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N7 or Cerberus


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#376
MassivelyEffective0730

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I wholeheartedly agree with you on this one, grantedm there's always a limited to the extend the player can influence the narrative but up until Mass Effect  3 the series gave a  quite reasonable impression to the player that their input was relevant. 
 
Ironically enough, what Bioware did to Mass Effect 3 was exactly the oppostie of the desgin philosphy the use Mass Effect 1&2. The presentation here is part of series in which it is explained how bioware intended accomplish a cinematic narrative without often interupting player agency.

 

I hold no illusions that the player would ever be able to significantly affect the narrative. Key events still needed to happen, but how they happened (to an extent) and Shepard's reaction to it was something that needed to be in the players control. For example, I understand why I couldn't work with Cerberus in ME3, and why I had to work with the alliance. That said, the failing was that, especially compared to previous games, I had limited ablility to control how my Shepard felt about it, as well as a limited ability to define my Shepard and what he is about and how he's got a handle on things. And the game doesn't take a policy of neutrality (granted, it was never really like this, but it was more subtle about it in earlier games) with ideals either, which is another failing. The game lets you know what the writers (despite what interviews suggest) thought you should have done (which is why, more often than not, what you were 'supposed' to do was generally the blue upper-left dialogue option). The game wants you to think that you're standing as the pinnacle of moral righteousness serving in the alliance. I preferred it in ME1 and ME2 where there was a lot more complexity to all sides involved in the conflict of the story.

 

Player agency... arguably the worst casualty of ME3.


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#377
KaiserShep

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And later dialogue in the game proves this wrong, when TIM makes it quite clear that he wants Shepard on his side, even going as far as saying that he hasn't given up on Shepard yet.

 

That's one of the things I would change a bit about Cerberus. We'd definitely have a better employee service policy. Affable Evil on the level of Hank Scorpio.

 

Plus, Hank Scorpio just seems to love his job so much. It's rare to see that kind of passion and enthusiasm in one's work.

 

Simpsons-HankScorpioFlamethrower.gif


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#378
Sir DeLoria

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So Petrovsky is Ludendorff, Shepard is Göring, and Timmy is Hitler?Sounds like an operation that would be just as successful as the real one back in 1923.


Godwin's Law strikes again!

#379
Cheviot

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And later dialogue in the game proves this wrong, when TIM makes it quite clear that he wants Shepard on his side, even going as far as saying that he hasn't given up on Shepard yet.

 

That's one of the things I would change a bit about Cerberus. We'd definitely have a better employee service policy. Affable Evil on the level of Hank Scorpio.

Where does TIM say this?  I'm having trouble remembering this; the impression I got was that at best, TIM didn't want Shepard to be in his way. 

 

It's good to hear you've got changes in mind if you join, though; I would warn you that there's a chance what few admin staff there are will likely - based on the example of Brooks - have biotic or tech powers, so watch for that when you start restructuring.



#380
KaiserShep

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In one of the logs at Cronos, TIM tells Kai Leng that he's not willing to consider Shepard as a total loss, on Thessia does try to get him/her to see things his way, and he tells Shepard that he wants him/her to believe during the Citadel confrontation, but obviously none of that matters, because by the time he tries to get these points across, it's far too late and he's already flown off the deep end.



#381
MassivelyEffective0730

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Where does TIM say this?  I'm having trouble remembering this; the impression I got was that at best, TIM didn't want Shepard to be in his way. 

 

It's good to hear you've got changes in mind if you join, though; I would warn you that there's a chance what few admin staff there are will likely - based on the example of Brooks - have biotic or tech powers, so watch for that when you start restructuring.

 

Take a look at some of his later conversations, and then go to Cronos Station and look at the logs. He's clearly still invested in Shepard and legitimately wants him on his side. My Shepard would be in Cerberus if it wasn't for the reckless use of Reaper Tech that has gotten them indoctrinated. They weren't as careful with it as they could have been. Reaper tech is extraordinarily useful, but only if extraordinary measures take place to prevent the extraordinary risks inherent in working with it.

 

I don't have many changes in mind. All I'm saying is that I'd essentially be Hank Scorpio with employees. TIM already had that covered a bit. He payed very well, and according to crew on the Normandy in ME2, he was pretty good with making sure Cerberus took care of their employees, such as moving a crewman's family from a colony that was about to be targeted by the Collectors. Many places, including Overlord, gave the impression that it was a pretty decent employee environment.

 

I'm counting on that. I want them on my side. I want them working for me, and having loyalty to me.


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#382
jros83

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Give me a break. Everything Martin Sheen the Illusive Man did was for the sole and explicit purposes of furthering his own agendas for his own purposes. If it meant safeguarding a crewman's family to buy their loyalty then so be it.


It could just as easily meant liquidating them.



#383
jros83

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and by the way, anyone saying that ME2 gave an impression that Cerberus wasn't as xenophobic as "mainstream" organizations like the Alliance needs to realize that at a certain point story takes a back seat to real life practicalities. Bioware needs to severely tone down Ceberus' immoral side because fewer players would relate. It's about sales. That's all it's EVER about.



#384
DeinonSlayer

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Take a look at some of his later conversations, and then go to Cronos Station and look at the logs. He's clearly still invested in Shepard and legitimately wants him on his side. My Shepard would be in Cerberus if it wasn't for the reckless use of Reaper Tech that has gotten them indoctrinated. They weren't as careful with it as they could have been. Reaper tech is extraordinarily useful, but only if extraordinary measures take place to prevent the extraordinary risks inherent in working with it.
 
I don't have many changes in mind. All I'm saying is that I'd essentially be Hank Scorpio with employees. TIM already had that covered a bit. He payed very well, and according to crew on the Normandy in ME2, he was pretty good with making sure Cerberus took care of their employees, such as moving a crewman's family from a colony that was about to be targeted by the Collectors. Many places, including Overlord, gave the impression that it was a pretty decent employee environment.
 
I'm counting on that. I want them on my side. I want them working for me, and having loyalty to me.

I was looking for an animated gif with the flamethrower, but this was too good to pass up.

1348435093120610.jpg

EDIT: Looks like KaiserShep beat me to the GIF in question.
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#385
jros83

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I was looking for an animated gif with the flamethrower, but this was too good to pass up.

1348435093120610.jpg

That's what I love about old Simpsons. Some references went right by me when I first saw an episode as a child. Then years later, you come to find just how "WTF" those references were lol.


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#386
KaiserShep

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The future doesn't look bright for a lot of references though. To think that kids of the future won't know why the ironing is delicious.



#387
MassivelyEffective0730

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Give me a break. Everything Martin Sheen the Illusive Man did was for the sole and explicit purposes of furthering his own agendas for his own purposes. If it meant safeguarding a crewman's family to buy their loyalty then so be it.


It could just as easily meant liquidating them.

 

That's what a lot of people do. That's what most leaders due for loyalty. You don't want the person so much as you want the service they can provide. Are you criticizing that?

 

If it meant liquidizing (economically and literally), then yes, if the goal is served by doing so, then it's an acceptable trade-off.



#388
MassivelyEffective0730

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and by the way, anyone saying that ME2 gave an impression that Cerberus wasn't as xenophobic as "mainstream" organizations like the Alliance needs to realize that at a certain point story takes a back seat to real life practicalities. Bioware needs to severely tone down Ceberus' immoral side because fewer players would relate. It's about sales. That's all it's EVER about.

 

What the hell does this even mean? You talk about a narrative point and then switch out for an economic issue when it comes to buying a game, completely unrelated from the point you tried to start with.


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#389
jros83

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The future doesn't look bright for a lot of references though. To think that kids of the future won't know why the ironing is delicious.

quoted for truth



#390
jros83

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What the hell does this even mean? You talk about a narrative point and then switch out for an economic issue when it comes to buying a game, completely unrelated from the point you tried to start with.

Ok first, not unrelated at all. 

Second, calm down. Don't understand what the anger is about.

The point I was making is that quibbling over the morals of Cerberus in the game universe becomes a silly point when most everything is driven by how marketable can the franchise be. Cerberus was nominally "the good guy" in ME2 insofar as your motives aligned with theirs, albeit very tenuously, and they brought you back from death. Bioware gave it legitimacy by showing Cerberus conveniently had many faces, not all bad. Espcially with plot device characters who "are actually good inside, and Shepard made them see the light." Conveniently. If they didn't write the story for Cerberus to be your temporary benefactor, they'd have no reason to inject anything redeeming about the organization or the people into the story at all.

By the way, I have very, VERY little patience for people who take benign discussions over games and turn them into cursing and aggression matches. Do it again and I just won't respond, it'll be best for both of us believe me. Perhaps 9,000 posts means you think you can be derisive and aggressive towards the new guy, and maybe that's normal for these forums, but it doesn't engender in me much want to respond to it.



#391
MassivelyEffective0730

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Pffft Anger? Seriously? I say one slightly emphatic question (with one word that's usage as a curse is arguable at best) and then you go off on me for anger? Oh, what has the internet come to? 

 

Calling this post here of yours an overreaction would be an understatement. You got sensitive feel glands the size of Texas, and the challenging demeanor to boot.

 

Then again, yeah, your reaction is pretty green. You're like the guy from Family Guy that want's to fight everyone over something. Word of advice, rookie, you've already started off as way confrontational already. If this is how you react to a brisk comment (and completely overstate the context, not to mention the content), then yeah, you're going to have a brilliant time here making friends with everyone.

 

PC la-la land is so cheet these days... seriously, I say one word, 'hell', and I get that response. 


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#392
jros83

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Pffft Anger? Seriously? I say one slightly emphatic question (with one word that's usage as a curse is arguable at best) and then you go off on me for anger? Oh, what has the internet come to? 

 

Calling this post here of yours an overreaction would be an understatement. You got sensitive feel glands the size of Texas, and the challenging demeanor to boot.

 

Then again, yeah, your reaction is pretty green. You're like the guy from Family Guy that want's to fight everyone over something. Word of advice, rookie, you've already started off as way confrontational already. If this is how you react to a brisk comment (and completely overstate the context, not to mention the content), then yeah, you're going to have a brilliant time here making friends with everyone.

 

PC la-la land is so cheet these days... seriously, I say one word, 'hell', and I get that response. 

That's cute. I used to act that way too when I was under 25. Internet is fun isn't it.

Good day.



#393
MassivelyEffective0730

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Are you some formerly banned user I pissed off on a previous account?

 

Or do you just like going around acting like a big man whose too cool for school Mister 'You're dumb and mean for saying one swear word at me!'?



#394
jros83

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That's a riot considering the way I respond to you is solely driven by how you came on to me. But for the record, no, I am not a banned user. However, thank you for the insight into your psyche where post count determines your perceptions of people. Again, I'm not surprised by that in the least since I have been dealing with social forums since 1998.

I can either feed your obsessive need for drama/someone to project on to show off for others, or I can make this the last response to you.

I choose the later. But I understand the need for drama is great and I would hate for you to be bored so I strongly encourage you not to give up and find a new mark. I know how important it can be to keep yourself entertained.



#395
MassivelyEffective0730

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I can either feed your obsessive need for drama/someone to project on to show off for others, or I can make this the last response to you.

I choose the later.

 

Obsessive need for drama? Not this late at night. This is the first time in a long-time I've been accused of being dramatic without actually being dramatic about it.

 

And your first reaction wasn't that already? You literally just started going off on a long diatribe about how immature and childish I am and how great and old you are because you're over 25 (did you really pull the age card?) all because you took a comment I said the wrong way. If that's how you feel, maybe I should have some fun with the cherry.



#396
themikefest

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Where does TIM say this?  I'm having trouble remembering this; the impression I got was that at best, TIM didn't want Shepard to be in his way. 

 

It's good to hear you've got changes in mind if you join, though; I would warn you that there's a chance what few admin staff there are will likely - based on the example of Brooks - have biotic or tech powers, so watch for that when you start restructuring.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=1R7_VLtJfGs 6:40



#397
Remix-General Aetius

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Jros83 is Miranda, MassivelyEffective is Jack............Citadel DLC interaction................Kasumi just confirmed there IS a market for this type of thing........how am I doing?



#398
jros83

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Jros83 is Miranda, MassivelyEffective is Jack............Citadel DLC interaction................Kasumi just confirmed there IS a market for this type of thing........how am I doing?

Pretty well I'd say! Were I Miranda I don't think I'd ever leave my bedroom...

 

Sorry, I'm getting a little blue for a game forum lol.



#399
Remix-General Aetius

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Were I Miranda I don't think I'd ever leave my bedroom...

 

Were you Miranda, you'd never finish getting dressed...


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#400
jros83

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Were you Miranda, you'd never finish getting dressed...

this is true