The Quarians were the aggressors in both their wars against the Geth. By any definition, they were defending themselves.
Question about the Genophage, how long before you think the Salarians create a new one? Anyone really think they didn't start taking steps the second they found those fertile females? An unbound Krogan race is just too big a risk to not have a plan ready.
The Quarians were the aggressors in both their wars against the Geth. By any definition, they were defending themselves.
On that we agree.From the point of view we get from Legion, I'd say it was more ignorance than anything else. Makes sense for a race that just became sentient, but I dunno.
Only thing safe to say is that neither side is in the right, and both sides need a firm application of a size 12 to their asses to get their **** straightened out.
Guest_xray16_*
At which point they became - unfortunately - very human-like.
Which (in classic sci-fi drama format) with characters as metaphor for discussion about the current world, was exactly as expected, and equally disappointing.
Point is, that Geth actions started out as self-defense in the Morning War, but quickly turned into a one-sided slaughter and eventually full on genocide against the Quarians. As soon as civilians were killed by the Geth, they lost their claim of self-defense.
Assuming the Quarians were not being half as stupid as we've seen them in 2/3 and do something like arm their civilians, then yeah that would be true.
Assuming the Quarians were not being half as stupid as we've seen them in 2/3 and do something like arm their civilians, then yeah that would be true.
According to the book, they weren't all armed. They had "neither the numbers nor the ability" to stand up to the Geth. A bulletin post-Thessia described the war as an "unthinkable slaughter."Assuming the Quarians were not being half as stupid as we've seen them in 2/3 and do something like arm their civilians, then yeah that would be true.
Are you sure? I understand if this is the case for war crimes, but deliberately targeting civilians certainly isn't self-defense.@Vergil - Targeting civilians by itself does not qualify, as anyone in the military will tell you (collateral damage, partisan activity)
Yeah, some writers may try to tone it down as much as possible, but the way the war was described previously, it matches the definition of genocide quite well.But I fully agree it was a genocide, as did Drew Karpyshyn, even if later writers did their damnedest to never mention it again.
I agree, it isn't.Are you sure? I understand if this is the case for war crimes, but deliberately targeting civilians certainly isn't self-defense.
Tried that before, never works.So how about that genophage.
Tried that before, never works.
It's never been as contentious a topic for some reason.
Tough choice. I honestly think a population explosion would be a disaster for the Krogan once the brief euphoria of the cure wore off. Sort of like I expect the Quarians will quickly find living on Rannoch just as strenuous as fleet life, at least in the early years. As the Krogan population grows, they'll rediscover that they're living in an irradiated desert wasteland which can't feed them and need to emigrate again. I generally go with the cure, but even with both Wrex and Eve I'd think it appropriate to partition some territory off for them and quarantine them to those systems, keeping them demilitarized for however many centuries it takes to find a new equilibrium before they reintroduce themselves to the galaxy.Do you agree with it? I did at first but when I played as a renegade the confrontation with Wrex made me think a little different.
Quarians have a tendency to try and force their people into fighting. The civilians seem to have a hero complex aswell.
https://www.youtube....L3cC5BaooE#t=60
https://www.youtube....jFWdSCWFc#t=662
Civilians running around with guns during Morning wars or partisipating in hostile invasions tend to get shot.
So a bunch of civilians getting trapped behind enemy lines and fighting for their lives proves that every single man, women, and child was an armed participant in the Morning War. That sounds very similar to a certain Auld Wulf. 
You're talking to the guy who thinks Veetor was some kind of black operator who pretended he was crazy when cornered; that the Quarians assisted the Collectors in attacking human colonies by disabling their security systems in exchange for Reaper tech.So a bunch of civilians getting trapped behind enemy lines and fighting for their lives proves that every single man, women, and child was an armed participant in the Morning War. That sounds very similar to a certain Auld Wulf.
So a bunch of civilians getting trapped behind enemy lines and fighting for their lives proves that every single man, women, and child was an armed participant in the Morning War. That sounds very similar to a certain Auld Wulf.
The idea that everyone not taking part in the fighting was standing next to someone who was is itself headcanon.Whoever wasn't wielding a gun was probably hiding behind one who had a gun, kind of gets them caught in the crossfire. Children with no food and severe health issues likely die anyway. Shepard never seems to have a problem with it, neither a single person we talk to ingame.Anything else would be headcannon by going back to previous arguments.
Tough choice. I honestly think a population explosion would be a disaster for the Krogan once the brief euphoria of the cure wore off. Sort of like I expect the Quarians will quickly find living on Rannoch just as strenuous as fleet life, at least in the early years. As the Krogan population grows, they'll rediscover that they're living in an irradiated desert wasteland which can't feed them and need to emigrate again. I generally go with the cure, but even with both Wrex and Eve I'd think it appropriate to partition some territory off for them and quarantine them to those systems, keeping them demilitarized for however many centuries it takes to find a new equilibrium before they reintroduce themselves to the galaxy.
You're talking to the guy who thinks Veetor was some kind of black operator who pretended he was crazy when cornered; that the Quarians assisted the Collectors in attacking human colonies by disabling their security systems in exchange for Reaper tech.
*facepalm*
Whoever wasn't wielding a gun was probably hiding behind one who had a gun, kind of gets them caught in the crossfire. Children with no food and severe health issues likely die anyway. Shepard never seems to have a problem with it, neither a single person we talk to ingame.
Anything else would be headcannon by going back to previous arguments.
Yep 99% of the population was definitely caught in the cross-fire. It's not like the Geth killed peaceful envoys that were sent to them. Also you're telling me the galaxy's fear of the Geth was not caused by the deaths of millions of Quarians? I'm pretty sure the Geth's nondiscrimination about engagement and near destruction of the Quarian race affected the Galaxy's views about them obviously painting their race as killing machines with no remorse. Oh but I forgot you abide by your own head-cannon and believe the Geth to be the living incarnation of innocence and the Quarians are devil suit rats who are the cause of everything evil in Mass Effect.
Though they didn't ever arm their civilians per se, only their civilian ships, which makes a major difference.
Arming the Civilian Fleet, which effectively would have been housing every non-combatant, turns them into legitimate targets. This is why I point out how stupid the Quarians like to be. They clearly knew what would happen and just didnt care so long as they could have more guns to point at the Geth.
According to the book, they weren't all armed. They had "neither the numbers nor the ability" to stand up to the Geth. A bulletin post-Thessia described the war as an "unthinkable slaughter."
Important distinction a lot of people overlook: the Morning War took place on the ground, not in space. On the ground, people who don't want to get blown up can at least try to get away from the fighting. That isn't an option when you're living in a prison-cell sized metal cubicle in the cargo hold of a ship in space which only has enough escape pods for the twenty crew it was designed for - not the 200 people who call it home.
That was a bit of a hyperbolic example of the stupidity I was pointing at, though effectively that did happen with the CF being armed like every other military ship in the fleet.
It's entirely possible that the Geth could have attacked every man woman and child Quarian and killed them. That's basically what the Quarians do to the Geth in ME3 when they attack the Dyson bubble, so its not beyond possibility that the writers could make that the plot of the Morning War.
With the concept of Rules of Engagement probably not being something they understood, especially since Genocide wasnt something they had their minds wrapped around by time the Quarians turned tail, its possible that the Geth were effectively targeting anyone that wasnt working to actively help them. Again though, alot of what the Geth did in the Morning War could be attributed to ignorance due to recently gained sentience.
I lub them Krogan. 800 lbs of badassitude.Assuming we can believe anything we're shown in the Consensus at all, of course.
So how 'bout dem Krogan?
Arming the Civilian Fleet, which effectively would have been housing every non-combatant, turns them into legitimate targets. This is why I point out how stupid the Quarians like to be. They clearly knew what would happen and just didnt care so long as they could have more guns to point at the Geth.
That was a bit of a hyperbolic example of the stupidity I was pointing at, though effectively that did happen with the CF being armed like every other military ship in the fleet.
With the concept of Rules of Engagement probably not being something they understood, especially since Genocide wasnt something they had their minds wrapped around by time the Quarians turned tail, its possible that the Geth were effectively targeting anyone that wasnt working to actively help them. Again though, alot of what the Geth did in the Morning War could be attributed to ignorance due to recently gained sentience.
The civilian ships would have been targets any way, I don't think the Geth or the Reapers would have respected the difference.
As for the Geth, we honestly don't know. Whatever the Geth's reasons, I think the only thing we can say is that they didn't exterminate the Quarians and then enforced their isolation because of any feelings like revenge or malice, similar to how they didn't spare the Quarians because of something like mercy or pity. I don't necessarily agree with the all of the Geth's actions as their situation in all the games were brought on by their own actions. Ultimately, I feel sad for the entire situation because it seems like so much bloodshed (oil splatter?) and misery could have been avoided if things turned out slightly differently.
Assuming we can believe anything we're shown in the Consensus at all, of course.
So how 'bout dem Krogan?
I do always wonder why the Tuchunka arc isn't any where near as contentious as Rannoch.
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