132 réponses à ce sujet

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Headcanon

 

How's it headcanon? Shepard specifically calls her out on it post-mission.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Even if this is 100% true, how does it have anything to do with the likelihood that Ashley is a racist?

 

Another point: I think it's a major fallacy to equate well-written characters with characters who have traits that we would admire in real life. I don't like racists; I also don't like people who totally stab me in the back, but this doesn't mean that it's bad writing when Zevran does it at Denerim in DA:O. The question is this: Does it make sense that Ashley has the attitude towards aliens that she has, given her background, life experiences, etc.?
 

 

Does it make sense? To me? No. To me, it seems she got screwed by the alliance for her Grandfathers actions. And to me, it seems like she holds a grudge against aliens for it, and not the alliance. 

[Jorji Costava]

Does it make sense? To me? No. To me, it seems she got screwed by the alliance for her Grandfathers actions. And to me, it seems like she holds a grudge against aliens for it, and not the alliance. 

 

Again, that's precisely not the issue. The key to good writing (not that I really know what that is) isn't to make every character respond to their circumstances in a 100% rational way. The question is, is there a plausible cause-and-effect sequence of events that could have led from her life experiences (limited contact with aliens, tightly knit with a pretty nationalistic family, etc.) to her present attitudes? IMO, it's more important to make the character believable than it is to make them awesome and cool from the POV of the player.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Again, that's precisely not the issue. The key to good writing (not that I really know what that is) isn't to make every character respond to their circumstances in a 100% rational way. The question is, is there a plausible cause-and-effect sequence of events that could have led from her life experiences (limited contact with aliens, tightly knit with a pretty nationalistic family, etc.) to her present attitudes? IMO, it's more important to make the character believable than it is to make them awesome and cool from the POV of the player.

 

Alright, I can respect that perspective when it comes down to a question of writing characters. I tend to look at the characters from the rational perspective. I'm fine with not making them awesome and cool from my own POV, but then again, those that aren't awesome and cool in my book are usually disparaged as idiots.

[TheTurtle]

Can't we just agree that she's a little bit racist, but then again everyone is.

[Kurt M.]

Can't we just agree that she's a little bit racist, but then again everyone is.

 

*sigh*

 

Defending your country/world, your culture and your way of life isn't racism. For the love of....

[TheTurtle]

*sigh*

 

Defending your country/world, your culture and your way of life isn't racism. For the love of....

Don't start with me on this I'm one of the biggest Ashley fans on this forum. This comment was a joke more than anything, but that song still rings true.

[grey_wind]

Ashley may have eclipsed Kaidan in writing quality in ME1, but Kaidan's writing in ME3 totally outshines hers.

 

It's quite impressive too, considering Kaidan literally has no real character development arc.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Ashley may have eclipsed Kaidan in writing quality in ME1, but Kaidan's writing in ME3 totally outshines hers.

 

It's quite impressive too, considering Kaidan literally has no real character development arc.

 

Ashley meanwhile gets character regression and flanderization of certain traits.

[Obadiah]

I wouldn't have minded some more of that inter-species insight from ME1. Ashley doesn't really do a whole lot except deal with her family in ME3. Kaiden doesn't really do a whole lot either, there just seems to be lil more dialog.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

But the thing about Ashley is that in ME1 she's a very competent tank, she's not very feminine, and thus fits the trope: Vasquez must die. Kaidan survives.

[DeinonSlayer]

But the thing about Ashley is that in ME1 she's a very competent tank, she's not very feminine, and thus fits the trope: Vasquez must die. Kaidan survives.

Eh... Michelle Rodriguez dies in every movies I've ever seen her in. Thought it was nice to shake things up for once. Ashley survives.

[SporkFu]

Is being anti-trope a trope in itself? 

[DeinonSlayer]

Is being anti-trope a trope in itself?

...possibly?

[Shuidizi]

The real problem with Ashley in ME3 is actually the opposite, she's no longer "racist" or "religious" and barely talks after recruiting her. Good or bad those things make her stand out and give her some character. Taking all those away she's basically reduced to a boring grunt that has a minor drinking problem. It may be charming but it is not interesting anymore.

 

In short, Ashley is merely a shell of her former glory in ME3. And of course this is nothing new, but I still want to point out that of all the main squadmates in ME3, Ashley got screwed over the most IMO.

[Kurt M.]

Don't start with me on this I'm one of the biggest Ashley fans on this forum. This comment was a joke more than anything, but that song still rings true.

 

Except the fact that it calls "racism" to something that it isn't.

 

I care a crap about if that song is a joke or not. It's still misleading.

[Ryriena]

Hittler was Jewish on his mother's side (which is the side that counts) of the family but he kept that hidden from the rest of the SS.


However, Ashely is just predjust for exmaple during 9/11 people that looked remotely Muslium were looked down on. In fact, it got too the point I was one the few that hanged out with the Muslium students but due to predjust I was called a Arab lover by my own sister. I told her, I respect the people to much to see them as just Arab they are just people too me. This was due to indifferences to the people and their culture not because she was racist but because she was believing the media hype over how evil Muslims are.

[TheTurtle]

Except the fact that it calls "racism" to something that it isn't.

I care a crap about if that song is a joke or not. It's still misleading.

How?

[Pirate Queen Isabela]

I don't know why people are bringing real life issues into this thread, it's borderline offensive, especially if we are debating a fictional character's racism against fictional aliens or lack of thereof. 

 

I think the word I associate with Ashley's behavior towards aliens isn't racism, but prejudice. She has never worked with aliens before, she was raised in a way that made her wary of aliens, but not the point of pure racism, imo. I still truly don't understand why people say Ashley's cautiousness is not justified, I mean:

 

• Liara: Daughter of a indoctrinated matriarch, anyone?
• Wrex: Violent mercenary? Got in trouble with the law multiple times?
• Garrus: Garrus "I don't see the point following the law or rules and will voice this on a military ship" Vakarian?

And my favourite is in the third game where a diplomatic Quarian vessel has stealth systems. I wonder where Tali could have gotten that. 

 

Now let's look at the characters who are excused for their racism:

 

• Garrus was raised to view all Krogan as savage and was surprised Wrex wasn't, and also justifies the genophage.
• Mordin being surprised "one of his own" can be as savage as brutal as he thinks all Krogan are.
• Tali literally is fine with her father torturing the Geth and in her POV it's better to keep a dead man's name clean than present the evidence, also want's to kill all the Geth.
• Grunt dreams of torturing Turians.

But of course, Ashley is so mean, weh weh. Garrus can say the genophage is justified and people will say "oh it's not racism, he and Wrex are total bro's!!". Rarely do people even talk about Mordin's comments. 

[Ryriena]

I do this as an example to prove, why she says things like that in the first place. I bring up why Ashley thinks this way since they are people with little interaction with other races in the first place. It's still racist but the thing is they show character development and grow out of those beliefs. Mordin even goes on to cure the Genophage and Wrex leads an army of Krogan to help the Turians. Garrus also goes through massive character growth and does see the Krogan as less violent. It's just Ashely doesn't go through that growth the writers dropped the ball with her. It's doesn't help her interactions with the crew members are bugged.

[Iakus]

How's it headcanon? Shepard specifically calls her out on it post-mission.

 

Not my Shepard.  He tell her "Kaidan's death is on me"

[Iakus]

Ashley meanwhile gets character regression and flanderization of certain traits.

 

While true, this is, sadly not unique to her.

[Iakus]

I don't know why people are bringing real life issues into this thread, it's borderline offensive, especially if we are debating a fictional character's racism against fictional aliens or lack of thereof. 

 

I think the word I associate with Ashley's behavior towards aliens isn't racism, but prejudice. She has never worked with aliens before, she was raised in a way that made her wary of aliens, but not the point of pure racism, imo. I still truly don't understand why people say Ashley's cautiousness is not justified, I mean:

 

• Liara: Daughter of a indoctrinated matriarch, anyone?
• Wrex: Violent mercenary? Got in trouble with the law multiple times?
• Garrus: Garrus "I don't see the point following the law or rules and will voice this on a military ship" Vakarian?

And my favourite is in the third game where a diplomatic Quarian vessel has stealth systems. I wonder where Tali could have gotten that. 

 

Now let's look at the characters who are excused for their racism:

 

• Garrus was raised to view all Krogan as savage and was surprised Wrex wasn't, and also justifies the genophage.
• Mordin being surprised "one of his own" can be as savage as brutal as he thinks all Krogan are.
• Tali literally is fine with her father torturing the Geth and in her POV it's better to keep a dead man's name clean than present the evidence, also want's to kill all the Geth.
• Grunt literally dreams of torturing Turians.

But of course, Ashley is so mean, weh weh. Garrus can say the genophage is justified and people will say "oh it's not racism, he and Wrex are total bro's!!". Rarely do people even talk about Mordin's comments. 

Don't forget Javik and Wrex openly discussing recipes for salarian while hanging out at an STG facility.

[Ryriena]

Don't forget Javik and Wrex openly discussing recipes for salarian while hanging out at an STG facility.

Javki and Wrex are Mr Tolls so I aspect them to say something like that.

[Pirate Queen Isabela]

 Mordin even goes on to cure the Genophage and Wrex leads an army of Krogan to help the Turians. Garrus also goes through massive character growth and does see the Krogan as less violent. It's just Ashely doesn't go through that growth the writers dropped the ball with her. It's doesn't help her interactions with the crew members are bugged.

 

Wrex only leads the Krogan to help Turian's after the Genophage is cured. He doesn't do it because he cares about Turian's all of a sudden.

 

Also where does Garrus see the Krogan as less violent? I don't remember seeing anything of that sort, maybe I missed it?

 

Ashley change her views strongly, heartbroken over Tali, seeing her as a sister. The tiny amount of screentime in ME2, she is actively against Cerberus, a known anti-alien terrorist group.