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[leaguer of one]

The Adventures of Tallis

 

Also Starring Hawke 

You can say that about omega, lair of the shadow broker and Stolen Memory as well....Yet there is not this type of hate for it...

[Felya87]

You can say that about omega, lair of the shadow broker and Stolen Memory as well....Yet there is not this type of hate for it...

because in those DLC it wasn't so overly done. the presence of Shepard/other character is balanced. they help each other, and usually Shepard have to do some important decisions about the mission. and in the end, Shepard have the last word. not the other character.

in MotA, only Tallis make decision, or at least only hers have value.

[Han Shot First]

because in those DLC it wasn't so overly done. the presence of Shepard/other character is balanced. they help each other, and usually Shepard have to do same importand decision about the mission. and in the end, Shepard have the last word. not the other character.

in MotA, only Tallis make decion, or at least only hers have value.

 

Exactly.

 

Shepard isn't reduced to a minor supporting character in any of those DLCs, unlike Hawke's role in MotA.

[leaguer of one]

because in those DLC it wasn't so overly done. the presence of Shepard/other character is balanced. they help each other, and usually Shepard have to do same importand decision about the mission. and in the end, Shepard have the last word. not the other character.

in MotA, only Tallis make decion, or at least only hers have value.

BS.  Aria had a speech and took up most of the spot light. Kasumi had way more jokes and comment than Shepard and took down a battle ship by herself. Lotsb is the only exception because it highlighted Liara's and Shepard's romance and that was it. Seriously, you can say the same thing about those dlc's like you're saying about mark of the assasin. And Last word does not matter. If it come down to the issue of the decision that's an issue with the dlc's plot, not the character.

[leaguer of one]

Exactly.

 

Shepard isn't reduced to a minor supporting character in any of those DLCs, unlike Hawke's role in MotA.

Are you kidding me? Have you not played omega?

[Cylan Cooper]

You can say that about omega, lair of the shadow broker and Stolen Memory as well....Yet there is not this type of hate for it...

I disagree about LotSB. I can't say much about Omega because I haven't played that dlc and I probably won't for a while.

 

What separates MotA from LotSB is that Shepard has a personal stake in helping Liara out because A) she's his friend and the shadow broker could pose a threat to him as well. There's an immediate benefit to Shepard once Liara becomes the new Shadow Broker. Hawke could potentially have no reason to help Tallis and doesn't really gain much besides an amulet.

 

Stolen Memory is a loyalty mission, dlc or not. By their design it's Shepard helping them out with a problem. Again there's an immediate benefit to him because Kasumi will do better in the suicide mission. Another thing that separates this from MotA is a meaningful choice. Shepard can do away with the grey box without Kasumi going "Ahahahaha no" and walking away like Tallis can with the Qunari names.

[Gtdef]

Dude, that's how religions concepts, dogmas, and practices change. A religion comes into a new location and it mixes with the belief and practices of the people of the new area. Their is nothing wrong with fining a middle ground with it and that does not make he not Qun for doing so. You saying she is not Qun for doing this is like saying someone is not a christian because they don't go to mass.

Yes of course, see all those half Muslim half Christian people after the crusades that found common ground and lived happily ever after. Same with christianization of scandinavia. It was Jesus and Odin playing golf and having aged whiskey every friday. Orthodox and Catholic people also were best friends back in the day. They would have lengthy debates with the protestants about the nature of religion and the shape of the earth. Native Americans also found middle ground. Religions weren't just ways of life. They were military, political and economic alliances and no high ranking official would dare to go against the teachings or he would have a really bad time. Trust me, I'm Greek and the vast majority of my compatriots even today think that being christian and being Greek is the same thing and that's because Turks were smarter than us 500 years ago.

 

You don't compare not following the Qun to not going to mass. You compare it to commiting suicide. You get excommunicated. Denied heaven. Can't even have a burial in a christian graveyard. That's it. Also Qunari don't have the concept of Metanoia, Repentance. So if you commit the sin, you lose. When you follow the Qun you agree to be a part of a whole. You surrender your name and your individuality. Your arguement is valid for some small groups of population that wanted to survive the proximity to another religion, but it's not really the same thing cause Tallis is high ranking. She is expected to promote the Qun.

 

I took some liberties with history to make my point, sorry for that, and I really didn't want to go down that way. I don't think that a religious and historical debate is even relevant to the topic. Tallis presents herself as a Qunari. And then doesn't act like one. If she doesn't feel like it, why would she do that? She makes a disservice to both herself and the other Qunari. I think the whole premise of her character is shallow.

[LOLandStuff]

Hawke is like Snarf.  Snarf!!!Snarf!!!

[leaguer of one]

I disagree about LotSB. I can't say much about Omega because I haven't played that dlc and I probably won't for a while.

 

What separates MotA from LotSB is that Shepard has a personal stake in helping Liara out because A) she's his friend and the shadow broker could pose a threat to him as well. There's an immediate benefit to Shepard once Liara becomes the new Shadow Broker. Hawke could potentially have no reason to help Tallis and doesn't really gain much besides an amulet.

 

Stolen Memory is a loyalty mission, dlc or not. By their design it's Shepard helping them out with a problem. Again there's an immediate benefit to him because Kasumi will do better in the suicide mission. Another thing that separates this from MotA is a meaningful choice. Shepard can do away with the grey box without Kasumi going "Ahahahaha no" and walking away like Tallis can with the Qunari names.

Ok. I'll give you Lotsb. But Stolen Memory and MotA are basicly the same plot concept just with different resolution. If the issue is about resolution then the issue is more the dlc's plot then the characters. My arguement is to count the issue of which character gets the most focus, not resolution of the dlc's. Those are two different issues.

[Barquiel]

I thought Tallis as a character had some potential and I liked her well enough in MotA. If she's in DA:I, fine. If not, fine too.

But I admit that MotA has an ending that leaves a bitter taste after a pretty well done DLC...

[Felya87]

BS.  Aria had a speech and took up most of the spot light. Kasumi had way more jokes and comment than Shepard and took down a battle ship by herself. Lotsb is the only exception because it highlighted Liara's and Shepard's romance and that was it. Seriously, you can say the same thing about those dlc's like you're saying about mark of the assasin. And Last word does not matter. If it come down to the issue of the decision that's an issue with the dlc's plot, not the character.

 

Aria made the speech after at least two important decision of Shepard

Spoiler

sacrifice the civils of Omega, or find out that the bad guy was telling a lie, or, if ingeneer, find an alternative solution, that Aria would not have find on her own? kill the Cerberus guy or letting Aria kill him?

and in the speech end, in truth, seem more as if it was a Shepard style speech. meaning Aria have learned a lot from Shepard.

 

In Omega Shepard have more opportunities to prove herself. she saved Aria at least two time, fighting alone. In Mota there isn't one time Tallis really need Hawke to save her life. because oh, Tallis is too magnificent to let herself being captured without a good motivation and knowing already how to get out! Aria instead needed Shepard help.

[leaguer of one]

Yes of course, see all those half Muslim half Christian people after the crusades that found common ground and lived happily ever after. Same with christianization of scandinavia. It was Jesus and Odin playing golf and having aged whiskey every friday. Orthodox and Catholic people also were best friends back in the day. They would have lengthy debates with the protestants about the nature of religion and the shape of the earth. Native Americans also found middle ground. Religions weren't just ways of life. They were military, political and economic alliances and no high ranking official would dare to go against the teachings or he would have a really bad time. Trust me, I'm Greek and the vast majority of my compatriots even today think that being christian and being Greek is the same thing and that's because Turks were smarter than us 500 years ago.

 

You don't compare not following the Qun to not going to mass. You compare it to commiting suicide. You get excommunicated. Denied heaven. Can't even have a burial in a christian graveyard. That's it. Also Qunari don't have the concept of Metanoia, Repentance. So if you commit the sin, you lose. When you follow the Qun you agree to be a part of a whole. You surrender your name and your individuality. Your arguement is valid for some small groups of population that wanted to survive the proximity to another religion, but it's not really the same thing cause Tallis is high ranking. She is expected to promote the Qun.

 

I took some liberties with history to make my point, sorry for that, and I really didn't want to go down that way. I don't think that a religious and historical debate is even relevant to the topic. Tallis presents herself as a Qunari. And then doesn't act like one. If she doesn't feel like it, why would she do that? She makes a disservice to both herself and the other Qunari. I think the whole premise of her character is shallow.

The ironic thing there are people of different religions coexisting. The issue is that it takes time. Their moderates and extremist of all religions. We do have people with different religions coexsisting today. And to get their we had to have people with mordate ideas come forward can make their arguement. Just because it was not done easily does not mean it can't esist.

 

And I'm not taking liberties with history. And it is relevant because the history and religion of da is a reflection of our own.

And Yes I can compare fallowing the qun to going to mass. This is an issue of dogma and the conflict of the issue of how a religion is fallow that causes conflict in all religions. It happens everytime as people and customs change. It's a valid point.

[leaguer of one]

Aria made the speech after at least two important decision of Shepard

Spoiler

sacrifice the civils of Omega, or find out that the bad guy was telling a lie, or, if ingeneer, find an alternative solution, that Aria would not have find on her own? kill the Cerberus guy or letting Aria kill him?

and in the speech end, in truth, seem more as if it was a Shepard style speech. meaning Aria have learned a lot from Shepard.

 

In Omega Shepard have more opportunities to prove herself. she saved Aria at least two time, fighting alone. In Mota there isn't one time Tallis really need Hawke to save her life. because oh, Tallis is too magnificent to let herself being captured without a good motivation and knowing already how to get out! Aria instead needed Shepard help.

1.She made the speech before that, not after.

2. Tallis come in asking Hawk for his/her help to sneak in, then ask Hawk to help her get the list back.

[Gtdef]

The ironic thing there are people of different religions coexisting. The issue is that it takes time. Their moderates and extremist of all religions. We do have people with different religions coexsisting today. And to get their we had to have people with mordate ideas come forward can make their arguement. Just because it was not done easily does not mean it can't esist.

 

And I'm not taking liberties with history. And it is relevant because the history and religion of da is a reflection of our own.

And Yes I can compare fallowing the qun to going to mass. This is an issue of dogma and the conflict of the issue of how a religion is fallow that causes conflict in all religions. It happens everytime as people and customs change. It's a valid point.

You misunderstood me. I don't mean that you can't compare the world of Thedas to our own. You can and you should. I do it too. What I said is that I don't think the comparison with the mass is fair. I think the comparison to suicide is more appropriate for the context of our discussion. 

 

By the way, bringing the modern age into this discussion won't serve your arguement. I don't know where are you from, but I live in a country surrounded by different religions and I can tell you with absolute certainty that there is uneasiness about it.  

[Han Shot First]

Are you kidding me? Have you not played omega?

 

Shepard can spend the entire DLC supporting Nyreen and opposing Aria. Shepard can also 'soften' Aria and get her to spare Petrovsky, something that is entirely against her nature.

 

Where exactly is Shepard forced to play second fiddle to Aria in that DLC?

[Felya87]

1.She made the speech before that, not after.

2. Tallis come in asking Hawk for his/her help to sneak in, then ask Hawk to help her get the list back.

1) than I'm even more right: Shepard had the last word. I'm referring to the final speech of Aria to the people of Omega who survived to all the fight against Cerberus. Still, Aria is the leader of Omega, it would have been isnulting for Shepard speak to the people of Omega instead of her. But Shepard saved her behind a lot, and made decision who affect these persons.

 

2) and in none of those situation Hawke have a way to prove herself good at least as much as Tallis,

[Nefla]

When I played MoTA, I was like "who the heck is this Mary-Sue" and "why am I suddenly 100x more incompetent and ineffectual than before?" The companions were all relegated to the background while Tallis was featured prominently in every scene, even above the player. She had no flaws, she could preform super human feats of killing 10 guys in two seconds while flipping around like an acrobat, she shows you and your companions up at every turn, etc...I she's in the game I would skip any and all content she was involved in.

[In Exile]

When I played MoTA, I was like "who the heck is this Mary-Sue" and "why am I suddenly 100x more incompetent and ineffectual than before?" The companions were all relegated to the background while Tallis was featured prominently in every scene, even above the player. She had no flaws, she could preform super human feats of killing 10 guys in two seconds while flipping around like an acrobat, she shows you and your companions up at every turn, etc...I she's in the game I would skip any and all content she was involved in.

 

I just want her to teach me the Jedi Mind trick she used at the end of the game. 

[LOLandStuff]

Hawke and the rest acted like her own personal filming crew. Just following around and recording her antics. 

[leaguer of one]

You misunderstood me. I don't mean that you can't compare the world of Thedas to our own. You can and you should. I do it too. What I said is that I don't think the comparison with the mass is fair. I think the comparison to suicide is more appropriate for the context of our discussion. 

 

By the way, bringing the modern age into this discussion won't serve your arguement. I don't know where are you from, but I live in a country surrounded by different religions and I can tell you with absolute certainty that there is uneasiness about it.  

I'm not bring the modern age into the argument. I'm say the argument of a middle ground has been done in the past for many religions.

 

And Yes it's far to compare it to a mass because this is an argument of religious practices. Many people have have different beliefs to how they fallow their religion and going to mass is under the same concept. There are christians who do believe not going to mass means you're not really a christian or if you have different view of things. That the same arguement you are using. It's not different from a baptist saying because a person is catholic they are not really a christian.

[WildOrchid]

I thought Tallis as a character had some potential and I liked her well enough in MotA. If she's in DA:I, fine. If not, fine too.

But I admit that MotA has an ending that leaves a bitter taste after a pretty well done DLC...

 

Same here, i don't dislike Tallis at all... not to mention MotA was fun DLC (except the way it ended).

[leaguer of one]

1) than I'm even more right: Shepard had the last word. I'm referring to the final speech of Aria to the people of Omega who survived to all the fight against Cerberus. Still, Aria is the leader of Omega, it would have been isnulting for Shepard speak to the people of Omega instead of her. But Shepard saved her behind a lot, and made decision who affect these persons.

 

2) and in none of those situation Hawke have a way to prove herself good at least as much as Tallis,

1. Shepard had no effect on whether or not the people of omega fought or not. That still means Aria took most of the spot light.

2.Outside of all the fights he/she had to do including kill giant lizard 3-4 times.

[sandalisthemaker]

As someone who really dislikes the Qun, it was unfortunate that I couldn't stop her once her mission was revealed. 

 

My Hawke would have totally taken that list of Qunari sleeper agents by force if possible.  They even teased us with that murder icon too.

[leaguer of one]

Hawke and the rest acted like her own personal filming crew. Just following around and recording her antics. 

Seriously, she some how killed the Wyriven and Arcane horror by her self?And the Orliasian spoiled noble?

[leaguer of one]

Shepard can spend the entire DLC supporting Nyreen and opposing Aria. Shepard can also 'soften' Aria and get her to spare Petrovsky, something that is entirely against her nature.

 

Where exactly is Shepard forced to play second fiddle to Aria in that DLC?

Outside of her speech comments and her blowing up people around her.

 

Also, you argument is about dlc resolution not Just character treatment. You can easily argue ageist Tallis, you just can't have the resolution you want. That's the issue of the dlc's plot, not the character.