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[Mockingword]

Isolde was a deeply religious woman and she does never mention "fear of abuse". Rather, her chieftain concern was that Connor would be "taken away". And this given the fact that her wealth and political power would make it easy for her to make a three days trip and visit the boy.

 

It is more than obvious that Isolde was simply not willing to lose even a single day with Connor despite the potential he had for destruction and, surprise surprise, he ended up killing hundreds of people.

This one is entirely on Isolde and no one else.

SHE WANTS TO SPEND TIME WITH HER CHILD! BURN HER!

[Captain_Harkness]

I'm hoping I get to gather a army of mages and send the Templar's to their nonexistent god in a blaze of magical fire. You know, like should of happened to the darkspawn in DA:O except the chantry officials didn't trust the mages enough to be on the front lines and told them to shove off.

[Hellion Rex]

Hence why I think they should be collared and given a liberal dose of that Qunari indoctrination juice. 

Tsar, Tsar, Tsar...whatever am I going to do with you. Collaring people sure as hell gets us nowhere. If you want to see Thedas go up in flames, then I suggest you try forcing your Qunari solution.

[General TSAR]

Tsar, Tsar, Tsar...whatever am I going to do with you. Collaring people sure as hell gets us nowhere. If you want to see Thedas go up in flames, then I suggest you try forcing your Qunari solution.

It's quite simple to do as long as you do it discretely and systematically at once.

 

Put the Qunari juice in the water supplies and make sure the dosage is just enough that the Mages won't notice the gradual breaking down of their will to resist and everything else is smooth sailing. 

 

The collaring aspect is psychological warfare. 

 

EDIT: Scratch the psychological warfare, the collars will be magically infused restraints like ones used on Kotjan or w/e his name is and Knight LTs will have the control rods or scrolls or staffs. 

[Hellion Rex]

It's quite simple to do as long as you do it discretely and systematically at once.

 

Put the Qunari juice in the water supplies and make sure the dosage is just enough that the Mages won't notice the gradual breaking down of their will to resist and everything else is smooth sailing. 

 

The collaring aspect is psychological warfare. 

 

EDIT: Scratch the psychological warfare, the collars will be magically infused restraints like ones used on Kotjan or w/e his name is and Knight LTs will have the control rods or scrolls or staffs. 

O___O

[General TSAR]

O___O

What? I'm simply treating them as weapons and not people.

[Hellion Rex]

Lol, you know what Tsar?

 

You do you. And I'll do me.

[General TSAR]

Lol, you know what Tsar?

 

You do you. And I'll do me.

In the words of Vladimir Cousland; "Is that some kind of euphemism?"

[Hellion Rex]

In the words of Vladimir Cousland; "Is that some kind of euphemism?"

I leave that up to your imagination, man.

[zambingo]

I would just like to point out that both Rivaini seers and Avvar shamans both had rituals were they got possessed, but at least in the Avvars case they know how to force out a spirit that doesn't want to leave. Just in case you people didn't notice they never say the seers or shamans are possessed by demons. They always says spirits. That's a huge difference. Also in every game so far we have found ways to force a demon out of someone who is possessed. We know for a fact that anyone can be freed from possession without everyone dieing. I would also like to say that if you are arguing that Templars treat mages so bad because the chantry can't rein them in all the way then the Chantry has failed in the duty and is responsible for all they do. My last point is that mages do need someone top hold them responsible for their actions and that can be mages or it can be non-mages. It doesn't matter either way. What you can't have is someone that uses religious doctrine as reasoning or an excuses for their actions. The second the Templar says "well the maker says" their argument is invalid.
O and bringing up Tevinter every time someone mentions what happens when mages are free doesn't make them wrong. The tevinter magisters are massive scumbags because they are massive scumbages, NOT because they can do magic.

I can agree on several things, but the highlighted I cannot side with.

A religious text is meant to guide actions, it also is meant to chronicle history. Whether the text is truthful or not can be an issue, but that is an academic matter... usually involving an extremely important word which is 'context'. Also regardless of the text having truth, being truth, or just being parables to live by the interpretation of those texts' messages can obviously vary... but again that is an academic matter.

An officer enforcing laws as s/he has been taught is not necessarily invalidated by referencing the text of what they are taught.

While IRL text like the US Constitution and our laws are not "religious", well not intended to be "religious", referencing those texts when dealing with a situation should not necessarily invalidate your point. Instead referencing texts which are supposed to guide your actions only displays where you are coming from.

In a situation where debate can be had knowing where someone is coming from provides ground to start a discussion.

In an immediate danger situation such as governed by "realm of authority" / jurisdiction then knowing where someone's coming from allows you to heed or rebel... and given the level of your actions maintain a balanced, consistent moral standing.

To see this concept adequately detailed in another fictional universe watch Qui-Gon Jinn maneuver thru Star Wars: The Phantom Menace.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Good luck getting the Qunari to give you their Qamek, TSAR. I think we learned that they aren't the biggest on sharing with others. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I also strongly suspect Qamek doesn't work that way.

[General TSAR]

Good luck getting the Qunari to give you their Qamek, TSAR. I think we learned that they aren't the biggest on sharing with others. 

That's alright, there's plenty of raiders and independent agents who would be willing to screw with the Qunari for a boatload of cheddar.

[Mistic]

A religious text is meant to guide actions, it also is meant to chronicle history. Whether the text is truthful or not can be an issue, but that is an academic matter... usually involving an extremely important word which is 'context'. Also regardless of the text having truth, being truth, or just being parables to live by the interpretation of those texts' messages can obviously vary... but again that is an academic matter.

An officer enforcing laws as s/he has been taught is not necessarily invalidated by referencing the text of what they are taught.

While IRL text like the US Constitution and our laws are not "religious", well not intended to be "religious", referencing those texts when dealing with a situation should not necessarily invalidate your point. Instead referencing texts which are supposed to guide your actions only displays where you are coming from.

In a situation where debate can be had knowing where someone is coming from provides ground to start a discussion.

In an immediate danger situation such as governed by "realm of authority" / jurisdiction then knowing where someone's coming from allows you to heed or rebel... and given the level of your actions maintain a balanced, consistent moral standing.

 

I agree, up to a point. Lawful positions provide a clear idea of where that person's argument comes from, true. However, although clarity and consistency are welcome, they're pretty useless if there isn't a common ground.

 

The Templars using the Andrastian argument, for example, falls flat against non-Andrastians. Let's suppose I'm a Dalish Keeper. Why should I care about what the Maker supposedly says to the shemlen? Or a pagan Rivaini seer. Any argument that uses "because the Maker says so" is automatically invalid for them, since they don't believe in the Maker.

 

However, I agree, there's a catch: the Mage-Templar conflict is not a war of Andrastians against non-Andrastians. So far, the mages are shown to be generally Andrastians, even if they do tend to have a rather lax approach at it. The Chantry can provide common ground for them, even if it's just "Andraste would facepalm if she saw the current state of things".

[MisterJB]

SHE WANTS TO SPEND TIME WITH HER CHILD! BURN HER!

CONNOR BURNED REDCLIFF! I SURE AM GLAD ISOLDE SPENT TIME WITH HIM! TOTALLY WORTH ALL THOSE LIVES!

[Todd23]

CONNOR BURNED REDCLIFF! I SURE AM GLAD ISOLDE SPENT TIME WITH HIM! TOTALLY WORTH ALL THOSE LIVES!

1. A demon burned redcliffe.
2. It certainly didn't do it because Isolde tried to spend time with Connor.

[The Elder King]

1. A demon burned redcliffe.
2. It certainly didn't do it because Isolde tried to spend time with Connor.

No, but it's a result of Isolde hiding the truth. Granted, Loghain/Jowan had an hand in it, but it wouldn't have happened if Isolde wouldn't have hidden Connor's nature.

[drake heath]

Actually, it kinda did.

 

Because she got a witch to train him instead of sending him to the Circle.

[MisterJB]

1. A demon burned redcliffe.
2. It certainly didn't do it because Isolde tried to spend time with Connor.

If she had sent him to the Circle the very moment his powers manifested, none of that would have happened.

[Todd23]

If she had sent him to the Circle the very moment his powers manifested, none of that would have happened.

You're absolutely right. If she had sent him to the circle shortly before it got filled with demons, they could have avoided him being possessed! Before someone says she couldn't have known the circle would have been filled with demons, I'm going to say she couldn't have known the mage she hired was a blood mage, with forbidden tomes, sent to poison the arl.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You're absolutely right. If she had sent him to the circle shortly before it got filled with demons, they could have avoided him being possessed! Before someone says she couldn't have known the circle would have been filled with demons, I'm going to say she couldn't have known the mage she hired was a blood mage, with forbidden tomes, sent to poison the arl.

No, what they would have(as in definite) avoided was the deaths of dozens if not hundreds of Redcliffe citizens and castle staff. 

[Jaison1986]

No, what they would have(as in definite) avoided was the deaths of dozens if not hundreds of Redcliffe citizens and castle staff. 

 

That situation could also been avoided in many different ways. Had Isolde found an more competent teacher, Connor could have been taught enough not to fall pray to the talk of demons, or had Jowan not poisoned the Arl, Connor wouldn't see reason to turn to the demon for help and stay secretely an mage. After all Bethany had an good teacher, and Lothering was still standing before the blight hit.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That situation could also been avoided in many different ways. Had Isolde found an more competent teacher, Connor could have been taught enough not to fall pray to the talk of demons, or had Jowan not poisoned the Arl, Connor wouldn't see reason to turn to the demon for help and stay secretely an mage. After all Bethany had an good teacher, and Lothering was still standing before the blight hit.

Those are all 'could have been avoided'. Sending him to the Circle is a 'would have been avoided'. 

[MisterJB]

You're absolutely right. If she had sent him to the circle shortly before it got filled with demons, they could have avoided him being possessed! Before someone says she couldn't have known the circle would have been filled with demons, I'm going to say she couldn't have known the mage she hired was a blood mage, with forbidden tomes, sent to poison the arl.

 

How does Broken Circle change the fact that, had Connor been in the Circle, Redcliff would be fine and its people wouldn't have died?
 

And it doesn't really matter what type of mage she hired. There is a reason mages are isolated from other people.

[DKJaigen]

That connor should have been send to the circle is completely true. But his mothers fears are justified and so we can blame the current chantry led circle system.