I think it's interesting that despite all of the trouble she causes Petrice isn't hated nearly as much as Tallis, possibly for differentiating reasons but I still find it interesting.
The return of Mother Petrice.
Débuté par
The Sauce of Awesome
, mai 12 2014 10:25
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#152
Posté 17 mai 2014 - 09:58
Chari
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What? What kind of madman would prefer Petrice over Talliss? Yeah, MoTA plot is a bit forced. But Petrice... Is everything terrible about any religion ever
And I am religious yet I still can't stand her
And I am religious yet I still can't stand her
#153
Posté 17 mai 2014 - 10:28
Mistic
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I think it's interesting that despite all of the trouble she causes Petrice isn't hated nearly as much as Tallis, possibly for differentiating reasons but I still find it interesting.
Who says Petrice is less hated than Tallis? If it's about the forum, it has never been the best sample of fans' opinions. And characters who are more divisive tend to get more attention than those who aren't.
#154
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 17 mai 2014 - 10:39
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Even I side with Petrice (on a mage no less), but I don't think Tallis is anything alike. Tallis doesn't have much conviction. She's searching for a place. I can sympathize more with that. Petrice is strident, sure of her place, much like Qunari. I side with her still, even though personally dislike her. The other alternative is seeming like a puppet of the Qunari. I won't have that either.
#155
Posté 17 mai 2014 - 10:42
KaiserShep
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I think the angry!Hawke restriction on siding with Petrice is weird, but then, the Chantry is a bit bereft of humor anyhow.
#156
Posté 17 mai 2014 - 10:44
Wulfram
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People's hatred of Petrice is mostly in character - aside from a bit of plot armour annoyance - and thus doesn't spill onto the forum very much. Whereas people's hatred of Tallis is out of character, and difficult to express properly in game, and thus turns up on the forums.
#157
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 17 mai 2014 - 10:53
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I think the angry!Hawke restriction on siding with Petrice is weird, but then, the Chantry is a bit bereft of humor anyhow.
It isn't about lack of humor. It's that Sarcastic Hawke, when it comes to Qunari, has no conviction. Sarcastic is the one who deflects and accuses the Arishok that he's "starting a war on principle". Arishok agrees, but says "If I didn't have principle, what would I be? You?" A slight jab. You can never tell if Sarcastic ever truly believes in anything (I happen to like it in Act 1 though.. when you're just an immigrant making cash).
While Diplomatic Hawke is just that. Diplomatic.
So that's why I think it's reserved for Aggressive (not "angry". Diplo Hawke can be angry too at times.. but they enforce peace).
#158
Posté 17 mai 2014 - 10:56
KaiserShep
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I guess I can understand that. I don't really take a lot of things seriously either.
#159
Posté 17 mai 2014 - 11:00
Tommy6860
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People's hatred of Petrice is mostly in character - aside from a bit of plot armour annoyance - and thus doesn't spill onto the forum very much. Whereas people's hatred of Tallis is out of character, and difficult to express properly in game, and thus turns up on the forums.
Huh? Care to explain that position? I admit, it makes no sense to me whatsoever.
#160
Posté 17 mai 2014 - 11:00
SnakeCode
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What? What kind of madman would prefer Petrice over Talliss? Yeah, MoTA plot is a bit forced. But Petrice... Is everything terrible about any religion ever
And I am religious yet I still can't stand her
Me. Whilst I dont like Petrice, at all. I would prefer her coming back over Tallis for a few reasons. She is a far more interesting character. She makes sense (as in she knows what she believes and why she believes it, unlike Tallis.) The biggest reason though, is that she's actually well written.
And i'm NOT religious haha.
#161
Posté 17 mai 2014 - 11:04
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What? What kind of madman would prefer Petrice over Talliss? Yeah, MoTA plot is a bit forced. But Petrice... Is everything terrible about any religion ever
And I am religious yet I still can't stand her
Thing is, Petrice is plot relevant. As gleefully as I would use Fist of the Maker on both her and Varnell where they stood in Lowtown, she can actually serve for the bigger picture of the setting, whereas Tallis was clearly a single-serve character.
#162
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 17 mai 2014 - 11:06
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I think Tallis has potential to be plot important. Although I think it could have been presented better. I think both Tallis and Salit -- or people like them - would be good for a bigger story. I also want to know why some become Tal Vashoth. If there's ever a bigger story where the Qunari finally try to invade, then the story needs doubters like this.
- Chari aime ceci
#163
Posté 17 mai 2014 - 11:31
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Huh? Care to explain that position? I admit, it makes no sense to me whatsoever.
I think I understand Wulfram's position. Petrice was written as a pretty unlikeable character (who nevertheless could make valid points about the Qunari, according to some), so her being disliked is no surprise. The hatred is "in character". Meanwhile, Tallis was obviously written to be liked, but it ended up being disliked by many. That hatred is "out of character".
At least this is what I understood. Maybe I'm mistaken?
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#164
Posté 17 mai 2014 - 11:46
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I think I understand Wulfram's position. Petrice was written as a pretty unlikeable character (who nevertheless could make valid points about the Qunari, according to some), so her being disliked is no surprise. The hatred is "in character". Meanwhile, Tallis was obviously written to be liked, but it ended up being disliked by many. That hatred is "out of character".
At least this is what I understood. Maybe I'm mistaken?
Yeah I agree.
I think that Petrice was obviously written to be an obstacle for Hawke, and was written to be disliked by Hawke (and in turn, those roleplaying Hawke. Namely, us!)
Tallis however, was written to be liked by Hawke, despite never coming across as likeable to many of us who were playing the game. Which is doubly frustrating as, whilst we can disagree with Tallis, we never really get to play a Hawke that activity dislikes her, or is hostile towards her. She was written to be an ally, so opposing her never really feels fulfilling in game.
#165
Posté 17 mai 2014 - 11:49
Dean_the_Young
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I think I understand Wulfram's position. Petrice was written as a pretty unlikeable character (who nevertheless could make valid points about the Qunari, according to some), so her being disliked is no surprise. The hatred is "in character". Meanwhile, Tallis was obviously written to be liked, but it ended up being disliked by many. That hatred is "out of character".
At least this is what I understood. Maybe I'm mistaken?
Sounds about right. Petrice was a character with whom the majority of the dialogue available to the player was to be antagonistic and oppositional. She was made to be hated, with the dialogue to support it.
There's nowhere near such an opportunity with Tallis. The writer intent was for her to be broadly likeable and sympathetic, and there are few (if any) Hawke lines to express dislike of her. Heck, the 'choice' of to follow and help Tallis or not was pretty weak and one sided as it was, with the rhetorical reason for not following her being 'I'm tired of this **** and just want to go home.' As oppossed to, you know, the narrative emphasis on protecting innocents.
I didn't like her or dislike her personally, but I really feel we should have been able to drag Qunari collectivism in the dirt and rub it in her face. The whole 'the Qunari are a single organism' as a collective identity doesn't mesh well with her appeals to individuality and 'we're not all like that.' While true, it's also against a good deal of the Qunari depiction of themselves as a collective: the Qunari are the invaders who tried to conquer Kirkwall, and she is a part of that as well.
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#166
Posté 17 mai 2014 - 11:56
Tommy6860
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I think I understand Wulfram's position. Petrice was written as a pretty unlikeable character (who nevertheless could make valid points about the Qunari, according to some), so her being disliked is no surprise. The hatred is "in character". Meanwhile, Tallis was obviously written to be liked, but it ended up being disliked by many. That hatred is "out of character".
At least this is what I understood. Maybe I'm mistaken?
Makes sense I guess, but Wulfram could have posted it with much less ambiguity 
.
#167
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Posté 17 mai 2014 - 01:18
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I can appreciate the hate that Petrice's brand of zealotry inspires. But that doesn't mean she shouldn't have no place in Thedas.
I, personally like the Qunari (they're my favorite faction after the Wardens), but Hawke was hostile towards them, because until Kirkwall his only interaction with the Qun was Sten (who butchered a family of farmers in Lothering for no discernible reason). This is where Hawke's bias comes from. Despite being mageborn and viewing the Chantry with suspicion, the Qunari were the greater threat in his mind.
So while I despise Petrice, I think if only for role playing reasons, the character has something to add to the story. If the implied schism within Chantry ranks comes to pass in DA: I or beyond, even better.
Tallis on the other hand adds very little. A conflicted character in an already complicated world. What I like about the Wardens and the Qunari is that with them we know more or less where the lines are drawn. Tallis only brings 'uncertainty' to the Qun.
#168
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 17 mai 2014 - 01:43
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I can appreciate the hate that Petrice's brand of zealotry inspires. But that doesn't mean she shouldn't have no place in Thedas.
I, personally like the Qunari (they're my favorite faction after the Wardens), but Hawke was hostile towards them, because until Kirkwall his only interaction with the Qun was Sten (who butchered a family of farmers in Lothering for no discernible reason). This is where Hawke's bias comes from. Despite being mageborn and viewing the Chantry with suspicion, the Qunari were the greater threat in his mind.
So while I despise Petrice, I think if only for role playing reasons, the character has something to add to the story. If the implied schism within Chantry ranks comes to pass in DA: I or beyond, even better.
Tallis on the other hand adds very little. A conflicted character in an already complicated world. What I like about the Wardens and the Qunari is that with them we know more or less where the lines are drawn. Tallis only brings 'uncertainty' to the Qun.
Yeah, even Bethany says Sten killed one of her friends. This would be Hawke's only experience.
That said, I'm not sure Hawke is necessarily hostile towards them. Being friendly to Qunari seems easier and on "autopilot" so to speak. Mark of the Assassin in general is written in a way where you help the Qunari, whether you like it or not.
And if you're simply a "completionist" type of gamer, and like getting the most of your money and time, then you'll come out of it as a Qunari friendly character in the end. Turning in swords and suddenly you're like the Ben Hassarath? There are few quests that reward you for being antagonistic or neglectful or working for different factions. You have to manipulate some very specific conditions to work for other factions (like being Aggressive in Act 2 just to side with Petrice), and those don't get you anything. I don't think the game wants to steer you that way. Considering how little content there is for it, and how hidden it is to even see it.
#169
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Posté 17 mai 2014 - 01:51
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You can still earn the Arishok's respect (Basilit-an) while siding with Petrice. Just don't be conniving towards him and own up to killing his emissaries.
#170
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 17 mai 2014 - 01:54
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You can still earn the Arishok's respect (Basilit-an) while siding with Petrice. Just don't be conniving towards him and own up to killing his emissaries.
Oh, I've done that then.
Is that where he has the line "Your inevitable death holds great promise".
Probably his best line. 
I don't get how that earns any respect though. Goes to show how little I understand these guys. And to this day, I still don't understand what the **** that Sarrebas is talking about either (Ketojan). Most meaningless conversation ever.
edit: Btw, I had edited that post and removed the "respect" part. Didn't see your reply.
#171
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Posté 17 mai 2014 - 02:07
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It's more about honesty and certainty than anything else. Whether ally or enemy the Arishok respects certainty. That Hawke doesn't fear him and is straight up with him about it shows certainty and conviction.
#172
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 17 mai 2014 - 02:12
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It's more about honesty and certainty than anything else. Whether ally or enemy the Arishok respects certainty. That Hawke doesn't fear him and is straight up with him about it shows certainty and conviction.
Fair enough. I can respect him for that too (or people like him, I mean. He's fictional, of course. Heh). I just don't place as much value in "certainty". Certainty isn't really a thing in itself to me (like it is to Qunari). I still hate them for what they are certain about. This puts me in Petrice's camp.
#173
Posté 17 mai 2014 - 04:00
Chari
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Huh, weird. I guess that's because I actually like Talliss even if I admit she is not perfectly written. And qunari. Qunari rock
