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[ImaginaryMatter]

Given the Salarian's and Asari's withholdings I think the entire Council system should be done away with and replaced. Their governments punishment can be incorporated into this.

[Deathsaurer]

That totally isn't happening without another war or everyone pulling out of it. Both of which would totally wreck the galactic economy which is going to need a looooooong time to recover from the Reaper war.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Too bad that they dont do stand up fights and even a damaged Turian and Alliance fleet could deal with the Salarians and the criminal acts they get caught red handed in. If they tried to take singular power, they'd be crushed in an instant by the rest of the galaxy banding together and turning on them.

The Salarians had the second most dreadnoughts in the galaxy before the war, and now all of them are as stealthy as the Normandy. 

Geth are dead, Quarians can't do anything about it, the Turian fleets are broken and Palaven is razed, the Alliance fleet is destroyed for all but a few cruisers and a Dreadnought, the Asari fleets are also damaged and wouldn't fight the Salarians.

The Salarians won the Reaper war. Sur'Kesh never even got hit.  

[Deathsaurer]

The Salarians had the second most dreadnoughts in the galaxy before the war, and now all of them are as stealthy as the Normandy. 

Geth are dead, Quarians can't do anything about it, the Turian fleets are broken and Palaven is razed, the Alliance fleet is destroyed for all but a few cruisers and a Dreadnought, the Asari fleets are also damaged and wouldn't fight the Salarians.

The Salarians won the Reaper war. Sur'Kesh never even got hit.  

Sur'Kesh was totally being sieged, just look at the final galaxy map. You also shouldn't assume the Geth are dead in everyones game. Or the Rachni for that matter.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Tell me, did you turn up your nose at the Thanix Cannon upgrade in ME2? If not, then this indignation is hypocritical.

 

Nope. Spectre. Supralegal authority pretty much protects me from any recourse in regards to that.

 

Also the Thanix Cannon was getting pretty widespread to start with. You cant keep that hidden if you tried when you go to have them in any ship that can use them. Unlike the Normandy's stealth systems which were effectively on one ship prior to 3.

 

Sur'Kesh was totally being sieged, just look at the final galaxy map. You also shouldn't assume the Geth are dead in everyones game. Or the Rachni for that matter.

 

And the First Fleet's stealth is useless in the final battle, and they were unlikely to get away without losses.

[AlexMBrennan]

The Galaxy will need the Salarians' industrial base, ships, and resources. The Salarians should become the new rulers.

And all the turians will happily follow orders from cowardly salerians who did nothing whilst Palaven was savaged by Reapers? Sure, they might have the most intact economy and military but unless they establish a military dictatorship to keep the other races down I don't see this as a long term outcome

[NoMoreCalibrations]

There will definitely be backlash. No question. Perhaps not drastic backlash, but it's likely that the races will just look at the Salarians differently.

 

It could be similar to the Human/Turian relationship post-First Contact War. The other races could look at the Salarians and say "Where were you when my homeworld burned? Why should we help you now?"

 

Thanks to the endings, however, this outcome is probably only possible with the Control ending. With Synthesis, everyone thinks on a different level and probably wouldn't give two craps about such petty thoughts. With Destroy, there are no mass relays anymore so have fun finding your way back to Sur'Kesh at all, suckers!

 

Lol

[guigaccess]

I didn't saw this thread -___- will move my post from the other thread to this one:

 

People saying the salarian would lose their place on the council because of what Linron did... why would that be?

 

Because they didn't sent all their forces to help with the Crucible when asked? If so, the asari held back for much longer.

All the races only helped after their demands were fulfilled. The turian refused to help until the krogan landed on Palaven. The krogan refused to help until the genophage was cured. And the asari... they only provided help once they didn't had a world to protect anymore.

The turian and the krogan both only helped because they got what they wanted, why would the salarian be punished for not helping when their request was not attended? They did exactly the same thing as the turian and the krogan - or not, since in the end they end up sending help anyways, just not the First Fleet.

 

Because they sabotaged the Shroud?

The Shroud was sabotaged 1000 ago, when the Krogan were an enemy and everyone wanted their destruction. The turian did exactly the same thing by planting a bomb in Tuchanka and hiding this fact all this time, if one will be seen as a crime the other would be as well.

 

Because Linron hid the fact the Shroud was sabotaged?

SHE told Shepard about it. She could be quiet and hoped Mordin would never find out, she could talk with Mordin who was one of the salarian. But she came out to Shepard, a commander of the alliance, and revealed the fact asking for help.

If the cure IS sabotaged in the end, the salarian is as guilty of it as the humans since the dalatrass was behind the act as much as the alliance through Shepard (who actually was the one who made the final call). She was smart enough to reveal it to Shepard instead of Mordin, making sure any fault would be share with the alliance/humanity.

If the cure is not sabotaged, doesn't make sense for any punishment. In the end, Linron actually helped by revealing the sabotage. "Mordin would find it out anyway" doesn't seem like the kind of argument that would have any weigh if we are talking about punishing a dalatrass or a council race.

Also, if we are talking about hiding crucial information as a crime, the asari would be in a much worse state with the whole Vendetta thing.

 

Because they stole Nomandy's technology?

This is the only one that makes sense, but seriously thinking this could lead to the salarian being removed from the council or even the dalatrass being demoted is an exageration. It is not big of a deal specially when you think the whole universe would be recovering from a war that decimated the worlds. They have much bigger things to worry now. Add to that the fact the Mass relay are destroyed and the galaxy would only be put together enough to discuss this kind of subject after some decades, making it even more senseless to argue over something minor like that (and Linron would probably be dead by then, anyway, given the salarian short life span).

And would the humans even dare to call the "they stole the Reaper IFF technology from us" card? As I see it, keeping the IFF technology in secrecy in face of a war against the Reapers is a crime as grave as the asari hiding Vendetta.

 

In the end, the salarian didn't made anything the other races didn't. If they will be punished for anything, it means everyone will be for other factors and it would be ridiculous in the end. The krogan wanting revenge for a fake cure? Yeah. Council banishing the salarian for that? Nah.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

The Salarians don't need any help. Sur'Kesh was hit on the last day of the war. 

Does anyone understand what "logistics" mean? No race can rebuild without heavy machinery, manufacturing plants, and the likes. The galaxy is going to be in so much debt to the Salarian Union that they can't do anything. The rest don't even have any fleets remaining. 

[guigaccess]

Well, the salarians are remarkably absent in the epilogue. The reconstruction of the mass relays if you chose the destroy ending, the new citadel fleet...we only see asari, turians and humans working together to "restore what we lost".

I really doubt humans or asari will go around pointing fingers over issues that came to light over the war. But I can see the salarians isolating themselves from the rest of the galaxy after the war or maybe a civil war on Sur'kesh...or Bioware simply didn't want to create a salarian ship model

The reason the salarian are absent is because the epilogue shows squadmates. With Mordin dead, there is no salarian squadmate to be shown.

 

But if he survives, we can see him in the epilogue (26:51):

[I Tsunayoshi I]

I didn't saw this thread -___- will move my post from the other thread to this one:

 

People saying the salarian would lose their place on the council because of what Linron did... why would that be?

 

Because they didn't sent all their forces to help with the Crucible when asked? If so, the asari held back for much longer.

All the races only helped after their demands were fulfilled. The turian refused to help until the krogan landed on Palaven. The krogan refused to help until the genophage was cured. And the asari... they only provided help once they didn't had a world to protect anymore.

The turian and the krogan both only helped because they got what they wanted, why would the salarian be punished for not helping when their request was not attended? They did exactly the same thing as the turian and the krogan - or not, since in the end they end up sending help anyways, just not the First Fleet.

 

Because they sabotaged the Shroud?

The Shroud was sabotaged 1000 ago, when the Krogan were an enemy and everyone wanted their destruction. The turian did exactly the same thing by planting a bomb in Tuchanka and hiding this fact all this time, if one will be seen as a crime the other would be as well.

 

Because Linron hid the fact the Shroud was sabotaged?

SHE told Shepard about it. She could be quiet and hoped Mordin would never find out, she could talk with Mordin who was one of the salarian. But she came out to Shepard, a commander of the alliance, and revealed the fact asking for help.

If the cure IS sabotaged in the end, the salarian is as guilty of it as the humans since the dalatrass was behind the act as much as the alliance through Shepard (who actually was the one who made the final call). She was smart enough to reveal it to Shepard instead of Mordin, making sure any fault would be share with the alliance/humanity.

If the cure is not sabotaged, doesn't make sense for any punishment. In the end, Linron actually helped by revealing the sabotage. "Mordin would find it out anyway" doesn't seem like the kind of argument that would have any weigh if we are talking about punishing a dalatrass or a council race.

Also, if we are talking about hiding crucial information as a crime, the asari would be in a much worse state with the whole Vendetta thing.

 

Because they stole Nomandy's technology?

This is the only one that makes sense, but seriously thinking this could lead to the salarian being removed from the council or even the dalatrass being demoted is an exageration. It is not big of a deal specially when you think the whole universe would be recovering from a war that decimated the worlds. They have much bigger things to worry now. Add to that the fact the Mass relay are destroyed and the galaxy would only be put together enough to discuss this kind of subject after some decades, making it even more senseless to argue over something minor like that (and Linron would probably be dead by then, anyway, given the salarian short life span).

And would the humans even dare to call the "they stole the Reaper IFF technology from us" card? As I see it, keeping the IFF technology in secrecy in face of a war against the Reapers is a crime as grave as the asari hiding Vendetta.

 

In the end, the salarian didn't made anything the other races didn't. If they will be punished for anything, it means everyone will be for other factors and it would be ridiculous in the end. The krogan wanting revenge for a fake cure? Yeah. Council banishing the salarian for that? Nah.

 

1: Linron's offer to sabotage put more risk on her than it does Shepard. If Shepard refuses, he can do her in twice over by letting the Krogan know she made the offer, and show the proof of it. Then turn that same proof over to the Council where the Salarians would be outnumbered since their councilor would have to recuse himself and their only possible supporter definitely outnumbered due to Humanity and Turians being in full disapproval. The ONLY way that the risk is shared is when Shepard agrees to the deal, which honestly opens Linron to more trouble to begin with once the First Fleet becomes known. Anything related to the sabotage offer getting out would effectively end her political career and leave her wide open for a coup to do so by force as she begins losing STG support after Tuchanka.

 

2: Stealing the plans for the Normandy's stealth systems and the Reaper IFF is a criminal offense, and it shouldnt be given a free pass. This is the infinitely greater issue to deal with because its no longer an internal matter for the Salarians, and would mostly likely lead to the harshest punishment in comparison to Linron losing power and her bloodline becoming mud considering what the politicking would leave her with once that is all over.

[DeinonSlayer]

Nope. Spectre. Supralegal authority pretty much protects me from any recourse in regards to that.
 
Also the Thanix Cannon was getting pretty widespread to start with. You cant keep that hidden if you tried when you go to have them in any ship that can use them. Unlike the Normandy's stealth systems which were effectively on one ship prior to 3.

Kodiak shuttles have that stealth tech too, and as we see, even the Krogan have those by this point. I could go on at some length about what I think of the Spectre program, and hiding behind that title, but this isn't the thread for it.

I'll reiterate what I said in the other thread: in a war of raw survival such as this one, this kind of litigious bollocks serves no purpose but to obstruct the war effort. It's directly counterproductive to preserving ourselves as a species. The violations of law to get angry about are the ones which obstruct, not aid, the war effort - we're letting all kinds of things slide (smuggling, etc.) because it's helpful to that end.

Some contrasting examples: Shepard can chew out Admiral Raan for upgrading the liveships with weaponry equivalent to a dreadnought, calling it a violation of the Treaty of Farixen (which limits the production of dreadnoughts - for every five the Turians produce, the Asari and Salarians are permitted three, and council associate races are permitted one). I would argue that the fact that the Quarians aren't even signatories to this treaty invalidates Shepard's complaints about it, but to cut straight to the point, should we really be b*tching about someone having too many dreadnoughts in a Reaper invasion?

Even if their armaments were illegal (debatable), in my book, that's an acceptable violation. It serves the war effort. By contrast, the Asari kept the beacon on Thessia secret when they, themselves, made it illegal for anyone to hoard Prothean tech. This was obstructive to the war effort. That's the kind of violation to get justifiably angry about.
 

And the First Fleet's stealth is useless in the final battle, and they were unlikely to get away without losses.

If it reduces losses and lets them keep fighting longer and more effectively, so much the better.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

It really seems as though the Salarians were the only race that prepared for the Reapers after the Battle of the Citadel. The Alliance arrests Shepard, the Asari sit on Thessia, and the Turians only start getting ready after Omega-4 when Garrus gets a token task force. 

The Quarians go charging at the Geth, which while reasonable, was rather foolish in the way they did it. 

Of course, the Volus build one of the most powerful ships in the galaxy. But it's the Salarians who prepared. 

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Kodiak shuttles have that stealth tech too, and as we see, even the Krogan have those by this point. I could go on at some length about what I think of the Spectre program, and hiding behind that title, but this isn't the thread for it.

I'll reiterate what I said in the other thread: in a war of raw survival such as this one, this kind of litigious bollocks serves no purpose but to obstruct the war effort. It's directly counterproductive to preserving ourselves as a species. The violations of law to get angry about are the ones which obstruct, not aid, the war effort - we're letting all kinds of things slide (smuggling, etc.) because it's helpful to that end.

Some contrasting examples: Shepard can chew out Admiral Raan for upgrading the liveships with weaponry equivalent to a dreadnought, calling it a violation of the Treaty of Farixen (which limits the production of dreadnoughts - for every five the Turians produce, the Asari and Salarians are permitted three, and council associate races are permitted one). I would argue that the fact that the Quarians aren't even signatories to this treaty invalidates Shepard's complaints about it, but to cut straight to the point, should we really be b*tching about someone having too many dreadnoughts in a Reaper invasion?

Even if their armaments were illegal (debatable), in my book, that's an acceptable violation. It serves the war effort. By contrast, the Asari kept the beacon on Thessia secret when they, themselves, made it illegal for anyone to hoard Prothean tech. This was obstructive to the war effort. That's the kind of violation to get justifiably angry about.

If it reduces losses and lets them keep fighting longer and more effectively, so much the better.

 

Wrong. The Stealth Tech was only on the one shuttle, and guess what, it was on the Normandy. Other Kodiak's outside of the Normandy's complement are standard models.

 

Shepard calling out the Quarians for the Treaty violation is valid, since they did get their chops busted over AI research regarding the Geth. And the risk of one race having that much firepower is not something to be sneezed at even if everyone wasnt at war. Quarian's attacked the Geth cause they felt like it and to make use of a new toy they made. Had they succeeded in taking Rannoch and wiping out the Geth like they planned, they would have had the single most powerful fleet in the galaxy that didnt belong to the Reapers. They could do as they please without a **** to give to anyone else at that point.

 

As for the Asari, if they hadnt already been buttfucked by the Reapers by time Shep learns of their hidden beacon, I'd be all for giving them their due punishment.

[DeinonSlayer]

Wrong. The Stealth Tech was only on the one shuttle, and guess what, it was on the Normandy. Other Kodiak's outside of the Normandy's complement are standard models.
 
Shepard calling out the Quarians for the Treaty violation is valid, since they did get their chops busted over AI research regarding the Geth. And the risk of one race having that much firepower is not something to be sneezed at even if everyone wasnt at war. Quarian's attacked the Geth cause they felt like it and to make use of a new toy they made. Had they succeeded in taking Rannoch and wiping out the Geth like they planned, they would have had the single most powerful fleet in the galaxy that didnt belong to the Reapers. They could do as they please without a **** to give to anyone else at that point.
 
As for the Asari, if they hadnt already been buttfucked by the Reapers by time Shep learns of their hidden beacon, I'd be all for giving them their due punishment.

I'd suggest reading the ME2 codex entry on the Kodiak again. "Active masking."

How is AI research in any way relevant to Farixen? On that note, the Council violated their own law regarding artificial intelligence - they loudly denounced the remaining sliver of the Quarian population before the entire galaxy for violating it, showed them to the airlock, and quietly exterminated the AI that they, themselves created (LOKIs seen in Citadel DLC - the only five fingered species on the galactic scene three hundred years ago were the Asari and (possibly) the Batarians, and of those two, only the Asari with their Council seat had a say in who gets a waiver to create AI).

Again, how are the Quarians violating the treaty if they aren't signatories to it? They're going to be cannibalizing a lot of their fleet in the course of resettling on Rannoch after the war (according to Tali). Given how few of them are left, I don't see them having any chance of taking on, say, a Turian fleet - nor do they have any impetus to do so. An irrational fear of the Quarians attacking... someone for... some reason... thus provoking retaliation which would likely be the end of their species, weighed against having more ships capable of fighting reapers? Screw Farixen.

In my book, the Quarians did exactly what I'd want them to do - arm up, take steps to ensure their noncombatants were both self-sufficient (not drawing on our resources) and out of the way (minimally safeguarding the survival of the species), in so doing enabling them to commit everything they have to the fight against the Reapers. Others should have followed their example instead of burying their heads in the sand - the Turians and humans should have been churning out dreadnoughts as fast as they could mine the metal.

[Steelcan]

the salarian military is supposedly backing the Alliance, while the politicians bicker

 

sadly this wasn't represented in War Assets

[I Tsunayoshi I]

the salarian military is supposedly backing the Alliance, while the politicians bicker

 

sadly this wasn't represented in War Assets

 

While true, the Salarians themselves were probably doing more to set themselves back a century or two between their thievery of tech that was classified for good reasons and having an active hand in trying to sabotage the war effort in interfering with the T-K Alliance.

[Typhrus]

Why has no one thought, that the Alliance or Turians purposefully leaked the technology to the Salarians?  If that was the case, then certainly someone higher up would have allowed such a venture to occur. Considering that the Humans and Turians have a 'cool' relationship with each other, it is remarkable that they even got into a joint venture like a stealth frigate of Human/Turian design. It isn't unreasonable that such back room dealings between such parties could also be extended to the Salarians.

The game also makes it clear that the Salarian military is happy to back the war effort, but must do it clandestinely because politicians, as usual, show how bad they are at dealing with a crisis such as the Reaper war. It is one of the few cases where its disappointing the councillor has no role in the politics of their own race (as in, they aren't the head of government, only the rep to the council). The codex to my mind, implied that the STG might be in a position to remove Linron from the primary Dalatrass position and put another family into power, one more amenable to their needs during the war or post war period.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Why has no one thought, that the Alliance or Turians purposefully leaked the technology to the Salarians?  If that was the case, then certainly someone higher up would have allowed such a venture to occur. Considering that the Humans and Turians have a 'cool' relationship with each other, it is remarkable that they even got into a joint venture like a stealth frigate of Human/Turian design. It isn't unreasonable that such back room dealings between such parties could also be extended to the Salarians

 

Considering the classified nature of the technology, anyone one that leaked the specs would have been guilty of treason or another serious offense. Orders or not in that regard as they would still be classified regardless of what someone else may have wanted to do.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Salarians shouldn't be punished, they just shouldn't get any of the spoils of war. Krogans and Humans and Turians and Asari will all easily claim dozens of new worlds for their people. The salarians will keep what they have, but they won't be getting any of the resulting trillion-credit military or civilian contracts that will be abundant in the wake of the reaper war. 

 

I do imagine that the Dalatrass will be removed though, as her inaction will be viewed as cowardice by not only her own people, but by the entire galaxy. 

 

The Asari really shouldnt get anything either considering the nature of the Prothean tech they were sitting on and hiding for centuries in full defiance of the law they put in effect.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

the salarian military is supposedly backing the Alliance, while the politicians bicker

 

sadly this wasn't represented in War Assets

 

If it wasn't represented in the War Assets it didn't happen. The Alliance may have gotten a call from someone in the military saying "we back you," but unless the Dalatrass gave the order to send in the ships it didn't happen. She didn't give the order.

 

The Turians committed only after you provided them with the Krogan to fight on their homeworld.

 

The Geth or the Quarians commit only after you've allowed one of them to kill the other side or made peace if that was possible.

 

And people are screaming about the Asari because of the beacon that Cerberus knew about since Mars and was just waiting for Shepard to go to Thessia and unlock it so they could steal Vendetta from him/her.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

If it wasn't represented in the War Assets it didn't happen. The Alliance may have gotten a call from someone in the military saying "we back you," but unless the Dalatrass gave the order to send in the ships it didn't happen. She didn't give the order.

 

The Turians committed only after you provided them with the Krogan to fight on their homeworld.

 

The Geth or the Quarians commit only after you've allowed one of them to kill the other side or made peace if that was possible.

 

And people are screaming about the Asari because of the beacon that Cerberus knew about since Mars and was just waiting for Shepard to go to Thessia and unlock it so they could steal Vendetta from him/her.

 

That last point makes the barest sense, and only if TIM knew that it could recognise an indoctrinated agent which would make it clam up in a hurry and deny them what they wanted. Then again, I think that point is moot and it was more of an inability to activate the damn thing on their own.

[Bardox9]

I think the Salarians should lose their council seat. Seems an apt punishment for the actions, or inactions, during the war. The Galaxy called on them and they ran away, yet they want a command position in galactic affairs? Ambassadorship sure, but council seat?? Me thinks no.

[Excella Gionne]

Esheel gives you the STG asset which is surprising, but I like Esheel more than Valern. Quentius looks scary though!