172 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadow Fox]

There already is a war. She simply sees it before it happens. As does the Arishok, with all his musings about the city. She just happens to be quicker on the draw. I can appreciate that.. considering that hardly anyone else takes any initiative about any thing in Kirkwall. Except Hawke. For all of their unlikable qualities, I at least like Petrice, Anders, and Arishok for being capable of "action".

Even if it's ultimately self serving "action" that only benefits them?

[Steelcan]

What are you talking about? Petrice can die. Liara can't.

you have motive, means, and opportunity to kill her in Act 1, but nah

 

at least you never have a proper motive to kill Liara

[Sifr]

 

I feel like I'm being forced to fight a war of principles. Only Sarcastic Hawke makes a joke of this (to the Arishok.. and Arishok thinks he'd be no better than Sarcastic Hawke without his principles). So I'm going to choose a side. If my choices are to be Shallow (Sarcastic Hawke), Weak (like the Viscount) or actually fight for something (Petrice or Arishok), I'll choose the latter. Screw it.

 

I'd hardly say that Snarky Hawke is necessarily shallow, since they show a remarkable patience and respect for the Qunari (for the most part) and take the middle ground in the conflict. They have no patience for Petrice's fanaticism, nor are they willing to bend over backwards like the Viscount just to appease the Arishok, instead standing their ground and refusing to mince words or hide the truth, which earns the Arishok's respect.

 

Rather than the Qunari or Chantry, Hawke takes the side of Kirkwall in the conflict, choosing to fight for the innocent people who are stuck in the middle of two opposing ideologies and trying to prevent them from being killed in the crossfire.

[AresKeith]

How did Liara manage to get brought up in here?

[Dean_the_Young]

you have motive, means, and opportunity to kill her in Act 1, but nah

 

at least you never have a proper motive to kill Liara

 

Sure you could- she could be creepy and annoying and she was fixated with Shepard. By video game standards, that's three proper reasons.

[Dean_the_Young]

I'd hardly say that Snarky Hawke is necessarily shallow, since they show a remarkable patience and respect for the Qunari (for the most part) and take the middle ground in the conflict. They have no patience for Petrice's fanaticism, nor are they willing to bend over backwards like the Viscount just to appease the Arishok, instead standing their ground and refusing to mince words or hide the truth, which earns the Arishok's respect.

 

Rather than the Qunari or Chantry, Hawke takes the side of Kirkwall in the conflict, choosing to fight for the innocent people who are stuck in the middle of two opposing ideologies and trying to prevent them from being killed in the crossfire.

 

Define 'Kirkwall' in this context, if you would. Because Hawke certainly isn't fighting for just the innocent: Hawke also fights for the corrupt, the racists, the bigots, the cowards, the criminals, and a lot of other people of less than innocent character.

[Dean_the_Young]

 

I think it was more infuriating that it wasn't a joke.. like they thought this behavior was a good thing.

 

She reminded me of this chick in Wayne's World.

 

 

Too this day, I'm amazed Bioware of all people produced the ME2 MaleShep romances. The Tali one is 'just' a romanticized tale of how a military commander exploits hero worship to bone subordinate at considerable risk to her health, but Miranda and Jack? I never thought Bioware would actually write a romance, let alone two, which could be summed up as 'troubled/disturbed woman only finds happiness through being boned by guy.'

 

That's the polite version of it. The other version is more vulgar for emphasis.

[Dean_the_Young]

I like Jack. Like I just mentioned in another thread, she reminds me of Faith from Buffy (and Faith was about tens time hotter than Buffy to me).

 

I'm meh about Jack- I think they tried way too hard to make her a wubby and white-wash her dark and edgy past. I remember someone who insisted, with considerable conviction, that Jack would never have committed murder or any violent crime that hurt innocents and that it was always self-defense and that the whole 'I'll do the executions' offer was just posturing that she'd never actually do.

 

I find Kaliyo from SWTOR far more interesting. She's pretty much Jack without with wubby- a criminal/anarchist with a tough past and trust issues, but without the 'fix me' story.

 

I was indifferent about Jack the wubby, especially the pointless stupid-evil torture story, but I was downright disgusted by how her character arc in ME2 only finds healing and trust if she gets boned. That was an abhorrently sexist message, easily worse than the Witcher's card collection game.

 

 

 

I don't mind all of the wacky archetypes. I just don't want to be bugged, unless I choose it. And Liara comes off that way.

 

 

I still find it plausible that she might have wanted the mind meld in ME3 as a last stand/hope to get pregnant memory moment.

 

I do not have faith in her ability to let Shepard go.

[Nightdragon8]

The inquisitor isn't a Qunari. They are technically Kossith and Vashoth. Petrice otoh made no claims to hating the race itself. She wouldn't have even used "Ketojan" if she was racist. She hates their religion. Whether that's better or not is another issue, but I just need to point it out.

No evidence isn't really evidence at all, either way.

 

But she did use him, as a way to get rid of Hawke, and set up the Qunari for "attacking and killing" members of Kirkwall.

 

She is a mastermind wannabe, trying to use Ketojan as a pawn in her grand schemes, the lack of caring about him doesn't mean that she isn't racist.

 

However inciting a mob to kill someone doesn't bode to well in my book (reason she is dead in all my playthoughs)

 

Also we don't know the full details, we may be allowed to follow some of the teachings of the Qun we just don't know.

[KC_Prototype]

Didn't she get a crossbow bolt through her head courtesy of the Qunari?

Pretty Warden, I like her. 

[Sifr]

Define 'Kirkwall' in this context, if you would. Because Hawke certainly isn't fighting for just the innocent: Hawke also fights for the corrupt, the racists, the bigots, the cowards, the criminals, and a lot of other people of less than innocent character.

 

Very well, "Kirkwall" in this context is pretty much amounts to the peaceful status quo in the city and the "innocent" are simply those who would suffer if the Chantry and Qunari came to blows, which we see when the Qunari do eventually get pushed too far at the end of Act 2.

 

Of course, this isn't to say that Hawke doesn't always interfere with the status quo, as we often hear from various characters that their actions have been rocking the boat a little bit. But Hawke's not actively trying to change the world, just "make a difference", as s/he tells the Arishok.

 

Likewise, most of Kirkwall aren't particularly "innocent" by any stretch of the imagination. Neither is Hawke themselves (Varric even says as much at the end of Act 1), as well as many of their companions. But for the most part, they tend to do more good than harm.

 

What I always find interesting is that a Diplomatic and Sarcastic Hawke tends to side with the Qunari more often than not, leading to Petrice accusing them of being a friend to the Qunari or a Qunari sympathiser. Yet when you really look at the situation, Hawke actually dislikes both parties, but sides with them over Petrice because her fanaticism is trying to create strife, unlike the Qunari who remain passive for several years before finally being pushed too far.

 

This is similar to the Pro-Mage ending, where Hawke doesn't actually seem to believe in the Mage Rebellion, but fights on their side because Meredith went too far in calling for the Rite of Annulment, when the Mages are just scapegoats for Anders actions.

[Silcron]

I don't even remember Kaliyo?
 
I haven't played Kotor in years (I still have the discs and have been meaning to). I know Jack's actress did Juhani though.

He's refering to Star Wars the Old Republic, not Knights of the...

Kaliyo is the first companion for the Imperial Agent.

[Dean_the_Young]

I see. I gave up on MMO's long ago. I heard it had a decent singleplayer like story though.

 

It has the story of a Bioware game in the Star Wars universe. Which is to say dialogue wheel conversations, fleshed out companions, companion romances (but no same-sex ones in the initial release), plot twists, and more lore than you'll probably ever care to read.

 

Here is Kaliyo 101 (try to spot the parallels to Jack's archetype).

 

[mlgumm]

F*** Mother Petrice with a rusty arrow. Anyone who considers her a martyr will die in all of my playthroughs.

[Lotion Soronarr]

What would be fun if Peatrice was actually one of the loudest voices in the "anti-big-bad" camp. Possible even extreemly anti-Red Templar.

 

People too often dump everyone similar in the same lot - as in, all zealots on one heap. Like they would work well together.