of replayability.  My Surana and Queen Cousland had Alistair still (for which they were grateful to her) and my King Cousland was ...well KING...and he didn't have to sacrifice Alistair (who who found likeable, just not kingly) to do it.

 

And playing a US'ed warden after Origins was the stupidest. idea. from. Bioware.   EVER.

 

None of the DLC except Awakening really is all that playable or perhaps replayable. Once is enough and even then, a bit of a let down and sort of 'why did you even waste my time?' - makes me long for the awesomeness of skyrim DLCs. Now THAT is how you do a DLC. Or even the ME3 ones were pretty great for game play though I didn't care much for the Aria one as I like to bring my squaddies and hear their comments. 

 

I did the Golem one yesterday and was thoroughly unimpressed as well as uninspired by it. Awakening is pretty good but even then it's like a weird mad rush and you don't really get to enjoy much of it like you do DAO. I haven't played it in a while for that reason. Too rushed and immersion feels a bit limited. Witch Hunt was pretty awful and I actually feel bad for fans of Morrigan. I think they got the shaft on that one kind of like Alistair lovers got the shaft with awakening. Sorry but that brief encounter you get with him if you made him king is about as lame as it gets. If he is a warden, he should be brought in by CHOICE, like at the start, you decide if you Alistair is with you given he is a warden as well and should be there with you when you are securing Amaranthine. It makes zero sense that he is not unless he left or is the king. I feel with these DLCs they just couldn't really be bothered to do the kind of cutscenes and interactions they did for the Original DAO. In fact, it's evident they decided to steer away from them given how DA2 progressed.

 

But yeah, I never want revenge against morrigan and I don't really like her though I will admit I find her kind of cute in some comments you do with her when she giggles. She has her moments. If you kill flemeth for her, I truly believe that she believes you saved her hide or bought her time and she is very grateful to you for it and really does care about you as a friend, perhaps her first friend ever. I don't do that anymore though because my game bugs out when I give her the grimoire or if I give her the black one it bugs after that and she never asked me to go after flemeth or when she does that bugs out. Very strange.


#16
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Posté 12 mai 2014 - 03:05

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I saved Flemeth on my Dalish.. which, I guess, is my main. I like Flemeth way too much.

 

I'm also afraid of her. lol


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#17
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Posté 12 mai 2014 - 03:10

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Maybe the 'revenge' line is there for the players who are angry that Morrigan ran off with a really really pricey bit of gear.

 

"Where's my Staff of the Magister Lord? REVENGE WILL BE MINE!!!!!" *stab stab* /snark

 

So true. That is quite annoying if you have great gear on her. I don't use her anymore so I don't really give her anything of note but I also always do the DR anyway so it's not really like I would lose anything, but if I did, I'd be really pissed. I know people who let loghain join were floored that Alistair stormed off with their stuff. Ah well, the price of siding with loghain.... not cheap. When you get him, the one time I did it as a male cousland who was not going to allow him to die when he lined himself of as king, hadn't really used alistair much so didn't give him really great gear. And then he gets loghain who IIRC wasn't even at the appropriate level. And for a shield warrior, it's not even like auto level can mess anything up but he wasn't really leveled for some reason. I still wonder about that. The great general who was vastly inferior to Alistair upon his arrival.


#18
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Posté 12 mai 2014 - 03:12

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I saved Flemeth on my Dalish.. which, I guess, is my main. I like Flemeth way too much.

 

I'm also afraid of her. lol

 

I love flemeth. She's crazy but it feels like it might be for her own amusement that she acts that way. I just love her. Even in DA2 she was cool. Of course, this could be in part due to my utter love and adoration of Kate Mulgrew and my being a HUGE fan of Voyager - oh so happy that they FINALLY gave us a female captain and one that I really loved at that. Yeah, I think that's a huge part of it.


#19
Mike3207
Posté 12 mai 2014 - 03:12

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She ducks out of the fight with the Archdemon if you don't do her Ritual. Alistair ducks out too though if you spare Loghain, and he does it a lot earlier. Frankly, i think both of them are unreliable.

 

As for revenge-sure some might view it that way. Flemeth makes it clear that defeating the Blight is the most important thing, and then Morrigan leaves during the most important time in defeating the Blight. I'd say the Ritual isn't that big of a surprise particularly after Morrigan asked you to kill her mother.You had to know another shoe was going to drop after that.


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#20
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Posté 12 mai 2014 - 03:13

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Loghain uses all Tier 6 stuff, with a plain Iron longsword.

 

The sword is probably like that because they didn't want the duel to be too hard for some people. I'm assuming at least.

 

His whole class is wrong though. He's a rogue in the books. And his Mac Tir armor is rogue in Da2 (which is probably the most badass armor in that game).


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#21
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Posté 12 mai 2014 - 03:19

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She ducks out of the fight with the Archdemon if you don't do her Ritual. Alistair ducks out too though if you spare Loghain, and he does it a lot earlier. Frankly, i think both of them are unreliable.

 

As for revenge-sure some might view it that way. Flemeth makes it clear that defeating the Blight is the most important thing, and then Morrigan leaves during the most important time in defeating the Blight. I'd say the Ritual isn't that big of a surprise particularly after Morrigan asked you to kill her mother.You had to know another shoe was going to drop after that.

 

Even though I was really fed up with alistair for a while there and had much to say about his character as a result, in his case it really is not the same. He's deluded about who the wardens are and he has made revenge a priority as he lost what he felt was the only 'family' he ever really had... not just Duncan but all the wardens as well. In some of the dialogue he talks about them as really being the only family he feels he ever had. Not just a Duncan thing but a sense of belonging. So while I think his view of the wardens is very naive and idealistic and not at all based in reality, I can see his not wanting to be part of them anymore when he feels like you are giving a free pass to the man who he feels murdered them all. Really it was more due to the darkspawn. I don't see how loghain could have helped all that much by the cutscenes. It looked like they were half gone by that time, but for alistair, he did not see that and feels they would have survived if loghain didn't turn tail and retreat.

 

With morrigan it's strictly about her having manipulated her way into following you so she could get an old god baby out of you, which is much much different. She had an ulterior motive from the start and was using you to that end. Alistair never had an ulterior motive about anything. He actually respects loghain until loghain abandons the wardens and king... and then does a lot of other things like try to kill you multiple times.


#22
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Posté 12 mai 2014 - 03:20

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Loghain uses all Tier 6 stuff, with a plain Iron longsword.

 

The sword is probably like that because they didn't want the duel to be too hard for some people. I'm assuming at least.

 

His whole class is wrong though. He's a rogue in the books. And his Mac Tir armor is rogue in Da2 (which is probably the most badass armor in that game).

 

Honestly, I can see him more as a rogue like Riordan.


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#23
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Posté 12 mai 2014 - 03:27

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I've always had a suspicion that the "revenge" line was there because the writers used to read these forums a lot, and noticed that a lot of players held a grudge against Morrigan and wanted to kill her. Because she left, because she stayed and then she left, because of the DR with Alistair, (because an NPC, and a female one at that, had the gall to hold goals not intrinsically aligned with the PC's, and all NPCs who don't give the PC what they want are villains who must be killed).


I mean, I can see the desertion angle. I think that's legit, although if that's what I had in mind, I don't know that I'd phrase the dialogue as 'revenge.' Justice, maybe. Revenge sounds more personal, and I think it's meant to. Whether or not you or I think the narrative shows Morrigan personally wronging the Warden, a lot of people felt wronged, and that line gives them the ability to express it.

 

I don't even think justice is appropriate but I see what you mean. Something more along the lines of the warden doesn't like being used and played. But not really revenge or justice. I don't like her and when she pisses me off in game I throw out a fireball just to knock her on her ass, which is great for amusement.... but killing her? I feel far better to just deprive her of the ritual and let her leave. I guess if you play hardcore and got her built just right and were planning on bringing her it could screw with your game. That would ****** people off no doubt. But really, that just shows how naive the writers were to think people wouldn't be pissed at some of the maneuvers they pulled in the game from the landsmeet on. A whole lot of nonsense and to what end? It's like you aren't even playing as a warden anymore. You're involved in politics which is kind of funny because I think in two of the starts I can think of Duncan says he cannot get involved. I think the CE and one of the dwarf ones but I can't remember which.... Maybe the commoner when you are at the provings? I thought he said something about that there.


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#24
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Posté 12 mai 2014 - 03:28

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Honestly, I can see him more as a rogue like Riordan.

 

He's got a Nathaniel thing going on, on the cover of Stolen Throne.

 

http://fbfnetwork.co...olen_throne.jpg


#25
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Posté 12 mai 2014 - 03:32

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He's got a Nathaniel thing going on, on the cover of Stolen Throne.

 

http://fbfnetwork.co...olen_throne.jpg

 

Oh... I love nathaniel.... he really needed to be a romance option in DAA. Yes, I can definitely see Mac Tir as a rogue. His tactics from what I have read in the forum sound a bit rogue-ish too.


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