Among you guys who dislike "playing the weapon" instead of the kit... How many played ME1?
Ha, played ME1.
The real amusing thing is the alternative to not playing the weapon with the Claymore is usually something like using the Arc Pistol, Venom, Hurricane...
Ha, played ME1.
The real amusing thing is the alternative to not playing the weapon with the Claymore is usually something like using the Arc Pistol, Venom, Hurricane...
You're right, but you can use guns like the Arc Pistol, Hurricane, Talon, or even the Wraith without "playing the weapon," because they give you low enough cooldowns to focus mostly on your powers for damage, supplementing with weapons fire. When you're slapping on a Claymore, powers inherently become secondary because of the weight.
Ha, played ME1.
The real amusing thing is the alternative to not playing the weapon with the Claymore is usually something like using the Arc Pistol, Venom, Hurricane...
Venom is in the same class as the claymore, a power user walking around with an anvil in their hands slowing down the power usage to the point that you cast something every 10 seconds, kill 7 opponents in that time with your uber gun, rinse and repeat. what's the point, may as well use a class that helps your weapon use. Hurrduricane and arc pistol are low weight and viable to use their great power and still be able to use your powers to the fullest.
Hey we've been through is a ton of times, people are going to play the way they want, which is as it should be.
If by abomination of the highest sort you mean the best thing that can happen in this game after Drell, then yeah. Oh but wait, I forgot rule #2 of the caster commandments: thou shall not play the weapon.
Given that rule #1for you is thou shall not reload cancel... I think I'm gonna wash my hands of this weirdness.
Hey, hope you know I was just kidding. Everyone has his own opinion, and that's fine. I'm still open for duos or full matches anytime you want
That said, the claymore is actually a fantastic caster weapon to me. Why? Cause I do not feel that playing a "caster" equals getting more kills with my powers than with my gun. I'm perfectly fine with my powers helping me get gun kills, thank you very much. Very personal opinion of course, but I wonder...
Among you guys who dislike "playing the weapon" instead of the kit... How many played ME1?
Venom is in the same class as the claymore, a power user walking around with an anvil in their hands slowing down the power usage to the point that you cast something every 10 seconds, kill 7 opponents in that time with your uber gun, rinse and repeat. what's the point, may as well use a class that helps your weapon use. Hurrduricane and arc pistol are low weight and viable to use their great power and still be able to use your powers to the fullest.
Hey we've been through is a ton of times, people are going to play the way they want, which is as it should be.
Arc pistol on the collector is interesting. Especially if you're not playing the detonator build. I like it with drill rounds but biotics is mandatory warp ammo for me.
Arc Peestol is how I roll my ACA powers build these days, mostly because my CSMG is still relatively low level (V), and I just find that gun unimpressive anyways. And I feel ya- I always run ACA with Geth Scanner, so its tempting to take Drill Rounds, but how can you pass up that ridiculous Biotic Damage Bonus?
You're right, but you can use guns like the Arc Pistol, Hurricane, Talon, or even the Wraith without "playing the weapon," because they give you low enough cooldowns to focus mostly on your powers for damage, supplementing with weapons fire. When you're slapping on a Claymore, powers inherently become secondary because of the weight.
The absurdity is assuming that "focusing on powers" which tends to mean "combos" is really playing the character, and that if you can spam Throw a few more times in a game you are playing the character and not the gun.
On an AA the cooldown with Arc Pistol for Throw is 1.36s. You hardly need it outside of a detonator though given that Arc Pistol one-shots nearly everything on Gold. With Claymore it is 2.58s... big deal. Throw becomes a reload canceler or simply a detonator for combos either way. It isn't as if you were going with various other mediocre guns and would use Throw regularly to kill things.
Yeh. I love when people say that most of their damage comes out of combos, loading up their hurricane+lolcolyte with warp ammo. Those people like to justify their position in the "cast one power every 10 second with claymore" way.The absurdity is assuming that "focusing on powers" which tends to mean "combos" is really playing the character, and that if you can spam Throw a few more times in a game you are playing the character and not the gun.
On an AA the cooldown with Arc Pistol for Throw is 1.36s. You hardly need it outside of a detonator though given that Arc Pistol one-shots nearly everything on Gold. With Claymore it is 2.58s... big deal. Throw becomes a reload canceler or simply a detonator for combos either way. It isn't as if you were going with various other mediocre guns and would use Throw regularly to kill things.
The absurdity is assuming that "focusing on powers" which tends to mean "combos" is really playing the character, and that if you can spam Throw a few more times in a game you are playing the character and not the gun.
On an AA the cooldown with Arc Pistol for Throw is 1.36s. You hardly need it outside of a detonator though given that Arc Pistol one-shots nearly everything on Gold. With Claymore it is 2.58s... big deal. Throw becomes a reload canceler or simply a detonator for combos either way. It isn't as if you were going with various other mediocre guns and would use Throw regularly to kill things.
What about Warp + Throw? Total time for one combo..
So it really is about combos, something that isn't remotely unique to one class and makes the game more homogenous, rather than using weapons of various weights on a character? Interesting.
Smashdept - CD on singularity and smash with ULM venom = 3.01 secs
CD on singularity and smash with claymore = 4.32 secs
While CDs differing by 0.5 secs doesn't matter much, 1.5 secs is a huge difference, even more so when you take into account the duration of the wave/match. With the claymore, I can get 50 shotgun kills in the regular process of play while I struggle to get 50 biotic kills unless it's a solo or the team is bad.
If I want to play the character by using claymore and using powers for support, I might as well use GI all day erryday with proxy mine for support and claymore or someother heavy weapon for killing. When I play an adept, I'd rather want 50 biotic kills and not 50/75 shotgun kills.
I have tried a claymore HE once and I got 25 shotgun kills before even hitting 10 tech kills. (I don't think I even got 25 tech kills that wave because claymore kills everything without me having to use any of my powers). Then I used CSMG and I got 50 tech kills medal that game by wave 7 or something. To me, the latter option is way better. And hence, I disagree with the opinion that claymore is the best caster weapon. As I mentioned in one of my prev. posts, I'd take 15 or so weapons ahead of claymore on a caster. I know many disagree with me but there, that's my argument. If you want to use the claymore on casters, of course you can. It's definitely not a bad choice at all but saying thats the best caster weapon is something I can never agree with.
I'm not arguing that the Claymore is the best caster weapon. It isn't because of multiplayer imbalance changes.
I am stating that the whole "playing the weapon" argument is disingenuous.
So it really is about combos, something that isn't remotely unique to one class and makes the game more homogenous, rather than using weapons of various weights on a character? Interesting.
I'm not arguing that the Claymore is the best caster weapon. It isn't because of multiplayer imbalance changes.
I am stating that the whole "playing the weapon" argument is disingenuous.
So you're saying that a weapon does not possess the ability to take over the gameplay of a character? Bullchit.
I am saying the argument is spurious given that if you reduce the game enough every character plays exactly the same anyway. If you want to randomly draw some sort of line that separates out "playing the weapon" vs "playing the class," it will be an arbitrary one. But let's see what sort of contrived examples there are.
Let's look at another example: The PPR, my favorite weapon. To get full use out of the PPR you need to pretty much use it from full ammo to almost empty. That's like 7 seconds of no casting.. it completely takes over your character unless you're counting debuffing/incendiary glitching before firing the gun as playing the character..
So a charge gun with mechanics that are shared with only a few other weapons. Obviously when you use a different style gun you will not be playing exactly the same way as some other one, but it is silly to argue that even the PPR can't be used on a "caster," unless you want to further make exceptions for area detonator classes or some sort of "weapon casters."
which would only be true on a soldier/infiltrator/weapons platform like Tsent.
And there it is. A Turian Sentinel is really a "weapon platform" because he has above average passives.
If I used the PPR on the Novaguard for example.. to get the most out of my gun I would not be using Charge or Nova for long periods of time.. so there's no point in playing the Novaguard. I would be playing the PPR, not the Novaguard.
And yet it would still be a Human Vanguard and it would be completely different from playing a GE with PPR or Turian Sentinel with PPR, or Destroyer with PPR. It isn't remotely the same. What you are really describing is that some weapons work differently from other weapons. What a concept.
The "Ruin my cooldownsMOAR" does the same thing.
Yes it ruins the cooldown. God forbid you have to sit at +60% PRS with a weapon that does good damage. It is nice that there are so many overpowered and underweight weapons so that you can instead "play the class."
Look in this thread at interesting alternatives that allow you to "play the class." Wraith was given as one above. Practically every single character plays similar with Claymore or Wraith, it is just they have faster cooldowns with the Wraith.
Heres another point. When youre factoring cooldowns, are you assuming the heavy mods? Bc if you are.. those can unglitch mid match if someone joins, or if you botch it up.. then your cooldown will be even more ruined. If you took weapon damage at rank 4, it could even be negative or near negative.
Yeah so we should add mods and builds to the list of things that prevent you from "playing the class."
The absurdity is assuming that "focusing on powers" which tends to mean "combos" is really playing the character, and that if you can spam Throw a few more times in a game you are playing the character and not the gun.
On an AA the cooldown with Arc Pistol for Throw is 1.36s. You hardly need it outside of a detonator though given that Arc Pistol one-shots nearly everything on Gold. With Claymore it is 2.58s... big deal. Throw becomes a reload canceler or simply a detonator for combos either way. It isn't as if you were going with various other mediocre guns and would use Throw regularly to kill things.
Throw kills very little and is better used as a detonator as you say, but then you need to get something primed. If you are focusing on just throw and nothing else then have at er. It still makes a heck of a lot more sense to play a weapons platform if you are going to almost exclusivity use your weapon.
So it really is about combos, something that isn't remotely unique to one class and makes the game more homogenous, rather than using weapons of various weights on a character? Interesting.
lol, of course it is about combos, that is why when you play a caster you usually get 3 powers in which you can cast combos and thus maximize damage or mook control.
Arc Peestol is how I roll my ACA powers build these days, mostly because my CSMG is still relatively low level (V), and I just find that gun unimpressive anyways. And I feel ya- I always run ACA with Geth Scanner, so its tempting to take Drill Rounds, but how can you pass up that ridiculous Biotic Damage Bonus?
I usually take the CSMG as a secondary just in case stuff goes down. That's what I did on my alt account. Took an arc pistol on the collector and did really well with it. He's right up there with the justicar and the drell for crowd priming.
lol, of course it is about combos, that is why when you play a caster you usually get 3 powers in which you can cast combos and thus maximize damage or mook control.
How do I know if I am playing Human Sentinel or Asari Adept since their biotic explosions seem to look pretty similar to me?
Maybe the Asari BE is more blue than the human one.
The absurdity is assuming that "focusing on powers" which tends to mean "combos" is really playing the character, and that if you can spam Throw a few more times in a game you are playing the character and not the gun.
On an AA the cooldown with Arc Pistol for Throw is 1.36s. You hardly need it outside of a detonator though given that Arc Pistol one-shots nearly everything on Gold. With Claymore it is 2.58s... big deal. Throw becomes a reload canceler or simply a detonator for combos either way. It isn't as if you were going with various other mediocre guns and would use Throw regularly to kill things.
If you're killing most enemies by OSK with your gun, then you're playing the gun. If you're using your powers to take out a lot of enemies, then you're playing the class. No, using the Claymore doesn't really affect your use of Throw very much. It does affect your ability to use Warp/Throw combos as a major damage source against bosses or groups of mooks though. If you can hit a Warp/Throw combo in 3 seconds, you can legitimately use it to take out several enemies at once, or you can use repeated combos to eat armor and barriers from bosses. If it takes 5-6 seconds, then you might as well just shoot the mooks and just use Warp as a debuffer.
Sure, you CAN use the Arc Pistol and "play the gun" instead of the class if you want to. But you don't have to. You can choose any play style you want. With the Claymore, your options are a lot more limited.
So in this bizarre logical construct, if I put a Claymore on a Human Soldier, am I playing the gun or the class? Keep in mind I can run the Talon on him and combo twice as many targets in the same amount of time.
You guys just need to 1v1 until you have it all sorted out.
I'll sit on the sidelines and cheer you on.
The absurdity is assuming that "focusing on powers" which tends to mean "combos" is really playing the character, and that if you can spam Throw a few more times in a game you are playing the character and not the gun.
On an AA the cooldown with Arc Pistol for Throw is 1.36s. You hardly need it outside of a detonator though given that Arc Pistol one-shots nearly everything on Gold. With Claymore it is 2.58s... big deal. Throw becomes a reload canceler or simply a detonator for combos either way. It isn't as if you were going with various other mediocre guns and would use Throw regularly to kill things.
It is not about "spam Throw a few more times in a game" it is about how you kill.
a, If you bring a claymore you kill with the gun.
b, If you bring an acolyte you kill with the combos (pull+reeve, singulariy+shockwave etc).
In case a, you are "playing the gun" because you are killing with the gun. In case b, you are "playing the kit" because you are getting kills by the combos specified by the kit.
So in this bizarre logical construct, if I put a Claymore on a Human Soldier, am I playing the gun or the class? Keep in mind I can run the Talon on him and combo twice as many targets in the same amount of time.
Sometimes there is a great synergy like Claymore + AR, so you are plaing both 
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