402 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

In a reaper-less universe, I can see something like Cerberus working out a lot better. At least there wouldn't be any reaper tech to augment the personnel with. As for racism, I never really got that impression. It's not like you have humans working for STG or whatever equivalent the asari and turians have.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

that is why i have issues with some turians.

 

Yeah, suffice to say, I'm disgusted with the alliance, and supremely irritated at the whitewashing they got in ME3. 

[Kaicel]

Being with Cerberus gets you custom leather seats, right?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

In a reaper-less universe, I can see something like Cerberus working out a lot better. At least there wouldn't be any reaper tech to augment the personnel with. As for racism, I never really got that impression. It's not like you have humans working for STG or whatever equivalent the asari and turians have.

 

I have no problem with using Reaper tech as long as it's responsibly used and gets results.

 

By 'responsibly used', I mean as long as the people testing it are free from its influence. By all means, test it on civilians, soldiers, aliens, whoever. As long as you get results, I'm cool with it.

 

For Science! is underrated. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Hell, one of the Illusive Man's sexual liaisons was an Asari Matriarch.

 

TIM actively encourage Saren to form his own group for the Turians. He's a survivalist looking out for humanity, not a racist.

 

Hell, I trust TIM far more than I'd ever trust any moron in the alliance or the Council. I still don't trust him, but I do believe he's a lot better than any of the alternatives.

 

I know what to expect from him, and I know I could probably come to an understanding that benefits both of us.

[DeathScepter]

Yeah, suffice to say, I'm disgusted with the alliance, and supremely irritated at the whitewashing they got in ME3. 

 

well I don't know if you were here before ME3 and during ME2 bioware era. There were many extreme Anti Cerberus members here. For Right now, it has calm down greatly as I recall.

 

So much of the whitewashing of Alliance and demonizing of Cerberus stems with that. Cerberus has a lot of history to demonize without going Full tilt with the Second coming Sith Empire and lol stupid.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

I saw far more racism and blatant ignorance within the ranks of the alliance than I ever did among Cerberus.

 

Allow me to remind you that what you saw while working with Cerberus was only what TIM wanted you to see and nothing more. Sure your crew from ME2 may not have been the same racist folks that Cerberus is said to be comprised of, but its not exactly a fair assessment to say that Cerberus doesnt deserve at least some of the hate they get.

[KaiserShep]

I have no problem with using Reaper tech as long as it's responsibly used and gets results.

 

By 'responsibly used', I mean as long as the people testing it are free from its influence. By all means, test it on civilians, soldiers, aliens, whoever. As long as you get results, I'm cool with it.

 

For Science! is underrated. 

 

I will admit, despite my utter distaste for acts such as Sanctuary, some of this stems from the Crucible's existence making these acts seem less necessary, on top of Cerberus' wholly irresponsible willy-nilly use of reaper augmentation. If the Crucible simply did not exist and there was no big superweapon that apparently promises to stop them, no one else would really have a plan beyond finding a remote planet to set up a facility with cryogenic pods to fall asleep in until the reaper extinction event blows over.

[Applepie_Svk]

Funny thing about whole Cerberus, was that little terrorist splinter group has changed in 3 years to one of the most powerful force in galaxy, with best spies, with better sources then SPECTERs or Salarian STG or Shadowbroker. 

 

After ME1, you literally costs Illusive man fortune, not just because you were ressurected from death but you also managed to screw lot of their operations which gave him informations, than if you pick to be a paragon in ME2 you  did again screw them and cost them even more than before, but yeah whatever - they did not managed just to return, but they did it with big guns.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Allow me to remind you that what you saw while working with Cerberus was only what TIM wanted you to see and nothing more. Sure your crew from ME2 may not have been the same racist folks that Cerberus is said to be comprised of, but its not exactly a fair assessment to say that Cerberus doesnt deserve at least some of the hate they get.

 

I don't believe they deserve any of the hate they get beyond criticism for the practicality of some of their actions and the economics of them. There's nothing to see in Cerberus that I would personally find repulsive. TIM didn't need to hide anything from me. I agree fully with not only their goals, but with their methods, when viable. You're not telling me anything of value. Seeing what Cerberus was made of from other cells and the man himself, I believe Cerberus wasn't comprised of anti-alien idiots anywhere on a macro-scale. I got enough of that crap from the alliance door guards in ME3.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

well I don't know if you were here before ME3 and during ME2 bioware era. There were many extreme Anti Cerberus members here. For Right now, it has calm down greatly as I recall.

 

So much of the whitewashing of Alliance and demonizing of Cerberus stems with that. Cerberus has a lot of history to demonize without going Full tilt with the Second coming Sith Empire and lol stupid.

 

I was here on another profile, though I wasn't active. I've pretty much always been a Cerberus supporter. Personally, I view most of the views of others as pathetic emotional appeals and irrational anger stemming from compassion and empathy.

[DeathScepter]

I was here on another profile, though I wasn't active. I've pretty much always been a Cerberus supporter. Personally, I view most of the views of others as pathetic emotional appeals and irrational anger stemming from compassion and empathy.

 

well compassion and empathy are good things but being a bleeding heart and letting your emotions overriding your logic is a bad thing.  One of the reasons I became a Cerberus Supporter is due to the Reaper threat and keep an eye on the aliens allies. To me, Humanity needs to be strong regardless if they are still allies with the Council or other alien races. Not all turians are douchbags but some of them are.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

I don't believe they deserve any of the hate they get beyond criticism for the practicality of some of their actions and the economics of them. There's nothing to see in Cerberus that I would personally find repulsive. TIM didn't need to hide anything from me. I agree fully with not only their goals, but with their methods, when viable. You're not telling me anything of value. Seeing what Cerberus was made of from other cells and the man himself, I believe Cerberus wasn't comprised of anti-alien idiots anywhere on a macro-scale. I got enough of that crap from the alliance door guards in ME3.

 

I'd argue that you were one of the least well adjusted people in this discussion with your lack of concern for the highly unethical experiments going on among the other cells and agreeing with the means TIM used for reaching his goals.

 

I'll just settle for disagreeing with you though since a personal argument will turn ugly.

[Fixers0]

Neither. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I'd argue that you were one of the least well adjusted people in this discussion with your lack of concern for the highly unethical experiments going on among the other cells and agreeing with the means TIM used for reaching his goals.

 

I'll just settle for disagreeing with you though since a personal argument will turn ugly.

 

I'll ask why the mean matters once you've reached the end? Why does doing it 'unethically' do less to the end than taking years and years to do it 'ethically'? I'd argue that anyone who placed value in ethics over results is a person who doesn't have what it takes to win or survive.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

I'll ask why the mean matters once you've reached the end? Why does doing it 'unethically' do less to the end than taking years and years to do it 'ethically'? I'd argue that anyone who placed value in ethics over results is a person who doesn't have what it takes to win or survive.

 

Not gonna bite. You want a personal argument and I aint getting into that ugly affair.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Not gonna bite. You want a personal argument and I aint getting into that ugly affair.

 

This isn't a personal argument unless you make it one. I'm not attacking you (and I'll let slide attacks against me). I think you need to look up on defining an argument. Am I making you uncomfortable?

[DeinonSlayer]

popcorn.gif

[Steelcan]

take a guess

[Mrs_Stick]

I laugh at you heartily. Can you make an argument supporting the moral imperative that stands up to practical considerations?

I do not need to argue a moral belief. It is mine and I do not have to justify it to anyone.

[Mordokai]

popcorn.gif

 

Get it right next time!

 

 

[I Tsunayoshi I]

This isn't a personal argument unless you make it one. I'm not attacking you (and I'll let slide attacks against me). I think you need to look up on defining an argument. Am I making you uncomfortable?

 

The argument you are trying to get started here are based on personal views. That makes the argument personal and both of us have no reason to change our views. No reason wasting the breath or effort to change the mind of someone who is more set than the cement Jimmy Hoffa was buried in.

[Kabooooom]

Funny thing about whole Cerberus, was that little terrorist splinter group has changed in 3 years to one of the most powerful force in galaxy, with best spies, with better sources then SPECTERs or Salarian STG or Shadowbroker.

After ME1, you literally costs Illusive man fortune, not just because you were ressurected from death but you also managed to screw lot of their operations which gave him informations, than if you pick to be a paragon in ME2 you did again screw them and cost them even more than before, but yeah whatever - they did not managed just to return, but they did it with big guns.

I may have been one of the few people who never had a problem with Cerberus' presentation in ME3, probably because I paid attention to the novels, comics, and such.

In ME1 they are presented as being a splinter group, but in reality TIM had been building the organization for 30 years. They already had massive funding from the private sector from the Cord-Hislop corporation, as well as other unnamed shell or front corporations that were "highly influential in colonial affairs". Personally, subtle hints made me always suspect that Exo-geni was one of them, but that's neither here nor there. Point is - they were crazy well funded and in control of massive infrastructure, including shipyards. They had military and research divisions, and a political divisions with spies in the highest reaches of Alliance government.

But you only see a small portion of Cerberus in ME1 - some secret bases, experiments gone awry, occasional agents, etc.

Again, in ME2 you only see an extremely small part of Cerberus - pretty much exactly what TIM wants you to see. But the degree of their power and funding is still obvious. He makes you think the Lazarus Project and the SR-2 construction set him back substantially. Not so. It was expensive, yeah, but the dude is one of the most wealthy individuals in the galaxy.

In preparation for the Reaper invasion, Cerberus had (a) Reaper tech, and were full-speed ahead with their research efforts and implanting them in their troops; and (b ) *most importantly* starship manufacturing facilities since their primary front company is not only a starship manufacturer, but THE leading starship manufacturer in Alliance space. They are like the 22nd century equivalent of Boeing. The government even trusted them enough to contract them to build the Normandy SR-1 for Christsakes. How about them apples. Bet the alliance brass felt pretty stupid when they found that one out. So it is not hard at all to see how Cerberus could have built up their fleet rapidly or in secret over many years.

But if all you consider is what is shown of Cerberus in the games, then yeah it makes little sense at all.

[TheTurtle]

I would go with N7 because I like the logo better and I strongly dislike Cerberus.