95 réponses à ce sujet

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Heh. So his ability to use certain weapons effectively mysteriously comes and goes?

 

Yep. Along with the actual weapons he's using as well. One second, Biotic Shepard has an Avenger in the cutscene. Cut to gameplay... then it's gone!

[ImaginaryMatter]

Yep. Along with the actual weapons he's using as well. One second, Biotic Shepard has an Avenger in the cutscene. Cut to gameplay... then it's gone!

 

I always liked it when Shepard used another Assault Rifle, then holstered that Assault Rifle during cutscenes to use the Avenger.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I always liked it when Shepard used another Assault Rifle, then holstered that Assault Rifle during cutscenes to use the Avenger.

 

They all did that, but ME3 was by far the most standout for that.

[CrutchCricket]

Sidearms (we don't call them pistols) are something that aren't really touched upon in standard military training (MP's are trained with them, as are all officers, but standard Infantry joes actually aren't deployed with or trained on them). Same with larger rifles, like a DMR, or sniper rifles. Of course, most Soldiers are encouraged to practice with a firearm on their own free-time, and given the near obsession with the Second Amendment that you see from military members, there are a lot of self-trained individuals out there. But to back you up, when I went to Field Artillery for 13F (Fire Support Specialist, aka Artillery Spotter for the layman) One Station Unit Training (Basic Combat Training and Advanced Individual Training (AKA job training)) in late-May of 2006 at the ripe old age of 17, I was trained and qualified on the M-16A2 Rifle, the M4 Carbine, the M249 Squad Automatic Weapon, the M240 family of 7.62mm Machine Guns, the M203 40mm Grenade Launcher, the M2 Browning .50 Caliber Machine Gun (my baby), the Mk 19 40mm Automatic Grenade Launcher, the AT4 CS 84mm shoulder-fired unguided AT Rocket Launcher, the M67 Grenade, and basic familiarization (as a 13F Fire Support Specialist (aka Fister), I was lucky to get this) with the FGM-148 Javelin, which we never got to fire since 1 missile costs $78k. As a Fister, our primary weapon was the M4 or M-16, depending on what unit you were in. When I went to Military Intelligence AIT in December of 2006 (I switch branches after I got back from OSUT), we only qualified a few times on the M4, M249, and M240B. When I deployed to Afghanistan in June of 2007, we got additional training on the Benelli M4 Super 90 family of Semi-automatic Shotguns for CQC and room clearing. Technically, it's considered a war crime to fire a shotgun in combat, so we use it for 'special applications' such as shooting the hinges off doors (and totally not at any insurgent or combatant who might be on the other side inside the fatal funnel). We got screwed on training for the Remington M870 in OSUT because it rained too hard both days we were supposed to learn.

 

When I went to the Leadership Development and Assessment Course (LDAC) at JBLM in 2011 just prior to Commissioning, I officially qualified on the M9 (a really shitty handgun).

 

But yeah, Carbines (not AR's) are the primary bread and butter of the U.S. Army. The M4 is basically a shorter, lighter, slightly less powerful version of the M-16. The M-16 is being phased out in the Army (the Marines use the A4 variant) in lieu of the M4.

 

Wow. The other thing I forgot to mention was the irony of insisting on class-exclusive weapons training for the basic firearms but having no problem with using a grenade launcher, a rocket launcher, a flamethrower, a "freezethrower", an electric based weapon, a beam weapon of completely alien design and a portable nuke, all without a sweat. But looking at your list of weapons in basic, I guess that's a moot point.

 

In any case based on your reported experience I think a Shepard of any class could plausibly be qualified and proficient in any weapon except perhaps snipers. ARs in basic, shotguns as situational (and geez, it's really a war crime to fire one in combat? Did not know that.), pistols as an officer. What about snipers? Do you have to be in a designated unit or career path to train and qualify? Or can you do it on an elective basis? And going to admit to RL firearm noobery here, but what's the technical difference between a carbine and AR?

[von uber]

Sorry, but... fister? Really?

God I'm childish

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Sorry, but... fister? Really?

God I'm childish

 

So's the Army. You get paid to be a child and play ****-**** games on a daily basis. Then you become an Officer. And you get to play bureaucratic ****-**** games on a daily basis and pretend that you don't.

 

Artillery. The King of Battle. 

 

Infantry. The Queen of Battle. And they wear it with pride.

 

Because the King put's it where the Queen wants it.

[CrutchCricket]

Sorry, but... fister? Really?

God I'm childish

 

Hey I may not like how the military thinks on certain matters (as Massively and I have discussed before) but if there's one non-combat thing I respect them for it's the lack of fucks they give about political correctness.

[von uber]

Um.. it's not political correctness...

[CrutchCricket]

Um.. it's not political correctness...

 

Really? What were you thinking of?

[von uber]

Eh nevermind, family forum and all that

[CrutchCricket]

Exactly.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Wow. The other thing I forgot to mention was the irony of insisting on class-exclusive weapons training for the basic firearms but having no problem with using a grenade launcher, a rocket launcher, a flamethrower, a "freezethrower", an electric based weapon, a beam weapon of completely alien design and a portable nuke, all without a sweat. But looking at your list of weapons in basic, I guess that's a moot point.

 

In any case based on your reported experience I think a Shepard of any class could plausibly be qualified and proficient in any weapon except perhaps snipers. ARs in basic, shotguns as situational (and geez, it's really a war crime to fire one in combat? Did not know that.), pistols as an officer. What about snipers? Do you have to be in a designated unit or career path to train and qualify? Or can you do it on an elective basis? And going to admit to RL firearm noobery here, but what's the technical difference between a carbine and AR?

 

He's a Special Operations Soldier. He's going to be qualified Expert on everything; They get all the training, and you have to be the best to get all the training.

 

Prospective Sniper candidates, as far as I remember, have to complete either Air Assault or Airborne school, they have to have a 240 or above out of 300 on their PT, and I don't remember the other qualifications. It was never in the books for me; I never had the eyes for it, even though you can have glasses, and as an Officer, I can't be a sniper anyway since we're considered too important to spend our time on such a specialized task (we can still go to the school, we just can't ever actually do anything with it beyond commanding a Sniper Platoon (the same as commanding any other platoon) unless we go Special Forces or Delta). They have a thing about them on Surviving The Cut on the Discovery Channel; I admire their mentality and skill (they are bona fide killers actively trained to murder people callously and without remorse or guilt, and one of the few places where sociopaths/psychopaths are actively sought out for their capability to be such), but I also am not the guy who would want to spend weeks in a field surrounded by hostile forces (yes, they really do do that) barely moving for days on end. Being in the field for more than a week sucks. They go to Ft. Benning or Camp Robinson, and if they successfully complete the School, they can go back to their unit and disseminate the skills there, or continue on with training in a Sniper Platoon and serve in a Recon unit. It's like any School in the Army. The purpose isn't just to take prospective candidates into their ranks, but to teach students their skills so that they can return to their unit with increased skills (and increased opportunities) and to teach their fellow Soldiers the skills they acquire. Like TOP GUN for the Navy Pilots; Each Squadron would send their best pilot (and WSO if they flew the F-18F or F-18D) to the school, and when he completed it, he'd return and disseminate the skills to the rest of the Squadron. Usually, you have to score within the top 10 percent of your class to continue on to advanced or specialized training to actually be a full on Sniper/instructor/etc. I don't know if that's the actual numbers the Sniper School uses (they have a HUGE washout rate) for who they keep and who graduates and returns to their unit. I think it works similar to Ranger School, where you have both a Ranger School for exceptional Soldiers to go and earn the Ranger tab, and Ranger Indoctrination, where you actually go to be assessed for assignment to the 75th Ranger Regiment. Ditto for Special Forces; they have a school for Soldiers to go to, and an actual assessment course for those who are actually on track to becoming Special Forces Soldiers. You have to go to the schools before you qualify for the more in-depth, specialized training.

 

I completely skipped Platoon DM's. The Platoon Designated Marksman (or Squad for some units) is the Soldier who is tasked with engaging enemy forces out to about 500 meters with reliable, accurate, and rapid fire. Basically the Platoon Sharpshooter. They're armed with a more powerful variant of the M-16 or the M-14. Our DM's usually were selected by the PSG based on qualification scores, skill with a weapon, and a few classes taught for the purpose of longer ranged combat.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Hey I may not like how the military thinks on certain matters (as Massively and I have discussed before) but if there's one non-combat thing I respect them for it's the lack of fucks they give about political correctness.

 

The Fister Creed:

 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

 And going to admit to RL firearm noobery here, but what's the technical difference between a carbine and AR?

 

Historically, a carbine is a separate type of firearm from a rifle. In layman's terms, it's a scaled-down rifle with a shorter length and lighter weight, and is typically a lot easier to handle. They usually fire the same ammunition as whatever rifle they're scaled down from; For example, the M4 is the carbine variant of the M-16 Rifle. The M4 is shorter, lighter, and much easier to handle, while still firing the same NATO 5.56mm cartridge. 

 

The drawbacks of a carbine are less power and less range. In the urban environments of Iraq, the range problem was mitigated as most firefights were at 200m ranges or less, right inside the sweet-spot for the M4. 

[themikefest]

I don't worry about the weight when I play. The only class I use more than one weapon is soldier. Assault and sniper.

[AlexMBrennan]

False. See: cutscenes.

Who cares what happens in cut scenes? Do you conclude that Shepard can magically conjure weapons because he keeps changing weapon models, or pulling avengers out of his rear? 

 

Also by your logic if I spec out of tactical cloak I'm an infiltrator "in name only" i.e. only because I chose it at the character creation.

I don't think you understand what words mean. I think that it would be realistic if class was a result of powers you choose (you start out as a grunt, and become an infiltrator if through appropriate training) rather than being allocated a class by the recruiter ("Bob's gonna be a sniper, so he doesn't get any assault rifle training", which is how ME works).

 

IMHO you Shepard should get designated an "infiltrator" if he chooses to forgo brute force and heavy armour in favor of stealth and precision, rather than getting that label at the start and not being able to fire an assault rifle as a result thus forcing him into a stealthy combat style. 

[Kabooooom]

Its been awhile since I played ME3- but fully upgraded (with all optional power boosts/cooldowns) and with inferno armor, I think I was getting like 180% cool down and I would carry a sniper rifle, SMG and one other weapon. I'll have to double check that, but it was crazy fast. Barely had any trouble with it at all.

[Cknarf]

 

 Even the pseudo-socialist liberal/totalitarian extremist I am who is against the Second Amendment, I own a Colt AR-15 (civilian M-16), a Springfield M1A (civilian M-14), a Smith & Wesson M&P handgun (I have a full kit for this since it's so modular), and a Walther P22. I'm a hypocrite on this.

This made me lol.


Anyways, The weight system doesn't bother me too much as an engineer, since I rarely use weapons.  Incenerate/Overload/sniper rifle.  repeat as necessary.

[CrutchCricket]

Who cares what happens in cut scenes? Do you conclude that Shepard can magically conjure weapons because he keeps changing weapon models, or pulling avengers out of his rear?

 

No, I conclude he can fire a gun because... I see him fire a gun.

The changing models I attribute to dev resource recycling shenanigans.
 
 

I don't think you understand what words mean. I think that it would be realistic if class was a result of powers you choose (you start out as a grunt, and become an infiltrator if through appropriate training) rather than being allocated a class by the recruiter ("Bob's gonna be a sniper, so he doesn't get any assault rifle training", which is how ME works).
 
IMHO you Shepard should get designated an "infiltrator" if he chooses to forgo brute force and heavy armour in favor of stealth and precision, rather than getting that label at the start and not being able to fire an assault rifle as a result thus forcing him into a stealthy combat style.

 

Well then none of the ME games are for you. In all three you pick a class at the start and the game assigns you powers. Tough luck.

Not that I think your way is the best fit in any case. It'd be fine if we were rolling a character right out of training. But Shepard is already an established whatever-you-make-him story-wise so the generic grunt phase would be pretty needless, even out of place.

[Farangbaa]

Heh. So his ability to use certain weapons effectively mysteriously comes and goes?

 

I was too late to make a screenshot, but somewhere during Zaeed's LM (or Kasumi's... I honestly don't remember) my adept Shepard barged in with an assault rifle. I thought the cutscene weapon thingy was an ME3 thing, but I guess not.

[grey_wind]

Eh, I'm not too fond of the weapon system. It completely nerfed the soldier and allowed power based classes (especially those with biotics) to become ridiculously overpowered.

 

But it was popular amongst the majority of the fanbase, so I guess it's going to stay.

 

I only hope they just remove the weight restriction for the Soldier class. Its implementation for that class was nonsensical.

[Excella Gionne]

It's a great addition. It also evens the overpoweredness of the game. The Soldier class is lucky for having a 100 point Weight capacity...

[SporkFu]

If I'm playing a soldiershep I don't worry about weapon weight anyway. Full loadout, shoot first, shoot fast, kill everything in sight.  

[Excella Gionne]

If I'm playing a soldiershep I don't worry about weapon weight anyway. Full loadout, shoot first, shoot fast, kill everything in sight.  

I usually take like 2 weapons with me only...but Infiltrator, that's where the damage is!

[SporkFu]

I usually take like 2 weapons with me only...but Infiltrator, that's where the damage is!

sniper rifle or shotgun for your infiltrator?