402 réponses à ce sujet

[ImaginaryMatter]

@Massive -why are you so protective over Cerberus?

 

To provide entertainment for the rest of us?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

omg lol. I just really gotta know why? Does my curiosity warrants death?

 

No, but you've proven in the past that it doesn't warrant a serious response either.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

To provide entertainment for the rest of us?

 

Not quite. Granted most people tend to think I'm trolling with Cerberus and supporting them.

 

They usually freak out a bit when I assure them that I am 100% serious in supporting them and their methods.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

that seems to be massively's area of expertise. defending cerberus.

@Deinonslayer
by all means post that vid, I never get tired of it.

 

And defending Miranda and tearing apart Ashley and the alliance. And defending the Geth, damning the Krogan, and screwing with David, though he tends to just ignore me now since that's the only way he can not have a brain aneurysm. I still remember the time I started calling out all of his logical fallacies and you could practically see the burning sparks coming out of his head.

[ImaginaryMatter]

And defending Miranda and tearing apart Ashley and the alliance. And defending the Geth, damning the Krogan, and screwing with David, though he tends to just ignore me now since that's the only way he can not have a brain aneurysm. I still remember the time I started calling out all of his logical fallacies and you could practically see the burning sparks coming out of his head.

 

Whatever happened to him. I was on a bit of a hiatus. Did he get banned in that time? Or does he just slink in and out of here?

[andy6915]

Whatever happened to him. I was on a bit of a hiatus. Did he get banned in that time? Or does he just slink in and out of here?

David is Bob from accounting. Literally, that's his new profile's username. So he was banned, technically, but he's still around thanks to a new identity. But like a certain Turian in ME2, he did a bad job of making himself disappear well enough for people not to know.

[DeinonSlayer]

And defending Miranda and tearing apart Ashley and the alliance. And defending the Geth, damning the Krogan, and screwing with David, though he tends to just ignore me now since that's the only way he can not have a brain aneurysm. I still remember the time I started calling out all of his logical fallacies and you could practically see the burning sparks coming out of his head.

Liked for the visual.

[RanetheViking]

N7.  I love the cool red and white racing stripe.

[Xilizhra]

Well Mr. United States JSF (lol), I find this to be a completely inaccurate assessment. It's hard to really gauge the actual effectiveness of either N7 or Cerberus soldiers (beyond what we see in ME3, who are indoctrinated drones for the most part, and shown to be rather effective when not facing the likes of Shepard), since there really isn't any material to assert what kinds of specialties and mission capabilities they have beyond Shepard, N7 MP players, Cerberus MP players, and Kai Leng, all of whom demonstrate incredible capability. Shepard of course qualifies for both N7 and Cerberus, seeing as he was both at two points in his life. But to catch up from my digression, you just pulled all of this out of your ass.

 

As for the Cerberus 'xenophobic master race bigots', which is hardly true and in fact slightly inversed considering alliance soldiers themselves (Ashley and Admiral Mikhailovich comes to mind here) are known for their own rather dismissive and prejudiced attitude towards aliens. In fact, as I recall, really only Shepard ever seems to be the only person in the alliance that consistently deals with aliens in any real capacity beyond Udina, whose motivations, abilities, and ideology are at your disposal to interpret.

You know, Miranda herself says that too many members of Cerberus only join them out of xenophobia.

 

In any case, I honestly don't like either. The Alliance is boring and Cerberus is evil. In IRL terms, I'd go with N7 because boring is better than evil for real life; as a story, I'd go with Cerberus provided I could steer them in a desirable direction. Truth be told, I'd have much rather preferred playing ME3 working simultaneously for the Council and Cerberus, and not the Alliance; I figured that Cerberus could have changed its mandate somewhat to be a general special affairs anti-Reaper task force, and possibly even started letting non-humans in.

[Cheviot]

 
To you perhaps, but to more skilled literary critics it would be quite easy to identify when established narrative materials is altered and when completely new narrative materials is added.

 

And once again it's not my definition, but rather one the that is commonly acecpt, If you wan to get techncial  this specific form of retcon is also called a Revision.

As someone who has studied literature, it's never easy to identify when "established narrative materials is [sic] altered" unless you have access to multiple revisions of the work in question, and even then it's never with certainty and it's never in a prejorative sense.  It's to track the development of a work.

 

Besides, to accept that TVTropes definition of revision as a retcon bascially means that any element in a story that is not explicitly foreshadowed is a retcon, which technically means that most plot developments are retcons.  For instance, it means that Soverign on Virmire is a retcon of Soverign on Eden Prime, since there's nothing in it's appearance on Eden Prime to suggest that it can think for itself, never mind talk or be behind the whole scheme. As andy69156915 says, a definition of "retcon" that's that broad is essentially meaningless.

 

On topic: I guess you'd have to be in N7 (or at least a similar kind of elite position) in order to get a senior job in Cerberus, and the senior jobs are the only ones worth having in Cerberus.

[Fixers0]

Besides, to accept that TVTropes definition of revision as a retcon bascially means that any element in a story that is not explicitly foreshadowed is a retcon, which technically means that most plot developments are retcons.  For instance, it means that Soverign on Virmire is a retcon of Soverign on Eden Prime, since there's nothing in it's appearance on Eden Prime to suggest that it can think for itself, never mind talk or be behind the whole scheme. As andy69156915 says, a definition of "retcon" that's that broad is essentially meaningless.

 

Not necessarily. A retcon doesn't have to carry a great deal of weight, as i've said, it's usally  up to invidual analysis whether the retcon is damaging or not. In your example I'd argue that no revision took place as no alternation of established continuity took place. Cerberus on the other hand, was subject to a revision, an example of this would be project teltin, and the existance of the Illusive man, An example of a plain rewrite is the origin of Cerberus, which change from being an Alliance Black'ops initiative to manifesto published by TIM after the first contact war.

[KaiserShep]

On topic: I guess you'd have to be in N7 (or at least a similar kind of elite position) in order to get a senior job in Cerberus, and the senior jobs are the only ones worth having in Cerberus.

 

Pretty much this. Unless your skill set makes you irreplaceable, you're likely going to turn into one of their test subjects. Heck, in the end, Cerberus was offing even their skilled scientists. There are points in the story where it strains believability that such an organization can successfully wrangle enough people to become as substantial as it is and survive for as long as it has. With such a narrow margin between its considerable risk and its meager reward, Cerberus would definitely collapse under its own madness.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Pretty much this. Unless your skill set makes you irreplaceable, you're likely going to turn into one of their test subjects. Heck, in the end, Cerberus was offing even their skilled scientists. There are points in the story where it strains believability that such an organization can successfully wrangle enough people to become as substantial as it is and survive for as long as it has. With such a narrow margin between its considerable risk and its meager reward, Cerberus would definitely collapse under its own madness.

 

One of the things I wondered is who would want to join such an organization. Do they have a very excellent life insurance policy for when the inevitable something breaks loose and begins killing everyone?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

One of the things I wondered is who would want to join such an organization. Do they have a very excellent life insurance policy for when the inevitable something breaks loose and begins killing everyone?

 

I would join. I'd be a bit more genre savvy, but I do not believe that it is inevitable that something will always go wrong. 

[DeinonSlayer]

I liked Dean's idea of Cerberus and the Alliance competing over which is the "true face" of humanity, each seeking the advantage (influenced by your actions), with a "landsmeet" towards the end where one or the other rises to the top.

Trying to remember how he put it. With Earth cut off, the Alliance has ships and raw materials, but has lost access to its consumer base; Cerberus has a large manufacturing base and a method to produce top-tier soldiers out of civilians but lacks ships and raw materials. The yin-yang is obvious, but which should be the leading partner?

[Xilizhra]

I liked Dean's idea of Cerberus and the Alliance competing over which is the "true face" of humanity, each seeking the advantage (influenced by your actions), with a "landsmeet" towards the end where one or the other rises to the top.

Trying to remember how he put it. With Earth cut off, the Alliance has ships and raw materials, but has lost access to its consumer base; Cerberus has a large manufacturing base and a method to produce top-tier soldiers out of civilians but lacks ships and raw materials. The yin-yang is obvious, but which should be the leading partner?

I'd really rather not. I'd prefer that the series' humanocentrism was dropped in ME3, and let the dichotomy be between the Council and Cerberus, not just the Alliance.

[KaiserShep]

But humanocentrism is great. So great, in fact, that it makes me want to shoot Joram Talid twice.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I'd really rather not. I'd prefer that the series' humanocentrism was dropped in ME3, and let the dichotomy be between the Council and Cerberus, not just the Alliance.

 

You know, I'd consider this a valid complaint if you yourself weren't Asari-centrist.

[KaiserShep]

I think there really should be a Volus and Vorcha councilor for ME4.

[Aimi]

Pretty much this. Unless your skill set makes you irreplaceable, you're likely going to turn into one of their test subjects. Heck, in the end, Cerberus was offing even their skilled scientists. There are points in the story where it strains believability that such an organization can successfully wrangle enough people to become as substantial as it is and survive for as long as it has. With such a narrow margin between its considerable risk and its meager reward, Cerberus would definitely collapse under its own madness.

It would strain believability for me, as well - if similarly crazy organizations hadn't already existed in the real world. Hell, in the 1930s, the CPSU might've even been worse.

[Xilizhra]

You know, I'd consider this a valid complaint if you yourself weren't Asari-centrist.

Well, never have I ever advocated for a Mass Effect game where asari were the only playable PC race, or where half-to-all of the game was taken up by working for an asari organization, so I daresay I'm less asaricentric than the ME series is humanocentric, by far.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Well, never have I ever advocated for a Mass Effect game where asari were the only playable PC race, or where half-to-all of the game was taken up by working for an asari organization, so I daresay I'm less asaricentric than the ME series is humanocentric, by far.

 

The human centricness of these games extents past those two narrow confines, so I don't see why Asari centrism should be treated the same.

[Xilizhra]

The human centricness of these games extents past those two narrow confines, so I don't see why Asari centrism should be treated the same.

'Twas just an example. I know there are other issues.

[meatisadelicacy]

My initial reaction is an emphatic "N7, of course!" But then I remember Miranda Lawson and she is enough to tempt me to the dark side. So I mean, maybe Cerberus. Maybe.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

My initial reaction is an emphatic "N7, of course!" But then I remember Miranda Lawson and she is enough to tempt me to the dark side. So I mean, maybe Cerberus. Maybe.

 

As an extreme Miranda supporter of the highest levels, I sincerely hope you aren't joining Cerberus for just her.