402 réponses à ce sujet

[Excella Gionne]

N6, maybe?

[DeathScepter]

Shepard is the Hero of the Story, of course he will be a badass regardless of Military training. having him as a standard of N7 training is a bad idea. 

[Kurt M.]

As a guy who's had both, I'll say the elite and fancy equipment trumps hard work and training every day of the week. 

 

One 2nd Lieutenant, an F-22 Driver who was 3 months out of Flight School, roflstomped a flight of 4 F-16's in a Force-on-force exercise. All were piloted by veteran instructors.

 

And I can tell you stories of battles won with bayonets and guts. And?

 

Anyway, I'm not saying to face Cerberus and their fancy equipment with N7 training plus stones and sticks. There should be kind off an equilibrium there. IMO, N7 has the training (I doubt Cerberus' is better...if it even has any), and decent equipment. Cerberus has the fancy equipment but not the training. I think their odds are even.

 

I was stating more my personal preference rather than the odds

[MassivelyEffective0730]

And I can tell you stories of battles won with bayonets and guts. And?

 

Anyway, I'm not saying to face Cerberus and their fancy equipment with N7 training plus stones and sticks. There should be kind off an equilibrium there. IMO, N7 has the training (I doubt Cerberus' is better...if it even has any), and decent equipment. Cerberus has the fancy equipment but not the training. I think their odds are even.

 

I was stating more my personal preference rather than the odds

 

And I'm going to call you out on what evidence you have supporting your statements as well.

 

Said stories were also usually better equipped with better guns or some kind of technological advantage overlooked by the opposing force.

[zestalyn]

My Shepard came alive under Cerberus. He considers what he got from them more valuable than anything he got from the alliance or the Spectre's. Plus, he's got the mentality that suits Cerberus well. You can't teach the kind of mentality he has. That's something you're inborn with.

ok now your'e talking about the mentality of your own personal Shepard...thats fine, but if that was 100% the case in canon why didn't Shepard just stick with Cerberus beyond taking advantage of their resources for dealing with the colonies? In Cerberus the ends justify the means so to hell with everything, power and reaper tech for humanity at the cost of anything. In my opinion the things Shepard truly seeks to protect are more in align with the interests of the alliance, therefore he/she offers him/herself to them at the end of the day. That's why Shep joined N7 in the first place and the rest is history. then again im probably just talking about the mentality of my personal Shepard. each to their own. 

[Kurt M.]

And I'm going to call you out on what evidence you have supporting your statements as well.

 

Said stories were also usually better equipped with better guns or some kind of technological advantage overlooked by the opposing force.

 

Sincerely, I read about them on Cracked.com. Can't remember which article was. Or can't put the hands on the fire for it's truthfulness

 

Well, maybe fancy equipment wins. But I wonder how much fancy equipment will take on the future to make military uniforms laughable instead of honorable*. Time will tell, I guess.

 

 

*Not that they're much honorable right now, but that's another issue.

[DeinonSlayer]

Leonidas may have been a kick-ass mother****er in his day, but pit him against a raw amateur with an M4 and he'd go down fast.

I can certainly see how tech can trump skill.

[Kurt M.]

Leonidas may have been a kick-ass mother****er in his day, but pit him against a raw amateur with an M4 and he'd go down fast.

I can certainly see how tech can trump skill.

 

And if proportionality wasn't a factor to count in life, rhinoceros beetles would be the strongest living beings on Earth. You'd have to be able to lift several TONS of weight to match them.

[zestalyn]

Sincerely, I read about them on Cracked.com. Can't remember which article was. Or can't put the hands on the fire for it's truthfulness

 

Well, maybe fancy equipment wins. But I wonder how much fancy equipment will take on the future to make military uniforms laughable instead of honorable*. Time will tell, I guess.

 

 

*Not that they're much honorable right now, but that's another issue.

yea maybe fancy equipment wins. maybe without rare individuals like Shep, the Alliance fails cause they dont have fancy Reaper tech. but it's alright! ppl who choose N7 despite whatever inefficiencies it has probably choose it for philosophical reasons in additional to the practical. maybe its just the romantic idealist in me that'd say this about N7/Alliance, but id prefer to fight a losing battle if it means fighting for an organization that protects intergalactic peace and the integrity of all its life forms. its all good to me! 

[Kurt M.]

yea maybe fancy equipment wins. maybe without rare individuals like Shep, the Alliance fails cause they dont have fancy Reaper tech. but it's alright! ppl who choose N7 despite whatever inefficiencies it has probably choose it for philosophical reasons in additional to the practical. maybe its just the romantic idealist in me that'd say this about N7/Alliance, but id prefer to fight a losing battle if it means fighting for an organization that protects intergalactic peace and the integrity of all its life forms. its all good to me! 

 

As I said not long ago, karma is something not to be reckoned with. Learned that the hard way.

 

Besides, I can imagine a shore leave party and having fun with my fellow Alliance soldiers after kicking some Reaper ass. But can anyone imagine a Cerberus party without either falling on a parody or a chronic depression?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

yea maybe fancy equipment wins. maybe without rare individuals like Shep, the Alliance fails cause they dont have fancy Reaper tech. but it's alright! ppl who choose N7 despite whatever inefficiencies it has probably choose it for philosophical reasons in additional to the practical. maybe its just the romantic idealist in me that'd say this about N7/Alliance, but id prefer to fight a losing battle if it means fighting for an organization that protects intergalactic peace and the integrity of all its life forms. its all good to me! 

 

It's why I laugh when romantic idealism gets stomped in the face. It's not practical. I don't hold any respect for anybody who fights for their honor or principle. If they really believed in what they were fighting for, they'd be willing to fight dirty or hard or scary for it. 

 

Very few have the motivation to fight for what they believe in. Even fewer have the motivation to win.

[Fixers0]

For all their advaced technolgy, Cerberus wasn't even able to inflict a single casulty on the  Alliance fifth fleet when Cronos station was attacked. 

[Kurt M.]

It's why I laugh when romantic idealism gets stomped in the face.

 

It's why I laugh when desertions and suicides begin to arise.

 

It's what happens when you don't pay attention to morale.

 

Besides, all of that discussion doesn't even matter. N7's still has the natural advantage on all of this. In order to get fancy equipment all you need is money. A just cause and morale is a WAY harder thing to get.

 

I'll say it again: don't mess with karma. It ALWAYS get it's revenge. Even if it has to wait 500 years.

[zestalyn]

It's why I laugh when romantic idealism gets stomped in the face.

lol ok dude whatever floats your.. comedy boat. 

[DeinonSlayer]

Eh, I still say just taking them completely out is the better option. Any resources they have is a resource we don't have, whether we gave it to them or not. And how many times do you think targeting the Processor ships and troop carriers will work? I say it might work for, at most, 2 to 3 planets before the Reapers get smart and leave them better defended.

Pretty big handwave, there.

That's why I brought up diminishing returns. Just because they have resources doesn't mean we can make use of them, so what good does it do us to go out of our way to confiscate them? Gotta play the hand we're dealt: civilians in general would prioritize their own survival in this kind of situation above anything else. If the military itself becomes a detriment to that end in their eyes, they'll withdraw support and start sabotaging the war effort - never mind the effect on military morale. Categorical extermination of our own noncombatants simply creates more problems than it solves. Sabotages post-war rebuilding efforts, speeds the Reaper invasion timetable, burns through political capital - bottom line, it threatens the survival of the species more than it aids it. It seems highly unrealistic to me to believe doing so would get us closer to a 100% efficient war economy (perhaps on paper, but a smaller and less adaptable economy at that). Withdrawing support for the truly useless achieves the same ends without the baggage. The grasshoppers had better become ants or they'll starve.

As for troop transports, even that two or three times would buy more time to build the Crucible than would be earned by watching the Reapers bypass two or three planets we already scoured. If the Reapers change their tactics at all, that's one planet it failed to work on - figure out a new strategy for the next one. They have an utterly overwhelming force, with or without augmenting their ranks via harvesting. The best we can do is slow them down.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

It's why I laugh when desertions and suicides begin to arise.

 

It's what happens when you don't pay attention to morale.

 

Besides, all of that discussion doesn't even matter. N7's still has the natural advantage on all of this. In order to get fancy equipment all you need is money. A just cause and morale is a WAY harder thing to get.

 

I'll say it again: don't mess with karma. It ALWAYS get it's revenge. Even if it has to wait 500 years.

 

I'd argue where that'd come into play.

 

It's why I support what Cerberus is doing to their troops and civilians. Make them 100% obedient and capable of listening.

 

I'd debate what a 'just cause' is, and whether or not morale is necessary when you have a 100% obedient fighting force. You're not stating how the N7's are superior in this aspect.

 

I'll say it: Karma isn't real. It's a non-existent ideal that seems to balance some arbitrarily defined concept of good and bad and how it somehow follows a yin-yang pseudo-spiritual precedent to bring about justice and balance in the universe. I'll say that the universe is inherently amoral. There is no good or bad. It just is. 

[Kurt M.]

I'd argue where that'd come into play.

 

It's why I support what Cerberus is doing to their troops and civilians. Make them 100% obedient and capable of listening.

 

I'd debate what a 'just cause' is, and whether or not morale is necessary when you have a 100% obedient fighting force. You're not stating how the N7's are superior in this aspect.

 

I'll say it: Karma isn't real. It's a non-existent ideal that seems to balance some arbitrarily defined concept of good and bad and how it somehow follows a yin-yang pseudo-spiritual precedent to bring about justice and balance in the universe. I'll say that the universe is inherently amoral. There is no good or bad. It just is. 

 

You can make your enlisted troops 100% obedient and capable of listening, because that's what they signed up for. I've absolutely nothing against military discipline, and I fact, I totally approve of it, even on violence on boot camps. Heck, if my country itself wasn't a mess full of idiots and corrupt politicians, I'd be a soldier, too. But you simply CANNOT force it to someone who DOESN'T want it to, no matter how dire the situation is. You can CONVINCE. You can MOTIVATE, you can SUGGEST something, but NEVER force it.

 

You know? Napoleon also had good intentions and ideas politically speaking. You know what happened when he tried to force them into Spain? He and his marvelous and advanced army got it's ass kicked out of our country by CIVILIANS. And then a pathetic Spanish king rose to the throne and pushed back technology and civilian freedoms 300 years or so. That's what I meant to say.

 

Besides, I wouldn't talk about how marvelous Cerberus is in that matter when they have so many rogue agents and even entire cells that it's almost comical.

[CrutchCricket]

I'd argue where that'd come into play.

 

It's why I support what Cerberus is doing to their troops and civilians. Make them 100% obedient and capable of listening.

 

I'd debate what a 'just cause' is, and whether or not morale is necessary when you have a 100% obedient fighting force. You're not stating how the N7's are superior in this aspect.

 

I have no idea or interest in whatever moral discussion been unfolding here but I have to say I'll have a hearty chuckle when someone Sanctuary's your ass and takes your "100% obedient" troops right from you. I'll likely even snort when an N7-grade operative then assasinates you in your sleep.

 

I'm no master strategist but give me creative and cunning warriors with loyalty freely given over cookie-cutter machines any day.

 

Though I suppose it's also how you use them. If you need disposable shock troops temporarily I guess you could do worse than Cerberus mooks.

[DeinonSlayer]

Just to throw this out there, Massively, I don't prioritize civilians over military - in the film Cloverfield, for example, I thought it beyond stupid that the military was depicted flying in trained soldiers for no purpose and then abandoning them in the city they were about to start carpet-bombing in favor of flying out a gaggle of ditzy twenty-somethings instead. The military's job in the Reaper war is to defeat the Reapers. The civilians' job is to support them to that end by any means they can, or, failing that, stay the hell out of their way - live or die. The civvies in the docks are sitting around expecting food to be shovelled at them for no benefit, without offering any assistance in return. They're grasshoppers. They'd best get off their asses and find a way to help.

[Kurt M.]

Just to throw this out there, Massively, I don't prioritize civilians over military - in the film Cloverfield, for example, I thought it beyond stupid that the military was depicted flying in trained soldiers for no purpose and then abandoning them in the city they were about to start carpet-bombing in favor of flying out a gaggle of ditzy twenty-somethings instead. The military's job in the Reaper war is to defeat the Reapers. The civilians' job is to support them to that end by any means they can, or, failing that, stay the hell out of their way - live or die. The civvies in the docks are sitting around expecting food to be shovelled at them for no benefit, without offering any assistance in return. They'd best get off their asses and find a way to help.

 

Kinda agree it'd be the utopic way. I'd dislike fighting for people who later doesn't give a **** about others, or are only concerned about their "tribe" (family, kids, etc). But at least in that part of the ME universe, there are people who are visibly doing their part.

[DeinonSlayer]

I have no idea or interest in whatever moral discussion been unfolding here but I have to say I'll have a hearty chuckle when someone Sanctuary's your ass and takes your "100% obedient" troops right from you. I'll likely even snort when an N7-grade operative then assasinates you in your sleep.

I'm no master strategist but give me creative and cunning warriors with loyalty freely given over cookie-cutter machines any day.

Though I suppose it's also how you use them. If you need disposable shock troops temporarily I guess you could do worse than Cerberus mooks.

Not sure if I should 'like' or report this... agree with the second and third paragraphs.

[Kurt M.]

x

 

Not comparable to the amount of the stupidity of you being here, reading and posting.

 

You're either bored, or trying to fill your pre-teen insecurity. Either way, if you think this game is stupid, you don't belong here.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I have no idea or interest in whatever moral discussion been unfolding here but I have to say I'll have a hearty chuckle when someone Sanctuary's your ass and takes your "100% obedient" troops right from you. I'll likely even snort when an N7-grade operative then assasinates you in your sleep.

 

I'm no master strategist but give me creative and cunning warriors with loyalty freely given over cookie-cutter machines any day.

 

Though I suppose it's also how you use them. If you need disposable shock troops temporarily I guess you could do worse than Cerberus mooks.

 

It won't happen, so you don't have to worry about it. Any N7 operative will have to contend with me. And it's me. Anything not a Reaper is going to get hilariously roflstomped.

 

I want machines that can kill. I don't care how it's done. I want them to follow my orders to the letter with no question behind them beyond terms of execution. I'll take creative and cunning warriors who are cookie cutter machines. There is no mutual exclusivity to it. Look at the Clones from Star Wars. I want hyper-lethal killing machines to do what I tell them when I tell them.

[DeathScepter]

Not comparable to the amount of the stupidity of you being here, reading and posting.

 

You're either bored, or trying to fill your pre-teen insecurity. Either way, if you think this game is stupid, you don't belong here.

 

 

Well compared to ME1 or ME2, ME3 falls short. Also Comparing ME3 to other bioware works, it always comes up short. So In short, I do think it is very stupid due to the lack of overall quality writing that Bioware had.

 

If you think i have pre teen insecurities, well look in the mirror sweetheart.

[DeinonSlayer]

Kinda agree it'd be the utopic way. I'd dislike fighting for people who later doesn't give a **** about others, or are only concerned about their "tribe" (family, kids, etc). But at least in that part of the ME universe, there are people who are visibly doing their part.

I think de Tocqueville termed it "random voluntary social alliances." You've got people who would band together to see to their own needs and assist both the war effort and reconstruction, and you've got people who think that beyond their little fence it's the King's duty to fix major problems.

I've read that in the wake of major disasters, disaster recovery teams keep (low-skill) slots open because there's always people who simply cannot sit still, who have to help out, and it's better to have a job to give them than have them getting in the way. Those people are usually the first to leave refugee housing. At the other end of the totem pole, there are people who are content to sit on their butts in refugee housing and have food shoveled at them until they are forceably removed, lomg after the disaster has passed.