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[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

. Might as well as say she was half-goat, had three breasts, and danced naked in the streets of Minrathous with dwarf clowns.
 

 

I for one consider that an improvement.

[wcholcombe]

Lol, it's not sexism if it's traditional. 

My point is that it isn't that the Chantry views men as being incapable of being priests and such or that they are somehow inferior to women.

 

It isn't moaning. It's simply wanting a more accurate portrayal of the woman and her friends. Instead of randomness. Might as well as say she was half-goat, had three breasts, and danced naked in the streets of Minrathous with dwarf clowns.
 

My point was, it often happens in history and is kind of the way the world works.  The victor writes the history and Shartan being humanized or removed had way more to do backlash for the elves attacking the Chantry then it did with him just being an elf.  Ser Michel states that prior to the Fall of the Dales the elves and Chantry were allies.

 

TME suggested via Briala's thoughts of an idealized Orlais, that elves aren't allowed in the Chantry priesthood.  I wouldn't say Andrastianism itself is racist, but there's definitely issues in the modern Chantry as an institution.

Gaider himself or Laidlaw one has stated there are elves in both the Templars and the Chantry Priesthood.

[Iakus]

TME suggested via Briala's thoughts of an idealized Orlais, that elves aren't allowed in the Chantry priesthood.  I wouldn't say Andrastianism itself is racist, but there's definitely issues in the modern Chantry as an institution.

Might be less about the Chantry's policy's and more about Orlais's social mores. 

 

Orlais really doesn't like elves, and is socially stratisfied to a point comparable to Orzammar

[azarhal]

Considering their reliance on oral history and tradition, I doubt that many Dalish elves know the exact details of the Dalish version of events. Dalish legends and tales are routinely devoid of verifiables. Names, dates, places, people- if the Dalish even knew who the leader of the Humans was during that time, I'd be very impressed.

 

I call the Dalish's oral history the "telephone history" (based on the telephone game). There is no way it is accurate with all the retelling to the next generation in the last 800 years. Each new generation will color the tales with their own prejudices and what they experienced. Their might even be a big segregation in historical beliefs between clans because of it.

[wcholcombe]

Might be less about the Chantry's policy's and more about Orlais's social mores. 

 

Orlais really doesn't like elves, and is socially stratisfied to a point comparable to Orzammar

See this was the interesting thing about TME.  In the views of the elves who live in Orlais, they flat out state in TME that their lives are better then the elves in Ferelden who have to live in tiny alienages.  This includes the CEs who live in Val Royeaux.  I feel sometimes that we give way to much weight to what the filthy dog lords and their people told us about orlais in DAO, because the CEs in Orlais at one point specifically state they are thankful their lives are better then those in Ferelden.  Ferelden itself has a similar view on CEs, there is a law stating it is illegal to kill a human to protect an elf.

 

Also, CEs have it much better then the casteless in Orzammar if that is the comparison you make, they own business, property, and some even have servants themselves.  Unless you are saying that humans are the nobility and elves are the merchant caste and I guess the dalish are the casteless?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

See this was the interesting thing about TME.  In the views of the elves who live in Orlais, they flat out state in TME that their lives are better then the elves in Ferelden who have to live in tiny alienages.  This includes the CEs who live in Val Royeaux.  I feel sometimes that we give way to much weight to what the filthy dog lords and their people told us about orlais in DAO, because the CEs in Orlais at one point specifically state they are thankful their lives are better then those in Ferelden.  Ferelden itself has a similar view on CEs, there is a law stating it is illegal to kill a human to protect an elf.

 

I believe that was just the views of the elves in Halamshiral. It's the only city in Orlais where the city elves are more numerous than humans. I think the other Orlesian cities do have alienages.

[dragondreamer]

 

Gaider himself or Laidlaw one has stated there are elves in both the Templars and the Chantry Priesthood.

 

I've heard conflicting things, so I'm just going off what I've seen in TME for the moment where the priesthood is concerned.  As far as templars, I'm really not sure.  I recall something being said about elves being restricted from the templars, but Lambert had an elven page in Asunder.  It's possible that was an exception, or as Iakus suggested, it may differ from country to country.

[Divine Justinia V]

Yes.

[wcholcombe]

I believe that was just the views of the elves in Halamshiral. It's the only city in Orlais where the city elves are more numerous than humans. I think the other Orlesian cities do have alienages.

Lemet says "He'd heard in Ferelden, and maybe even in other parts of Orlais, the elves were kept locked up in small sections of the city called Alienages."

 

Briala herself says the slum when entering the poorer parts of Val Royeux where the elves live. She also mentions that elves are allowed to own shops in the merchant district in Val Royeux, which I don't recall being the case in Denerim? 

[AresKeith]

Yes.

 

No.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Not really. It has an interest in promoting it's ideas but than most cultures do. Course as with any establishment it has the potential to be abused by various forms of zealots. I'm looking at you Petrice!

[Steelcan]

No.

perhaps in practice. but not theory

[Iakus]

Lemet says "He'd heard in Ferelden, and maybe even in other parts of Orlais, the elves were kept locked up in small sections of the city called Alienages."

 

Briala herself says the slum when entering the poorer parts of Val Royeux where the elves live. She also mentions that elves are allowed to own shops in the merchant district in Val Royeux, which I don't recall being the case in Denerim? 

 

Halamshiral has an elven majority and the humans live in what sounds like a gated community.

 

Denerim allows elven merchants.  They just have to be careful not to draw too much attention to themselves.  Elves being allowed to own shops in Val Royeux was, a believe one of Celene's reforms and thus a recent allowance.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Lemet says "He'd heard in Ferelden, and maybe even in other parts of Orlais, the elves were kept locked up in small sections of the city called Alienages."

 

Briala herself says the slum when entering the poorer parts of Val Royeux where the elves live. She also mentions that elves are allowed to own shops in the merchant district in Val Royeux, which I don't recall being the case in Denerim? 

They can i guess like elves everywhere problem are peoples that will burn such shops or homes that elve will get.I doubt that in orlais situation is better as they have much more riots that fereleden and are killed as initiation not mention that nobles can get away with more than in ferelden.   

[wcholcombe]

Halamshiral has an elven majority and the humans live in what sounds like a gated community.

 

Denerim allows elven merchants.  They just have to be careful not to draw too much attention to themselves.  Elves being allowed to own shops in Val Royeux was, a believe one of Celene's reforms and thus a recent allowance.

Yes owning the shops in the merchant quarter was a recent reform of Celene's, but it is still the case.  They have been able to own property and warehouses and such in the slums the whole time.  Again if we are going by what was presented in TME, Alienage is never used or said by anyone in reference to a section of Val Royeux, nor is there mention of gates or walls closing off the area.  Is it the poorer section yes, but it is entirely possible that those who live in Ferelden are just as guilty as any of us in stating that where we live is better then where others live.

 

 

They can i guess like elves everywhere problem are peoples that will burn such shops or homes that elve will get.I doubt that in orlais situation is better as they have much more riots that fereleden and are killed as initiation not mention that nobles can get away with more than in ferelden.   

Actually in Ferelden they have to live in the Alienage.  What initiation are they killed for?  In Ferelden you don't even have to be a noble to kill an elf-It is illegal to kill a human to protect an elf under kings law in Ferelden.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Lemet says "He'd heard in Ferelden, and maybe even in other parts of Orlais, the elves were kept locked up in small sections of the city called Alienages."

 

Briala herself says the slum when entering the poorer parts of Val Royeux where the elves live. She also mentions that elves are allowed to own shops in the merchant district in Val Royeux, which I don't recall being the case in Denerim? 

 

But he also says that "Here in the Dales" the elves are the majority. And Halamshiral is the only major city in the Dales. Elves are legally allowed to leave the alienages to live in the rest of the city in Ferelden. But human mobs invariably drive them away or kill them.

[GreyLycanTrope]

What's Petrice have to do with this though? She worked with elves. Albeit insane ones. But elves nonetheless.

Mainly her anti-qunari agenda. Using an insane individual of a different minority to do her dirty work doesn't really mean she's particularly pro elf, Dalish aren't exactly devout Andratreans either.

[Iakus]

Yes owning the shops in the merchant quarter was a recent reform of Celene's, but it is still the case.  They have been able to own property and warehouses and such in the slums the whole time.  Again if we are going by what was presented in TME, Alienage is never used or said by anyone in reference to a section of Val Royeux, nor is there mention of gates or walls closing off the area.  Is it the poorer section yes, but it is entirely possible that those who live in Ferelden are just as guilty as any of us in stating that where we live is better then where others live.

 

 

There is a codex entry claiming the Val Royeux alienage holds ten thousands elves in an area roughly the size of Denerim's market

[TheKomandorShepard]

.Actually in Ferelden they have to live in the Alienage.  What initiation are they killed for?  In Ferelden you don't even have to be a noble to kill an elf-It is illegal to kill a human to protect an elf under kings law in Ferelden.

 

They can move out it is even said by elf in codex (yes elf from ferelden) problem are other peoples that may do problems. Well i doubt that it is legal in orlais and as i said ferelden had perhaps 2 riots in long time second because arl how took power and well guy wasn't sane.Aren't that elves killed by chevaliers?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

There is a codex entry claiming the Val Royeux alienage holds ten thousands elves in an area roughly the size of Denerim's market

 

To be fair that was just a unverified story even in the codex.

[Iakus]

To be fair that was just a unverified story even in the codex.

 

True.  But the implication is that Val Royeux, like pretty much every other Andrastren city, has an alienage.  And thiers is a big one.

[ShadowLordXII]

Preaching to the choir here.

 

While the Chantry isn't directly oppressing non-humans especially elves. They are quick to turn a blind eye to such injustice, just look at the conditions of the Orlesian alienages in Orlais, the Capital of the Chantry. Didn't the Divine force the empress to put-down a revolt of one of the alienages?

 

One reason why it needs to burn.