No but i belive in that what devs said it was cleary self-defense as elves attacked first and it is in WoT.About self-defense in qunari case i hope i don't need speak because they wanted conquer thedas.
Lol, when did the developers say any such thing?
World of Thedas is clearly intended to be read as an in-world encyclopedia, just like the codex in the games. So it's not reliable, and not intended to be reliable.
The problem isn't in the race for the Chantry. It's the religion. They destroyed the Dales because it wasn't following the teachings of Andraste. They tried to destroy the Qunari for the same reason. Along the way, some have just interpretted it as being "elves are bad" rather than "the elven religion is bad". The fact they tried to erase Shartan's role in the story of Andraste probably didn't help things either.
The Dalish weren't following the teachings of Andraste long before the Exalted March was called. There's nothing in the lore to indicate the Exalted March was a proactive attempt to eradicate the Dalish for being heathens, as oppossed to a response for the already ongoing war (which the Human histories remember as being Dalish-started, and the Dalish never talk about the start of).
The Chantry never attempted to destroy the Qunari either- if anything, it was the other way around. The Qunari initiated that war by all accounts, even their own.
Lol, when did the developers say any such thing?
World of Thedas is clearly intended to be read as an in-world encyclopedia, just like the codex in the games. So it's not reliable, and not intended to be reliable.
Well when i was speaking with others they were convinced that i was universal truth besides "quotes" that were written by peoples in-universe rest was truth and wog.To be honest WoT would have little sense if that was lies instead truth.
A person's religion and culture is a pretty big part of their identity. Saying that the Elven faith is bad is essentially saying that Elves are bad. According to the Chantry, to be "good" is to give up the things that are central to Elven culture and identity, and essentially become humans in everything but name.
But, haha, humans will never accept them, so elves lose either way.
The idea that the Elven faith is integral to being Elven is just a No True Scotsman fallacy. It might help the Dalish sleep better at night, but race doesn't equal culture.
Do you believe everyone that claims self-defense?
In my opnion,every Thedosian faction has both it's bad apples and good apples the Chantry included.While saying that all Andrastians are racist/bigots is wrong and inaccurate, since Andrastianism is the "dominant" religion in Thedas with the largest number of followers,this fact automatically makes the Chantry an extremely powerful organization and I'm certain they'd like to remain that way.
Hence the intolerance and opposition to the Qun and the Dalish,the reasons are clearly socio-political and not spiritual,which means that the religious philosophy of Andrastianism by itself,doesn't encourage racism.
It clearly has to do with the fact that the Chantry as a religious organization (and particularly it's high-ranked Clerics),is heavily involved in socio-political economic matters.
Yes, Chantry is racist, sexist and bigoted.
There are bigoted members of the Chantry. But there are also very tolerant members as well, who also consider elves to be fellow "Children of the Maker"
Listen to Sebastian (a Chantry brother) and Merril talk about the Dalish elves. Sebastian speculates that the Maker and the Creators may be different names for the same entity.
I'd say the Chantry is no more or less bigoted than the Dalish.
There are bigoted members of the Chantry. But there are also very tolerant members as well, who also consider elves to be fellow "Children of the Maker"
Listen to Sebastian (a Chantry brother) and Merril talk about the Dalish elves. Sebastian speculates that the Maker and the Creators may be different names for the same entity.
I'd say the Chantry is no more or less bigoted than the Dalish.
Well i would say they are much less as chantry never was hostile besides few individuals toward anyone when even best dalish clan was extremely distrustful and second best was hostile and very racist toward my pc and other humans.And that were best of dalish clans...
Something I've always wondered. What do the Dalish want? Do they simply want another homeland or do they want a return to the days when the Elves ruled the world?
Something I've always wondered. What do the Dalish want? Do they simply want another homeland or do they want a return to the days when the Elves ruled the world?
I think what they want might vary from individual to individual and from clan to clan.Some will be just pleased with having a homeland while others might want more...
I don't know if I'm horrified or intrigued by this prospect. Probably both. Forget Harrowmont versus Bhelen, discussions are going to be heated up if it happens that the only way to get proper elven rights and equality is to support Petrice as the next Divine.
I know. Awesome, right? Though Divine might be a tad ambitious. Petrice might settle for, say, Grand Cleric and autonomy. 
But, more seriously, the closest thing Thedas has to an equal rights doctrine for western-ish understanding of human rights is the Chantry. The Circles are concerned with mage interests, the Templars with the mundanes, the various kingdoms with their own boarders and identity... but the Chantry preaches the only widely held ideological basis for equality. That all people, regardless of rank, and all people, regardless of race, are equal in the sight of the Maker.
If there was to be a political enlightenment for social equality in Thedas in the near future, I'd place more gold on it coming from the Chantry and via a religious-based movement than anything else. A Chantry that pressures anyone who hurts devout Andrastians, even (especially) other, 'bad' Andrastians.
It'd be a plausible reformation, and one that would challenge the players western liberalism impulses. Lots of players like racial equality. Lots of players dislike organized religion. But what if the primary advocate of racial equality was organized religion: what if empowering and enabling the people who wanted to make racial reforms also meant empowering and enabling the Chantry as an institution?
Forget the player preferences and grand standing and baseless boasts about how they'll change the world to fit their vision. If the the movement towards a state religion were tied to the movement for racial equality, and tied in such a way that they rose or sunk together, would you support or oppose them?
I think you could get good, morally ambiguous mileage out of that. But then, I think Tevinter would make an ideal and delicious fan tears/angst setting to play the rise of a democratic (mage-only, initially) Tevinter against a military state that breaks the privilages of the Magisters and makes everyone a soldier.
Something I've always wondered. What do the Dalish want? Do they simply want another homeland or do they want a return to the days when the Elves ruled the world?
Collectives have differing desires- especially a group so divided and divergent as the Dalish. Dalish unity, with each other and with the city elves, is notoriously over-rated.
There are a lot of variations of seeking a return to the glorious past. Depending on the codex you read or the people you talk to, this could come from passively waiting for the Shemlen to kill themselves, to somehow achieving success via reclaiming some ancient elven magic or treasure (the Eluvians), to rediscovering the lost lore to become 'true elves' once again in some vague, utopian state of being and glory and security.
The idea that the Elven faith is integral to being Elven is just a No True Scotsman fallacy. It might help the Dalish sleep better at night, but race doesn't equal culture.
The Orlesian Chantry is, at least. They've wiped out Shartan from their records, and even depict him as a human in paintings (or are outright destroyed).
Andraste herself was not a racist. But that's generally how it goes with founders of religions. Someone great starts something, then lesser people take control of it later.
Really?! 
Really?!
The Masked Empire had a description of an image of Andraste and her followers, where Shartan's ears had been flattened out to make him look human
Mmmmh. This is an, um, squishy concept. On the one hand, they're all biologically elves, and elvish culture is whatever biologically elvish people choose to adhere to, whether it's Chantry beliefs or Dalish ones.
On the other hand, identity isn't purely a matter of self-identification. Any claim to identity is intrinsically a claim to be a part of a community. If that community rejects you, you aren't part of the club regardless of what you yourself might believe. Like that story Dave Chappelle told about his relatively light-skinned grandfather getting on a bus in Washington, DC after Dr. King was murdered. He boarded in a black neighborhood and noticed that the people on the bus were yelling at some white fool. Since he was blind, it took him awhile to realize that the white fool that they were talking about was him.
I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that Dalish elven identity is predicated in large part on asserting a 'cultural' elvishness distinct from biological elvishness, whereby a 'cultural' elf's cultural beliefs are, funnily enough, entirely coherent with Dalish cultural beliefs.
That has an interestin connotation.
The alienages may be the breeding ground of a new elvish culture, neither human nor Dalish.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Really?!
You mean the bit about changing Shartan's image? Yeah, it's in Masked Empire.
Mmmmh. This is an, um, squishy concept. On the one hand, they're all biologically elves, and elvish culture is whatever biologically elvish people choose to adhere to, whether it's Chantry beliefs or Dalish ones.
On the other hand, identity isn't purely a matter of self-identification. Any claim to identity is intrinsically a claim to be a part of a community. If that community rejects you, you aren't part of the club regardless of what you yourself might believe. Like that story Dave Chappelle told about his relatively light-skinned grandfather getting on a bus in Washington, DC after Dr. King was murdered. He boarded in a black neighborhood and noticed that the people on the bus were yelling at some white fool. Since he was blind, it took him awhile to realize that the white fool that they were talking about was him.
I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that Dalish elven identity is predicated in large part on asserting a 'cultural' elvishness distinct from biological elvishness, whereby a 'cultural' elf's cultural beliefs are, funnily enough, entirely coherent with Dalish cultural beliefs.
I'll pre-emptively confess: I'm from an assimilation culture and very strongly believe in the importance of self-identification, rather than identity labels others put on you. If I didn't, I'd not only be a foreigner in my own land but, at various times, a racist/fundamentalist/secessionist and a host of other identity viewpoints I've never had. It started young, when I considered the good guys/heroes of local history to be the loyalists who didn't rebel in ye old secession attempt of who cares, and it's kept on in my professional life.
It's a cultural iceberg for me: not something I get angry about, per see, but a belief/certainty I hold very very strongly. And with that, I suppose I shouldn't continue to argue something I can't debate in good faith.
I'll pre-emptively confess: I'm from an assimilation culture and very strongly believe in the importance of self-identification, rather than identity labels others put on you. If I didn't, I'd not only be a foreigner in my own land but, at various times, a racist/fundamentalist/secessionist and a host of other identity viewpoints I've never had. It started young, when I considered the good guys/heroes of local history to be the loyalists who didn't rebel in ye old secession attempt of who cares, and it's kept on in my professional life.
It's a cultural iceberg for me: not something I get angry about, per see, but a belief/certainty I hold very very strongly. And with that, I suppose I shouldn't continue to argue something I can't debate in good faith.
You mean the bit about changing Shartan's image? Yeah, it's in Masked Empire.
Clearly stopping the Elves from sacking the Capital and the Qunari from taking all of Thedas isn't self-defense
I don't automatically take the Chantry's word for it that the elves did any such thing. The elven version of events is equally valid.
And I don't really give a **** what happens to Orlais, regardless. By then it had already proven itself to be violent and expansionist.
Sure. I don't mean to suggest that you're wrong, or that self-identification is irrelevant - quite the opposite. Identity is just a really knotty issue.
No issue, and no slight taken. I just recognize that I'm part of the knot at times. For me, breaking free of identity expectations was a big part of growing up. I just recognize I have strong opinions. 
I don't think that elves who decide to be Andrastians are less elvish than Dalish elves at all. But I do think that the cultural claim that Dalish tend to make, that they are the 'true' elves, structures the way that all elvish identity is perceived, for good or ill. It's not something that can be ignored.
True. Personally, I just refer to them as Dalish culture rather than Elvish culture. The Dalish have about as much in common with the people of the ancient Dales as had with the original elves as I have with, say... something really unrelated. I don't know a good analogy.
I don't automatically take the Chantry's word for it that the elves did any such thing. The elven version of events is equally valid.
That's a worthy thought to consider, but what about when the elven version doesn't contradict the Chantry version? The Dalish never deny the events of Red Crossing or whever it was.
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