304 réponses à ce sujet

[Beerfish]

Because they want to. That should be enough.

Hey I agree.  Except when we have a build discussion on something like the Adept and 1/2 of the builds have no stasis and use a claymore.

[Credit2team]

You pointed out that it happened in this thread, and are yet to provide evidence of any such quotes. I'm waiting...

LOL scroll up two posts, now don't you feel silly?

[Dr. Tim Whatley]

LOL scroll up two posts, now don't you feel silly?

 

You should feel really silly.

 

"The Claymore is the best caster weapon" =/= "ONLY USE THE CLAYMORE!"

 

Surely you're bright enough to see the difference....

[Kislitsin]

"The claymoar cult" wrote:

 

Claymore being the best caster weapon is a long standing joke from the time where weapon supremacy came about. The idea to begin with was to push the point that you don't need to cast powers if you have a Claymore. Back when that all started it was pretty true...100% shield gate and pre-tech explosion era.

 

 

TNS missed the initial whines about claymore adepts of the first era.

 

Actualy, we didn't have AF and bubbles, grenades were not buffed and were quite scant, so weight was a big issue for more kits. And, as you have mentioned, no techsplosions.

 

 

Those were pretty fun times. That huge divide between the console players and PCers because of reload cancel... I had a Wraith VIII after just a couple months (5 upgrades in one weekend ) and had mastered reload hiding with Reave, so I just laughed away despite everyone saying their Wraith III's were underpowered. 

 

What I think is interesting is the Claymore took the role of both the modern Arc Pistol and the Reegar for some time. It was a weapon that dealt lots of damage on any kit like the Arc Pistol, but it also changed the way most kits were played like the Reegar now. It actually ushered in the "casters don't need 200% cooldown" notion. Things were interesting when a single maxed UR was uncommon.

 

 

As for the rest... they are all way up on the overpowered weapons list, so it may in fact be wiser to take them than the Claymore from a max / min perspective.

 

Dear "Kit-playing cult", please, at least try to read through at least several first posts (those are from the page 2), before you rush in with butthurt because not everyone agree with you on min/maxing every caster.

[megabeast37215]

Says the guy whose min/maxing weapon damage instead of min/maxing power combos..

[Kislitsin]

Says the guy whose min/maxing weapon damage instead of min/maxing power combos..

Again, Insulting instead of arguing, I'm quite tired of your BS mega.

[Dr. Tim Whatley]

Again, Insulting instead of arguing, I'm quite tired of your BS mega.

 

That wasn't an insult...

[megabeast37215]

That wasn't an insult...

Inorite. If that was an insult than that makes what he said an insult too doesn't it?

[Credit2team]

You should feel really silly.

 

"The Claymore is the best caster weapon" =/= "ONLY USE THE CLAYMORE!"

 

Surely you're bright enough to see the difference....

I'm bright enough to see you're trolling

[Credit2team]

"The claymoar cult" wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear "Kit-playing cult", please, at least try to read through at least several first posts (those are from the page 2), before you rush in with butthurt because not everyone agree with you on min/maxing every caster.

"kit playing cult"? lolwut?

[Kislitsin]

That wasn't an insult...

I often forget how to english. What I meant is that mega hasn't provide any arguments , but instead he put the statement "Kislitsin is a weapon min/max scrub".
BTW, mega, is min/maxing WD on flamer/DC or op-nade kits can be called a min/maxing?

[Dr. Tim Whatley]

I'm bright enough to see you're trolling

 

You might be the dumbest poster here yet. Just realised you're "thewalrusx". I should've known and not bothered responding to a simpleton. Onto the ignore list you go...

[Kislitsin]

"kit playing cult"? lolwut?

So you have nothing else to say?

[megabeast37215]

I often forget how to english. What I meant is that mega hasn't provide any arguments , but instead he put the statement "Kislitsin is a weapon min/max scrub".
BTW, mega, is min/maxing WD on flamer/DC or op-nade kits can be called a min/maxing?

I think that would be called a hybrid build or a balanced build, depending of course on what your cooldown situation is.

I wanted to tell you earlier.. your Krogan Adept build you wrote a small book about.. its trash. You go through all that crap just to use the Claymore, evos, power efficiency mods.. and it still isn't anywhere near as badass as a Kroadept with a Piranha, who does more weapon deeps, more power combos, can run the omniblade + smart choke + AP IV to be a melee beast and has something actually useful in the Cyclonic/Adrenaline slot. Maybe your weapon choice is gimping your performance with.. you know.. the rest of the kit. But you don't care about such things do you.. so long as you have your beloved Claymore. Stupid build is stupid.

[capn233]

Yeah. He should probably switch to the 66666 build.

[TheNightSlasher]

@Kislitsin: As I said before, to truly appreciate cooldowns and CD management, play a caster build with the collector adept. I'll fully agree with you when you say claymore is a very good weapon and a great fit on destroyer/HSol/GT/infiltrators.

Even on a caster like drell adept, I agree to a certain extent - because drell has only one CD dependent power - reave and his detonator is primarily cluster grenades.

 

You said that krogan adept doesn't care much about cooldowns with claymore. Here's an example: I did a krodept solo with claymoar vs. cerberus (solo may not be the best way to compare but whatever). At the end of the game, I had 75 shotgun kills (before wave 6) and 10 biotic kills medal. Why? Because I can shoot the claymore thrice till my warp cooldown resets. So, warp is basically debuffing the enemy so that claymore does more damage. It's hardly giving me a chance to detonate a BE with shockwave because the only enemy I can do the combo reliably on is an atlas or a bunch of goons.

How is playing krodept this way different from a claymore GI where you'll use a proxy mine instead of warp for debuffing. And GI is way better at this. And this is so not the min/max way of playing Krodept. I can use a whole bunch of weapons instead and cause booms everywhere - surely there can't be so many min/max builds?

 

Numbers: Warp CD on krodept with barrier = 5.16 secs (claymore) and 3.02 secs (wraith) - without 6a passives and power efficiency module. Surely you can't ignore a 2 second difference.

 

You wanted an argument rather than an insult, there it is. I am in no way criticizing you or anything - just trying to have a positive discussion/debate.

[megabeast37215]

Yeah. He should probably switch to the 66666 build.

Why not? Biower doesn't care..

If it's a matter of principal 3 in Barrier and 5 in Shockwave would yield almost identical results.

[capn233]

 You said that krogan adept doesn't care much about cooldowns with claymore. Here's an example: I did a krodept solo with claymoar vs. cerberus (solo may not be the best way to compare but whatever). At the end of the game, I had 75 shotgun kills (before wave 6) and 10 biotic kills medal. Why? Because I can shoot the claymore thrice till my warp cooldown resets. So, warp is basically debuffing the enemy so that claymore does more damage. It's hardly giving me a chance to detonate a BE with shockwave because the only enemy I can do the combo reliably on is an atlas or a bunch of goons.

How is playing krodept this way different from a claymore GI where you'll use a proxy mine instead of warp for debuffing. And GI is way better at this. And this is so not the min/max way of playing Krodept. I can use a whole bunch of weapons instead and cause booms everywhere - surely there can't be so many min/max builds?

 

Krogan Adept may be one of the worst examples for the Claymore in the Adept class mainly because of the barrier penalty.  In any event, it all comes down to what you want to do as you say.

 

Playing GI Claymore is still going to be drastically different than a Krogan Shaman Claymore.  Not simply because GI is a metric assload better with the Claymore either.  That is basically true for every weapon.

[TheNightSlasher]

Krogan Adept may be one of the worst examples for the Claymore in the Adept class mainly because of the barrier penalty.  In any event, it all comes down to what you want to do as you say.

 

Playing GI Claymore is still going to be drastically different than a Krogan Shaman Claymore.  Not simply because GI is a metric assload better with the Claymore either.  That is basically true for every weapon.

 

I know krodept is a bad example. Kislitsin mentioned that krodept doesn't care much about CDs in one of his posts (too lazy to dig it up). My point was in response to that. May be GI is a bad comparison. Warp > claymore krodept without a lot of BEs is similar to a whole bunch of kits that have either debuffs or weapon buff powers.

 

Now, consider a wraith/piranha/eviscerator krodept with some form of melee attachment and the ability to do BEs once every 3 seconds. Warp > shoot > BE with shock wave > get close up for finishing off with melee in krogan style > detonate barrier for lulz > move to next spawn and repeat. Not that style of gameplay is what I want when I play a krodept. Of course you can do the same with a claymore too but the entire process takes 10+ secs where as with piranha/wraith/etc, it takes 6-7 seconds. Efficiency, uniqueness everything included.

I guess this was a reply meant for Kislitsin, and not necessarily directed towards you

[Kislitsin]

What krodept??? I've been "wrighting the book" about VHA. And I've never said that krodept doesn't care about CD's, vice versa, I've stated somewhere that, ironically, he cares more than others and is gimped with claymore.

Guys, pls.

[TheNightSlasher]

1. Well, that was meant to balance things, before hurrdurr/talon/wraith were overbuffed.

2. VHA/Krodept on the other hand doesn't.

@Kislitsin: There.

Well, I am pretty sure I could extend my point to HA too (4.32 secs with claymore vs. 2.7 secs with wraith is not negligible). Sorry to be so picky with numbers and such but oh well.

[megabeast37215]

Stardusk did a Claymore Kroadept Thunderdumb duo where he skipped Shockwave and went full survivability/weapon damage. I watched the video (the one where the Prime jumped down the stairs). He would use Warp about once every 4 shots.. and it was just a debuff and enabler of the Incendiary glitch.. and sometimes as a detonator of FEs. You know what he called that build? A biotic soldier.

See.. the point is, Stardusk wasn't deluding himself into thinking he was playing as an adept. He knew what his build was.. a really tanky soldier.. with a biotic debuff.

[megabeast37215]

WTF is the VHA? Volus Human Adept?

[Kislitsin]

@Kislitsin: There

Dude. You are not picky, like not at all. I've been talking about power amps... HA doesn't benefit from them so he could use that slot for PR mods. In leu of his survivability(CM4/AM3) ofc. Krodept doesn't benefit from them as well (though he benefits big time from CMs).

Man, I am sorry If I can't write clear enough or can't understand something. ENG isn't my native language, even not my native language group.

[capn233]

I know krodept is a bad example. Kislitsin mentioned that krodept doesn't care much about CDs in one of his posts (too lazy to dig it up). My point was in response to that. May be GI is a bad comparison. Warp > claymore krodept without a lot of BEs is similar to a whole bunch of kits that have either debuffs or weapon buff powers.

 

Now, consider a wraith/piranha/eviscerator krodept with some form of melee attachment and the ability to do BEs once every 3 seconds. Warp > shoot > BE with shock wave > get close up for finishing off with melee in krogan style > detonate barrier for lulz > move to next spawn and repeat. Not that style of gameplay is what I want when I play a krodept. Of course you can do the same with a claymore too but the entire process takes 10+ secs where as with piranha/wraith/etc, it takes 6-7 seconds. Efficiency, uniqueness everything included.

I guess this was a reply meant for Kislitsin, and not necessarily directed towards you

 

I know you weren't talking to me, but I was just continuing the discussion of that character.

 

HA is actually pretty good with Claymore.  And in reality BE spam vs Claymore usage + biotics as far as max and mining goes just depends on if the weapon is more "powerful" than Claymore or not on the weapon power hierarchy.  And it definitely depends on the faction you are playing against (Geth have more shields, worse for BE spam, relatively), and which specific character (HA spamming Warp + Shockwave makes up more ground v Claymore since that is the best biotic combo v armor).

 

Incidentally this is also why CSMG only is not better than Claymore, especially on biotics.  If someone takes CSMG is better than Claymore to actually mean "CSMG + Acolyte / Talon" is more powerful than Claymore, congrats you just stated the obvious.  That has a lot more to do with the later pistols than the CSMG.  On the above HA example, CSMG can come out a little ahead of the Claymore vs armor, as long as the Claymore user does not detonate the BE as a finisher.  For less powerful BE combos, it will not catch up vs armor.