532 réponses à ce sujet

[Inprea]

I've seen many threads about doing the opposite - and even the developers' interviews a bit

But I am actually interested in less popular choice among the DA fans - I want to help the Chantry to thrive and become stronger - at least while playing as one of my Inquisitors (the main one)

So, can I go paragon or do I have to be a renegade?

I don't see how helping the chantry could be called the paragon way. After all. It was the paragon way that spared the Rachnai Queen and let her go free to do whatever. It was the paragon way to cure the genophage. It was also the paragon way that spared the geth so they could return to the other geth. The chantry on the other hand has been rounding up and locking away mages for quite some time now while using them as weapons during war. That doesn't strike me as a paragon thing to do given the above examples of paragon behavior.

 

I'm one of the people that's more interested in what harm we can do to the chantry as I can't really think of a time when we could harm the chantry as an organization. We've been able to help them. Discovering the sacred ashes and providing a holy relic which helps support their claims but when have we really been able to hurt them especially to the same degree that we can hurt the mages? So far in two out of three games we've been able to mass murder the mages given that the player can kill off 2 of 15 circles.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

I hope we can support the Chantry, i see no problem in their treatment of mages, they are dangerous walking weapons & deserve to get locked up so they don't hurt anyone or try & create a new Tevinter.

[The Elder King]

Why should anyone support the Chantry? They're so inhumane!

As inhuman as every other group in the setting.
I'm not a big fan of the Chantry (neither a hater though) but they're not inhuman.

in Anders defiance it wasn't his idea....kind of O.o....

We don't know exactly who came up with the plan. Anders could've very well be the mastermind. In rivarly you can change his mind and he'd try to remove the bomb, but J/V decided to emulate Harbinger.

Ok lets go on topic, shall we? Now elaborate to me why I (As an anti Chantry and a staunch mage player) should support them after what they've done to the Mages? Can you give me some positive things that they've done? I can only thing of 1 thing, to their credit. Divine Justinia V in Asunder.

If you're anti-Chantry you've already formed an opinion based on the lore and the events of the game/other media, so we can't change your mind. Either DAI will portray the Chantry in a manner that would lead you to support it, or you have to roleplay a character with a different mindset than your own.

[RobRam10]

I hope we can support the Chantry, i see no problem in their treatment of mages, they are dangerous walking weapons & deserve to get locked up so they don't hurt anyone or try & create a new Tevinter.

Heresy!

[Nohvarr]

I don't see how helping the chantry could be called the paragon way. After all. It was the paragon way that spared the Rachnai Queen and let her go free to do whatever. It was the paragon way to cure the genophage. It was also the paragon way that spared the geth so they could return to the other geth. The chantry on the other hand has been rounding up and locking away mages for quite some time now while using them as weapons during war. That doesn't strike me as a paragon thing to do given the above examples of paragon behavior.

Because the Chantry isn't just locking away mages for fun, they do it because a mage can become a terrible danger to themselves and the people around them if not properly trained. Worse, people fear mages because of Tevinter and the long shadow they caste in peoples minds. So the Chantry has to protect mages from the public as well. A child gifted with magic could easily be target by a mob of fearful villagers which could end badly for all sides.

 

Now, that's not to say people within the Chantry have never used their teachings to justify heinous acts but you get that even with the mages. I mean Anders decided the best way to get mages their freedom was to kill a kindly old woman who was preventing Meredith from enacting an ROA. An act so bad that the Council of mages who wanted freedom denounced his actions and distanced themselves from what he did.

 

It should also be noted that the Chantry has tried to help mages. The Divine put in place a program that was meant to find away to remove a mages power (Something Bethany would be happy to do) without turning them tranquil....and it worked...sort of. The results were promising enough that the more reactionary Templars revolted in protest. It's a real shame too, since the Chantry was promoting research into an ancient issue that once resolve might've seen an end to the circles in due time. After all if you can simply take a mages powers away and leave them a normal person by all measures the circle becomes a lot less necessary.

 

Just think of the Circle as a thedas version of "Xaviers School for gifted Youngsters" taking in runaways, ensuring children with way too much power do not get out of hand and stopping those mage that are a threat to themselves and the world around them. They need to work out some bugs but the research I previously mentioned would've gone a long way to solving that issue.

[Lord Raijin]

Well, besides the services their allies the Templars do which are protect people from actually dangerous mages and magic-related things as well as protect mages from things like angry mobs:

 

Chantries deliver practical services to the community, caring for the sick and collecting alms for the poor. The Chantry provides hospitality to travelers and a public network of communications. Should an illiterate commoner need to send word to another town, the Chantry's educated priests write and send the letter for him.

To that respect I agree. Templar's serve a purpose to protect mundanes from dangerous mages, but what makes them so dangerous? The fact that they're constantly being hunted down by the Templars, and fleeing mages who escape from the Circle only makes them more dangerous considering the fact that they no longer want to be part of the circle, and want to be free, at all cost, even risking their lives for total freedom.

 

As far as the Chantry caring for the sick... I sure as heck didn't see any of that help coming from Kirkwall. All the priests were doing was asking for donations, no service was being done down in darktown... In fact a certain mage was caring for Kirkwall's sick people, not the Chantry. Even those in high politics were going to that mage for health related issues. Not bad for being an apostate mage on the run from the chantry.

 

No. How about you get the Right of Annulment invoked instead, mage scum.

 

You know what happens when mundanes like you opens their mouths to us mages, don't you? You get turned into a fat toad only to be put into a boiling pot to be cooked up for dinner.

 

http://youtu.be/PdYmiGe7gCs?t=1m

[Nohvarr]

To that respect I agree. Templar's serve a purpose to protect mundanes from dangerous mages, but what makes them so dangerous? The fact that they're constantly being hunted down by the Templars, and fleeing mages who escape from the Circle only makes them more dangerous considering the fact that they no longer want to be part of the circle, and want to be free, at all cost, even risking their lives for total freedom.

 

Sorry but history is not on your side, the Tevinter magister had freedom power and influence and they used it to rule with an iron fist. Now because of their actions people fear mages and treat them poorly in general. The chantry provides food, housing, an education and protection when they go out into the world on missions. Sadly, some of the protectors (Templars) have focused their energy on watching mages and not watching out for them. It's a problem the Chantry was working on (considering the Divines actions in Asunder) but not fast enough to prevent the more hotheaded mages and Templars from revolting.

[MisterJB]

Then subject him to a 'test' designed to break his mind and cause possession,

Nope, designed to see if he can resist possession which is only natural considering how he can be possessed and become a weapon of mass destruction.

 

 

prevent him from having any kind of family life,

 

Because the only type of family one can have is with those tied by blood.

Community, friendship, adoption, tutorship...all irrelevant.
Never mind that their family can visit the Circle if they wish.
 

 

and turn that tower into a (admittedly nice) prison for life,

Let's see: mages are allowed to travel as evidenced by Wynne, Rhys, Irving, Adrian, Finn, Ines, Bethany.

They are not allowed to just walk out of the Circle whenever they wish; which is understandable considering how they are a threat to the general population; but they are not kept in the Circle their whole lives without seeing the outside world. All that is required of them is to obey the rule and make Drakon's former palace their home (in Orlais, at least)

How is this an unreasonable demand considering we're dealing with people capable of melting others with a tought and/or becoming Abominations capable of killing entire groups of soldiers?

 

 

 in which he faces the sword of Damocles every day, his entire circle may get killed,

Only if the entire Circle does something to deserve it.

Meredith's mind was being influenced by Red Lyrium; her Annulment is not representative of the practice in general. Mr.Gaider has already said the Divine would have punished Meredith for it had she survived.

 

 

 he may be lobotomised at the whim of religious fanatics.

Those who pass ther Harrowing can't be made Tranquil; it's against the law.

If you'll claim that an unsactioned Rite can ocurr, then that is no different from an unsactioned beating or murder by the guardsmen.

 

 

 But if that is fair treatment then every Sister should face the same, forced possession then being made tranquil.

Why? For your vengeful whims?

The Sisters of the Chantry are not at risk of murdering hundreds of people by themselves.

 

 

Oh and the reason he is about to be lynched?  The Chantries anti-mage propaganda being forced fed to everyone from birth.

Or it could be because of the thousands of years of slavery under mages; the Abominations and the simple fact people get understandably queasy about living in the same area as someone who can control their minds to kill and eat their families and then set them on fire with a flick of the wrist.

 

What propaganda is this? "Mages enslaved mankind, they can kill you with their minds, they can be possessed by demons."

That's not propaganda, that's history and fact. Would you distort the history and the facts so as to prevent these lynchings?

If so, then you'd be the one guilty of propaganda.

 

[Inprea]

Because the Chantry isn't just locking away mages for fun, they do it because a mage can become a terrible danger to themselves and the people around them if not properly trained. Worse, people fear mages because of Tevinter and the long shadow they caste in peoples minds. So the Chantry has to protect mages from the public as well. A child gifted with magic could easily be target by a mob of fearful villagers which could end badly for all sides.

 

Now, that's not to say people within the Chantry have never used their teachings to justify heinous acts but you get that even with the mages. I mean Anders decided the best way to get mages their freedom was to kill a kindly old woman who was preventing Meredith from enacting an ROA. An act so bad that the Council of mages who wanted freedom denounced his actions and distanced themselves from what he did.

 

It should also be noted that the Chantry has tried to help mages. The Divine put in place a program that was meant to find away to remove a mages power (Something Bethany would be happy to do) without turning them tranquil....and it worked...sort of. The results were promising enough that the more reactionary Templars revolted in protest. It's a real shame too, since the Chantry was promoting research into an ancient issue that once resolve might've seen an end to the circles in due time. After all if you can simply take a mages powers away and leave them a normal person by all measures the circle becomes a lot less necessary.

 

Just think of the Circle as a thedas version of "Xaviers School for gifted Youngsters" taking in runaways, ensuring children with way too much power do not get out of hand and stopping those mage that are a threat to themselves and the world around them. They need to work out some bugs but the research I previously mentioned would've gone a long way to solving that issue.

Because the Krogan and their battle lust weren't dangers? Legion flat out says that the geth may decide that their original plan was the correct decision if you choose to rewrite the heretics and the Rachnia are known to pose a serious threat. A paragon still chooses to free the queen, cure the genophage and rewrite the geth giving them a second chance. It's even a paragon interrupt that prevents Samara from killing her daughter even though the temple meant to contain her has been broken and ardat yakshi are considered very dangerous. Mass effect paragons don't lock people up for the dangers that they might pose. The chantry on the other hand forbid the mages from helping free Ferelden from Orlais while sending mages to help the Orleation army. They also force the mages into a life or death battle against a demon or cut away a part of who they are. Then when a blight hits the templars only allow a very small number of mage volunteers to go help against the dark spawn. What the chantry does to mages is far more renegade then paragon.

 

The children you mention could just as easily be picked up by or sent to an organized circle not under chantry control.

 

I disagree with your view on Elthina. She was in a position of authority and yet did nothing while the number of mage dead and tranquil mounted. I consider her at least partly responsible due to her inaction. Anders was also acting as an individual. The chantry on the other hand was acting as an organization when they didn't permit mages to aid Ferelden, strip part of them away, kidnap their children and lock them away for a threat they might pose. This isn't the type of behavior you see with a paragon. Anders wasn't all bad either. He devoted years of his life to running a clinic curing the sick and injured with no thought for payment. So Anders spend years of his life helping the sick and the needy but deserves to die for a few renegade actions. I'd like to apply the same to the chantry.

 

According to your values that's helping mages. Some will agree and some will disagree. I sure don't agree. Magic is an extremely powerful tool that can be used for more then just destruction. Taking that tool from someone born with it would be doing considerable harm to them and come at great opportunity cost. You mention X-Men below. When the mutants were offered the chance to have their powers removed some jumped at it while others didn't and not all those that chose to keep their power were evil. Of the X-men I believe Rogue was the only one that wanted to give up her power with that whole touching you might kill you business.
 

Xavier didn't encourage his students to give up their power and I don't remember any of the students being forcefully taken from their families and made to attend even the more dangerous students. I would agree with the notion that the research you mention would be a good fix for those who don't want to be a mage or the responsibility that comes with it. If it was forced on a mage though it's just another renegade action.

 

Now before anyone tries to give a pragmatic response I'm talking about a Mass Effect paragon here. They gamble big, endure tougher battles then renegades and make less money. When have they ever been pragmatic?

[MisterJB]

Ok lets go on topic, shall we? Now elaborate to me why I (As an anti Chantry and a staunch mage player) should support them after what they've done to the Mages? Can you give me some positive things that they've done? I can only thing of 1 thing, to their credit. Divine Justinia V in Asunder.

 

What for? If that is really the only thing you can think then you are so ridiculously biased that talking to you is pointless.

Which is something that I already knew because I tried speaking to you before.

 

But sure, just to prove you wrong: The Chantry and the Templars staid behind to help evacuate Lothering when the Earl ran with Loghain from the Darkspawn horde.

I could mention the stabilizing effect of a common religion and it's influence on peace between nations but I suspect that'd go over your head.

[Nohvarr]

The children you mention could just as easily be picked up by or sent to an organized circle not under chantry control.

 

And yet no such circle exists? Why because whose going to pay for it? Who has the knowledge and ability to train the mages within in it? Who else can povide safety for the mages and the common people? I don't exactly see the various governments leaping at the chance (headache) of founding and running such an orgnaization.

 

I disagree with your view on Elthina. She was in a position of authority and yet did nothing while the number of mage dead and tranquil mounted.

 

Actually, she kept Meredith from enacting an ROA, but choose to stay out of the growing conflict because of people like Anders and Meredith, both of whom wanted a war and had little interest in peace.

 

 

Note that she begs the Divine not to intervene because she fears the destruction of the city.

I consider her at least partly responsible due to her inaction. Anders was also acting as an individual. The chantry on the other hand was acting as an organization when they didn't permit mages to aid Ferelden, strip part of them away, kidnap their children and lock them away for a threat they might pose. This isn't the type of behavior you see with a paragon. Anders wasn't all bad either. He devoted years of his life to running a clinic curing the sick and injured with no thought for payment. So Anders spend years of his life helping the sick and the needy but deserves to die for a few renegade actions. I'd like to apply the same to the chantry.

[MisterJB]

 

What in the Fade happened there?

First, we have an Eye, which is a symbol often associated with the Seekers of Truth scribbled on the walls and then the windows are barred.

Red Templar raid?

[Inprea]

And yet no such circle exists? Why because whose going to pay for it? Who has the knowledge and ability to train the mages within in it? Who else can povide safety for the mages and the common people? I don't exactly see the various governments leaping at the chance (headache) of founding and running such an orgnaization.

 

 

 

 

Actually, she kept Meredith from enacting an ROA, but choose to stay out of the growing conflict because of people like Anders and Meredith, both of whom wanted a war and had little interest in peace.

 

 

Note that she begs the Divine not to intervene because she fears the destruction of the city.

I consider her at least partly responsible due to her inaction. Anders was also acting as an individual. The chantry on the other hand was acting as an organization when they didn't permit mages to aid Ferelden, strip part of them away, kidnap their children and lock them away for a threat they might pose. This isn't the type of behavior you see with a paragon. Anders wasn't all bad either. He devoted years of his life to running a clinic curing the sick and injured with no thought for payment. So Anders spend years of his life helping the sick and the needy but deserves to die for a few renegade actions. I'd like to apply the same to the chantry.

That's an assumption on your part one I disagree with. I can just as easily assume that once allowed to conduct business freely the circles would become a self sustaining organization. They could provide healing, mercenary, enchanting and other services depending on the full scope of magic. This naturally depends on certain unknowns. How much water can your average mage summon to combat a shortage? Ferelden in the case of a mage boon was at least willing to try after all. The King didn't say the government would pay for the Circle only that it would be independent of the chantry. The chantry then did the very renegade action of refusing and ignoring the law of the land. Besides unless you can produce an official budget and expenditure list I'm not convinced the circle isn't self sustaining already unless the templars flat out prevent them from bringing in enough work.

 

Being paralyzed by fear to the point of inaction doesn't change the fact that she let Meredith continue abusing the mages and over step her position by preventing the nobility from choosing a new ruler. She chose just to set back and watch things continue to worsen.

[MisterJB]

Meredith wasn't abusing mages. She failed to prevent some abuses and was over stepping her authority regarding city management, that's all.

 

And do I really need to repeat why mages must have restrictions when participating in trade so they don't hijack the economy?

[The Elder King]

Meredith wasn't abusing mages. She failed to prevent some abuses and was over stepping her authority regarding city management, that's all.
 
And do I really need to repeat why mages must have restrictions when participating in trade so they don't hijack the economy?

I haven't played DA2 for a long time, but wasn't Meredith Tranquilizing/killing mages in Act 3? We can discuss if all those mages were innocent or not, but she could've potentially been abusing them.

[Bad King]

To answer the question relating to what good the Chantry/templars have done, you need only play DA:O:

 

1). Chantry representatives are present at Ostagar caring for and giving blessings to the soldiers (you even see some amongst the army right before the battle holding incense burners who would have perished in the darkspawn attack).

 

2). Templar soldiers taking part in the Battle of Ostagar.

 

3). At Lothering, long after the Arl and his merry men have fled, the only people keeping order and protecting the locals and refugees are the Chantry and their templars (offering shelter, food and protection against the bandits).

 

4). They keep a close eye on the mages at Lake Calenhad who live in a cleaner, more comfortable and more prosperous environment than the majority of Fereldans and who need to be scrutinised due to their susceptibility to demonic possession and due to the superstition and distrust that mundanes bear towards them.

 

5). When the tower is flooded with demons, the templars do not falter in their duty to stand guard and Greagoir acts reasonable when you speak to him at the end with Irving. If the mages die/are handed to the Chantry, then he lives up to his promise and leads templar soldiers against the archdemon at Denerim.

 

All in all, I'd say the Chantry and templars are pretty decent on the whole in this game, so I don't see why we shouldn't be able to support them in DA:I.

[MisterJB]

I haven't played DA2 for a long time, but wasn't Meredith Tranquilizing/killing mages in Act 3? We can discuss if all those mages were innocent or not, but she could've potentially been abusing them.

Unlike Alrik, she didn't Tranquilise anyone that had passed their Harrowing. And the mages she (potentially) executed; and I say potentially because she can be pleaded with for mercy; had all become Apostates.

It is, undoubtedly, an harsh way of ruling a Circle but she is not breaking the law in any way that we know of.

 

And if she could have been abusing mages, Orsino could have been smuggling non-mages into the Circle to experiment Quentin's methods on. We have as much evidence of one as of the other.

[Jaison1986]

To answer the question relating to what good the Chantry/templars have done, you need only play DA:O:

 

1). Chantry representatives are present at Ostagar caring for and giving blessings to the soldiers (you even see some amongst the army right before the battle holding incense burners who would have perished in the darkspawn attack).

 

2). Templar soldiers taking part in the Battle of Ostagar.

 

3). At Lothering, long after the Arl and his merry men have fled, the only people keeping order and protecting the locals and refugees are the Chantry and their templars (offering shelter, food and protection against the bandits).

 

4). They keep a close eye on the mages at Lake Calenhad who live in a cleaner, more comfortable and more prosperous environment than the majority of Fereldans and who need to be scrutinised due to their susceptibility to demonic possession and due to the superstition and distrust that mundanes bear towards them.

 

5). When the tower is flooded with demons, the templars do not falter in their duty to stand guard and Greagoir acts reasonable when you speak to him at the end with Irving. If the mages die/are handed to the Chantry, then he lives up to his promise and leads templar soldiers against the archdemon at Denerim.

 

All in all, I'd say the Chantry and templars are pretty decent on the whole in this game, so I don't see why we shouldn't be able to support them in DA:I.

 

I'm sure it's very confortable for the mages to live in constant paranoia and fear that the templars wll strike you down or make you tranquil for the slightest mistake.

Strop sugar coating them. You think an couple of good deeds excuse their mistakes and wrong doings? Defying Grey warden authority to capture an mage? Tortute and murder dalish elfs for holding apostates? Send an death squad to threanten and murder civilians for trying to help mages? Ignoring abuses comitted by members from their own order? Slaugthering civilians for refusing to worship the maker? I think it's way past time someone puts them out of their misery.

[MisterJB]

I'm sure it's very confortable for the mages to live in constant paranoia and fear that the templars wll strike you down or make you tranquil for the slightest mistake.

 

You can't be made Tranquil after you've passed the Harrowing and the Rite has to be approved by the First Enchanter to begin with.

Stop resorting to hyperbole.

 

 

 Slaugthering civilians for refusing to worship the maker?

Never happened.

[Jaison1986]

You can't be made Tranquil after you've passed the Harrowing and the Rite has to be approved by the First Enchanter to begin with.

Stop resorting to hyperbole.

 

 

Never happened.

 

That's not what I saw in Kirkwall. Grace group have many mages made tranquil  at random as simple punishment. Harrowed or not.

 

Yeah, right, never happened. All of those people in Rivain must have combusted spontaneously, my mistake.

[MisterJB]

That's not what I saw in Kirkwall. Grace group have many mages made tranquil  at random as simple punishment. Harrowed or not.

 

No, Grace's group had members executed because they set Starkhaven's Circle on fire, followed a blood mage and were Apostates.

Those were not "sligthest mistakes"
 

 

Yeah, right, never happened. All of those people in Rivain must have combusted spontaneously, my mistake.

1-If they were Qunari, then they were not citizens.

2- That was in the aftermath of a war where Qunari lobotomized any Andrastean that refused to convert to the Qun. Understandanly, Thedosians were angry.

3-Those Qunari that refused to leave mainland Thedas were in direct breach of the Lloymerrin Accords that dictated their presence within the Continent was forbidden therefore, they qualify as an enemy force within foreign territories.

4-Rivaini followers of the Old Ways also participated in those purges and they don't worship the Maker thereby proving that it was about Qunari breaking the accords and remaining within their nation rather than, specifically, worship of the Maker.

5-All Qunari know how to fight and are expected to be called upon to conquer the "Bas" at any given moment, thus lending credency to the fears of the people of Rivain.
 

[The Elder King]

Unlike Alrik, she didn't Tranquilise anyone that had passed their Harrowing. And the mages she (potentially) executed; and I say potentially because she can be pleaded with for mercy; had all become Apostates.
It is, undoubtedly, an harsh way of ruling a Circle but she is not breaking the law in any way that we know of.
 
And if she could have been abusing mages, Orsino could have been smuggling non-mages into the Circle to experiment Quentin's methods on. We have as much evidence of one as of the other.

As I said, I didn't recall well what she did in Act 3. Though the Starkhaven mages that are possibly tranquilized might've been Harrowed already.

[Inprea]

Meredith wasn't abusing mages. She failed to prevent some abuses and was over stepping her authority regarding city management, that's all.

 

And do I really need to repeat why mages must have restrictions when participating in trade so they don't hijack the economy?

You can feel free to believe that. I on the other hand hold a leader responsible for their subordinates. There is also the templar kill squads that went around the city murdering people who helped mages and the fact that Thrask chose to rebel against Meredith. Then there is the behavior of Meredith's cronies. The mages not being able to speak to civilians for fear of being beaten and the increasing number of tranquil mages. This is plenty of evidence of abuse for me.

 

You've been spouting your theory long enough that I'm sure most have seen it I know I have. I consider it bull crap. If mages had the natural advantage you're constantly implying then the best weapons and armor in all of Thedas would be rolling out of the Imperium and their armies would be nearly unstoppable. Some people have mentioned a comic that features a mage that could create items that could cut through dwarven quality armor with ease. As far as I'm concerned she effectively won the lottery and stumbled upon some secret. Otherwise the wrest of Thedas had best be either thanking the Qunari or the Imperium for keeping the other busy.

[Captain_Harkness]

No, Grace's group had members executed because they set Starkhaven's Circle on fire, followed a blood mage and were Apostates.

Those were not "sligthest mistakes"
 

 

1-If they were Qunari, then they were not citizens.

2- That was in the aftermath of a war where Qunari lobotomized any Andrastean that refused to convert to the Qun. Understandanly, Thedosians were angry.

3-Those Qunari that refused to leave mainland Thedas were in direct breach of the Lloymerrin Accords that dictated their presence within the Continent was forbidden therefore, they qualify as an enemy force within foreign territories.

4-Rivaini followers of the Old Ways also participated in those purges and they don't worship the Maker thereby proving that it was about Qunari breaking the accords and remaining within their nation rather than, specifically, worship of the Maker.

5-All Qunari know how to fight and are expected to be called upon to conquer the "Bas" at any given moment, thus lending credency to the fears of the people of Rivain.
 

You claim others have a anti chantry mindset but you are calling everything good said about the chantry and everything bad a lie. Meredith was paranoid and authorized mages to be made tranquil. As they were full fledged mages by definition they have passed the harrowing. The people in Rivain you claim count as foreign soldiers. They were citizens that converted to the qun when the Qunari invaded but they were by the laws of the land still Rivaini citizens after the Qunari were driven out. "Rivain Chantry and nationalist forces, unable to convert its people back to the worship of the Maker, tried a purge by the sword, slaughtering countless unarmed people and burying them in mass graves." It was mass murder pure and simple. O and take a look at this.

The Annulment at Dairsmuid

When we heard of the injustices against our fellow mages at the White Spire, the Circle of Magi in Val Royeux, I feared what was to come. Our Circle at Dairsmuid is small and isolated; it exists largely as a facade to appease the Chantry.

When the other Circle rose up, the Chantry sent Seekers across the bay from Ayesleigh to investigate. They found us mixing freely with our families, training female mages in the traditions of the seers, and denounced us as apostates. Perhaps they thought we were spineless robes who could be intimidated with a little bloodshed. Before I was First Enchanter, I was the daughter of Captain Revaud, of the Felicisima Armada. I know how to plan a battle.

They brought with them a small army of templars. We fought. And we might have won. But they invoked the Right of Annulment, with all the unrelenting brutality that followed. It is their right to put screaming apprentices to the sword, burn our "tainted" libraries, crush irreplaceable artifacts under their heels, tear down the very walls of our home. No mage has the right to disagree.

We of the Dairsmuid Circle wait now, behind barricades. I have sent word to our brother and sister mages of this outrage. When they break through, we will not die alone.

--Final journal entry of First Enchanter Rivella, slain in Dairsmuid, 9:40 Dragon

Straight from the wiki. This shows that mages can interact with the public and thier families without becoming abominations or murdering willy nilly as you seem to expect. In fact I would say it proves just how responsible they can be if you give them the choice. As soon as this is discovered though, the chantry marches in the troops and attempts to put them to the sword. I sense a pattern

 

The chantry shall be judged and they shall be found wanting

[MisterJB]

You can feel free to believe that. I on the other hand hold a leader responsible for their subordinates. There is also the templar kill squads that went around the city murdering people who helped mages and the fact that Thrask chose to rebel against Meredith. Then there is the behavior of Meredith's cronies. The mages not being able to speak to civilians for fear of being beaten and the increasing number of tranquil mages. This is plenty of evidence of abuse for me.

Holding a leader responsible for abuses of his subordinates is not the same as the leader being abusive himself.

In fact, I mentioned that Meredith failed to prevent abuses by Templars like Karras in the post you're answering to. None of those things you're pointed out are evidence of abuses against mages perpretated by Meredith.

 

You've been spouting your theory long enough that I'm sure most have seen it I know I have. I consider it bull crap. If mages had the natural advantage you're constantly implying

It's not a theory. It's an undeniable fact that magic is a natural advantage.

 

 

If mages had the natural advantage you're constantly implying then the best weapons and armor in all of Thedas would be rolling out of the Imperium and their armies would be nearly unstoppable.

Southern Thedas has mages too, you know?

Military dominance is different from economical and political dominance due to lack of restrictions on mages which is what I've been warning against.

 

 

Some people have mentioned a comic that features a mage that could create items that could cut through dwarven quality armor with ease. As far as I'm concerned she effectively won the lottery and stumbled upon some secret.

Considering that the comic never once gives that impression, I'm surprised you reached that conclusion.

 

 

Otherwise the wrest of Thedas had best be either thanking the Qunari or the Imperium for keeping the other busy.

They are.