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[thats1evildude]

Rather see Princess Bethany/Prince Sebastian.

[Knight of Dane]

Of course but not everyone is hypocrite about as he is... (cleary guy is pretending to be nice guy)  well for example varric when he was telling him to forgive his brother.

Hm, I don't really think he's a hypocrite at all. He's genuinely nice towards people (that are non-maleficar at least) and reacts violently when a mage bombs the chantry.

 

He's wrong about murdering the lot of them, but it's not really outside his beleif system to view the mages as wicked.

[Knight of Dane]

You've never met any of those holier-than-thou religious people who do good things just so they can feel superior?

I have, they are called PC-gamers.

[Nefla]

Yes, it's a part of his chararacter arc. Seeking revenge, contemplating what good it did and then plummet back into it because of a horrific event.

 

I personally feel it's a very compelling theme, everyone has wanted revenge or justice served on their behalf at some point, and for some people it blinds them towards the consequences.

Indeed! Even though I know forgiveness is the best path, it frees both the forgiven person and you, if someone had just murdered my mother and most of my friends along with a ton of random innocents, I would be insane with grief and rage and say who knows what but later on I wouldn't actually do those horrible things. I think that scenario would have been improved if you spare Anders and Sebastian attacks you and Anders, forcing you to kill him. You lose one or the other anyway and it's more believable than him leaving Anders alone for the moment.

 

Personally, I've never even seen that scene in-game (I youtubed it though) because I kill Anders every time.

[MisterJB]

You've never met any of those holier-than-thou religious people who do good things just so they can feel superior?

Epicurus claimed that every action is ultimately selfish, even acts of altruism, because you do it to increase the worth of your own self. Basically, if you feel good about helping others; if you gain joy from it; then you are selfish because you did it to gain something rather than simply to help the other.

If we acept this, then Sebastian is, by no means, different from everyone else.

 

If we do not accept this phylosophy, however, then you must prove that the intentions behind Sebastian's actions is so he can feel superior.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Hm, I don't really think he's a hypocrite at all. He's genuinely nice towards people (that are non-maleficar at least) and reacts violently when a mage bombs the chantry.

 

He's wrong about murdering the lot of them, but it's not really outside his beleif system to view the mages as wicked.

He is hypocrite as i said he was preaching about forgiveness when he was pursuing own revenge in the end he even wanted kill whole city for revenge on 1 person fits here .

[Knight of Dane]

He is hypocrite as i said he was preaching about forgiveness when he was pursuing own revenge in the end he even wanted kill whole city for revenge on 1 person fits here .

Heh, the way you talk about Sebastian just reminded me of a great banter from Origins myself:

 

• Zevran: So are you a very religious man, Alistair? I am curious. I believe I heard you say you were raised in an abbey?
• Alistair: I was raised in a castle. I was schooled in the abbey. As far as being religious... I don't know. Not especially. What about you? Not in your line of work, I expect.
• Zevran: Why do you say that? I happen to be quite devoted, in my way, as most Antivans are.
• Alistair: Truly? But you kill people. For money.
• Zevran: And I ask forgiveness for my sins from the Maker every chance I get. What manner of monster do you think I am?
• Alistair: But... you ask forgiveness and then you go right on with your sinning!
• Zevran: The Maker has never objected. Why should you?
• Alistair: I... have no idea.
• Zevran: Well there you go. Perhaps you ought to think about asking for a little forgiveness yourself, hm?

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

Heh, the way you talk about Sebastian just reminded me of a great banter from Origins myself:

 

chop

And what that proves zevran was joked sebastian didn't as i said he is outright hypocrite for condemning others for things he was doing himself and even spread his revenge on peoples that didn't had anything common whit peoples who "wronged" him.

[Knight of Dane]

I still don't really label him as a hypocrite. In large part his character is about religious contemplation, most of all for himself.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I still don't really label him as a hypocrite. In large part his character is about religious contamplation, most of all for himself.

he is one whether you like it or not... i pretty much proved that not that rly needed prove.

[Knight of Dane]

he is one whether you like it or not... i pretty much proved that not that rly needed prove.

I don't really think so. Sebastian preaches forgivness, yes, but always only in the face of regret and guilt.

 

Anders doesn't exactly regret what he did.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I don't really think so. Sebastian preaches forgivness, yes, but always only in the face of regret and guilt.

 

Anders doesn't exactly regret what he did.

LoL that is fanboyism he was preaching to other companions like varric that they need forgive when as i said himself didn't.

 

Anders said that he regrets that and that isn't even point not mention that he wanted burn kirkwall for something that anders did pretty much hypocrite. 

[Knight of Dane]

Can't something simply be a discussion of interests? Why try to make argument worthless by claiming the fan-highground?

 

I don't think Sebastian is a hypocrite, if it applies as you describe him he wouldn't engage in combat at all.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Can't something simply be a discussion of interests? Why try to make argument worthless by claiming the fan-highground?

 

I don't think Sebastian is a hypocrite, if it applies as you describe him he wouldn't engage in combat at all.

Simple because you are doing that. Guy cleary is hypocrite

 

Here we have definition

"It is the practice of engaging in the same behavior or activity for which one criticizes another"

Did sebastian did that yep many times so he is hypocrite like it or not.

 

And what combat what you are talking about?

[Shark17676]

Yes my straight male Hawke will most definitely be princess of Starkhaven    

 

Hah hah, I'll admit it broke my brain a little bit at first, too, since I never played a female Hawke.     

[Knight of Dane]

Simple because you are doing that. Guy cleary is hypocrite

 

Here we have definition

"It is the practice of engaging in the same behavior or activity for which one criticizes another"

Did sebastian did that yep many times so he is hypocrite like it or not.

 

And what combat what you are talking about?

Any. If "He preaches forgiveness" was as simple as he could be labeled wouldn't he lay down the bow and plead the mooks to reconsider their violent lifestyle?

 

No, it's clear his religious ideals are in context, which religion often is. Simplifying his character and calling him a hypocrite is too easy.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Any. If "He preaches forgiveness" was as simple as he could be labeled wouldn't he lay down the bow and plead the mooks to reconsider their violent lifestyle?

 

No, it's clear his religious ideals are in context, which religion often is. Simplifying his character and calling him a hypocrite is too easy.

Well you pointed here something that could be hypocrisy but it isn't as hawke didn't killed for revenge neither sebastian (well mostly).As i said he condemned others for revenge despite doing that himself it is hypocrisy.

 

And that you try put that in context is your matter trying make him prettier than he is. There was no context varric wanted revenge he condemned him for that despite that himself went after revenge. 

[Knight of Dane]

I must admit I can't make sense of your first sentence.

 

The context of the matter regarding Varric (we are talking about Bartrand right?) is that Bartrand was under the influence of the idol and therefore was innocent of his actions, at least that's what I beleive Sebastian beleives.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I must admit I can't make sense of your first sentence.

 

The context of the matter regarding Varric (we are talking about Bartrand right?) is that Bartrand was under the influence of the idol and therefore was innocent of his actions, at least that's what I beleive Sebastian beleives.

 

He wasn't in fact in that point they didn't knew that and what idol was at this point and that wasn't even his point as i said you try put context desperately he outright codemn his for anger and that it blinds peoples despite he was doing it himself.

• Sebastian: You must forgive your brother.
• Varric: While you were off playing prince, Bartrand trapped us in the Deep Roads and left us to die.
• Sebastian: When you hold onto anger, it colors everything you do.
• Sebastian: You escaped the Deep Roads. You built a life without your brother. Do you still want him haunting you?
• Varric: Oh, go find some beggars to sing to, will you?

Here we go nothing about idol just that he should his revenge let go...

[TheKomandorShepard]

That whole context though is Bartrand talking about the idol and that dwarf servant telling Varric Bartrand went crazy from the idol.

facepalm dude he outright codemns varric for his anger and that he can't let his revenge go not for idol when they didn't even knew about it properties...