131 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Why is Fenris not a good person again?

Sure, he does not believe in unregulated mages but he sends tips to the city guard about slavers holled up in Kirkwall and just generally tries to live his life like any normal person.

[Vapaa]

"I can't actually debate your point, so I'm going to quibble over synonyms."

You claimed the term "terrorism" is misused, I found a definition, and you started talking about something that’s not in the definition...and that’s me who can’t debate ?

Terrorism has nothing to do with legitimacy, period.

Was his act illegal ? Yes it was, nobody backed him
Was it violent ? Yes it was
Was it to pursue political goals ? Yes it was

Then it’s terrorism, you can argue about how legitimate it was, the fact remains that it’s terrorism

[Mockingword]

Alistair? The same judgemental ****** who refuses responsability in redcliff and then chews you out because you made a choice that could make him look bad in front of eamon? The same guy who preaches about duty all the time and then walks away from the blight if you refuse to kill a man who no longer poses a threat? Alright then.

Hahahahaha "This severely unhinged man who hired assassins to kill me is clearly no longer a threat! I mean, I beat him in single combat! What's he gonna do? Poison me? Smother me in my sleep?"

[Maclimes]

"I'm going to quibble over synonyms."

 

That's the theme of this thread, apparently. :/

[Jawzzus]

I was actually hoping to see some speculation on who could be a jerk in DAI, and insteads its involved into a massive argument over Anders and Fenris..shame

[Mockingword]

You claimed the term "terrorism" is misused, I found a definition, and you started talking about something that’s not in the definition...and that’s me who can’t debate ?

Terrorism has nothing to do with legitimacy, period.

Was his act illegal ? Yes it was, nobody backed him
Was it violent ? Yes it was
Was it to pursue political goals ? Yes it was

Then it’s terrorism, you can argue about how legitimate it was, the fact remains that it’s terrorism

Bully for you, you found one definition. There are literally thousands. Every country has different laws about what constitutes terrorism.

 

But the definition isn't what makes it meaningless. What makes it meaningless is that people apply it sloppily and use it to discourage critical thought about the actual morality of an action, which is what I said in the first place.

 

And instead of engaging in critical thought about the morality of the action, your knee jerk reaction was "NO YOU'RE WRONG ABOUT TERRORISM BECAUSE OXFORD DICTIONARY". Which just proves my point.

 

Also, your criteria for what makes an action "illegal" is just... so bad. Anders could have the support of the Circle and all the peasantry and his actions would still be "illegal" because they are against Chantry law. The only support that can legitimize his actions is Chantry support, and the Chantry isn't going to support an attack on itself, because the Chantry would never admit to being at fault in the first place.

 

No, you can't argue about how legitimate terrorism is. Terrorism is illegitimate by definition.

[Gileadan]

I don't mind a little grey in my companions, it would probably get a bit boring if everything was white.

 

But romanceable or not... I hope that the entire party, on average, will be more mentally and emotionally stable than DA2's bunch. The plot of Inquisition will probably feel more urgent (whether supported by gameplay mechanics or not) than that of DA2, and I really don't want to go around and fix everyone's "issues" in the field. When there's so much at stake as there seems to be in DA:I, you can't really afford bringing a bunch of basket cases along.

[daveliam]

 

Also, my entire argument is that arguing on a basis of who has "authority" is ****** stupid. So, congrats on missing the point, I guess?

 

Like, I'm sure you of all people are aware that simply being in a position of "authority" has no actual bearing on the entirely subjective morality of one's position.

 

Well congrats to you for being so edgy that you think that "authority is ****** stupid".   Just because  you think authority is stupid doesn't mean that it takes any of that power away from them.

 

Why are you insisting on conflating terrorism with morality.  Morality is subjective.  Both sides of a conflict think they are correct.  From each perspective the other side is wrong.  Terrorism describes an act of violence made without official authority on behalf of a group/perspective for political purposes.  It's exactly what Anders did.  Whether I agree with his beliefs or actions, it's still what he did.  He says that he did for the mage cause.  He's acting on unofficial benefit for the mages for political reasons.

[Enigmatick]

I was actually hoping to see some speculation on who could be a jerk in DAI, and insteads its involved into a massive argument over Anders and Fenris..shame

Nah this is more or less just one guy from ye old forums still getting angry that people choose to call Anders what he is. That said I don't really feel the characters are mostly "jerks" you're not really going to get the squeaky clean people in your company considering what you do in these games.

[Maclimes]

Nah this is more or less just one guy from ye old forums still getting angry that people choose to call Anders what he is. That said I don't really feel the characters are mostly "jerks" you're not really going to get the squeaky clean people in your company considering what you do in these games.

 

No, I agree with you. My choice of words was very poor. It doesn't seem to matter though, since this thread got derailed so hard. 

[Enigmatick]

Well congrats to you for being so edgy that you think that "authority is ****** stupid".   Just because  you think authority is stupid doesn't mean that it takes any of that power away from them.

 

Why are you insisting on conflating terrorism with morality.  Morality is subjective.  Both sides of a conflict think they are correct.  From each perspective the other side is wrong.  Terrorism describes an act of violence made without official authority on behalf of a group/perspective for political purposes.  It's exactly what Anders did.  Whether I agree with his beliefs or actions, it's still what he did.  He says that he did for the mage cause.  He's acting on unofficial benefit for the mages for political reasons.

I suggest you stop bothering, he'll always agree what he did because he self inserts his "struggle" with the mage conflict in game and because of this nothing Anders does will be morally wrong because "lolsoopressed". I apologize if the ends up being a double post.

[wolfhowwl]

as his sister said he was not and he wanted it...at least before his memory was erased and Qunari "Fog Warriors" education but i still not believe in many bullsh*t what he was talking and we have much proofs that he was lied

 

"he wanted it"

 

Disgusting.

[naddaya]

Hahahahaha "This severely unhinged man who hired assassins to kill me is clearly no longer a threat! I mean, I beat him in single combat! What's he gonna do? Poison me? Smother me in my sleep?"

Except that Loghain isn't a madman. He had understood his mistakes by then. There are as many political reasons for keeping him alive as for killing him.
Alistair didn't want to kill him because he saw him as dangerous, he wanted to kill him for revenge. Understable, but don't paint him as a shiny knight who shits cuddly bunnies.

[Enigmatick]

"he wanted it"

 

Disgusting.

I think that was in reference to him wanting the Lyrium powers wasn't it?

[Mockingword]

Well congrats to you for being so edgy that you think that "authority is ****** stupid".   Just because  you think authority is stupid doesn't mean that it takes any of that power away from them.

Okay, that's... irrelevant.

 

 

Why are you insisting on conflating terrorism with morality. 

Um, I'm not doing that, I'm the one telling other people to stop doing that.

 

That's actually you, and everyone else who says that the reason they hate Anders is because he's a "terrorist". Your view of him as a terrorist is why you dislike him and his actions, and you said as much before. In your mind, and in the mind of everyone who willfully throws this word around, "terrorism" is automatically "wrong", by virtue of being terrorism.

 

 

Morality is subjective.  Both sides of a conflict think they are correct.  From each perspective the other side is wrong.  Terrorism describes an act of violence made without official authority on behalf of a group/perspective for political purposes.  It's exactly what Anders did.  Whether I agree with his beliefs or actions, it's still what he did.  He says that he did for the mage cause.  He's acting on unofficial benefit for the mages for political reasons.

For crying out loud. I'm not even slightly concerned about whether or not what Anders did counts as terrorism. I do not care. Your insistence that yes, it is terrorism, is completely irrelevant to what I'm actually saying.

[naddaya]

I think that was in reference to him wanting the Lyrium powers wasn't it?

It sounded like he was talking about sexing danarius to me.

[Mockingword]

Except that Loghain isn't a madman. He had understood his mistakes by then. There are as many political reasons for keeping him alive as for killing him.
Alistair didn't want to kill him because he saw him as dangerous, he wanted to kill him for revenge. Understable, but don't paint him as a shiny knight who shits cuddly bunnies.

Yeah, I don't buy that men magically become sane after you beat them in single combat.

 

If someone I knew sold dozens of people into slavery, I'd want them dead too.

[EkhidnaDrakaina]

It sounded like he was talking about sexing danarius to me.

I read it that way too, from the "Danarius sl*t" post he wrote prior thus I explained what Varania meant.

[AresKeith]

For crying out loud. I'm not even slightly concerned about whether or not what Anders did counts as terrorism. I do not care. Your insistence that yes, it is terrorism, is completely irrelevant to what I'm actually saying.

 

For someone who doesn't care, you're sure making a big deal over it

[Mockingword]

For someone who doesn't care, you're sure making a big deal over it

I get frustrated when people willfully misunderstand my arguments.

 

Like you're doing. Right now.

[daveliam]

Um, I'm not doing that, I'm the one telling other people to stop doing that.

 

That's actually you, and everyone else who says that the reason they hate Anders is because he's a "terrorist". Your view of him as a terrorist is why you dislike him and his actions, and you said as much before. In your mind, and in the mind of everyone who willfully throws this word around, "terrorism" is automatically "wrong", by virtue of being terrorism.

 

You cannot tell me why I dislike someone.  You can use hyperbole when talking about your own thoughts, but don't try to speak for me.

 

 

For crying out loud. I'm not even slightly concerned about whether or not what Anders did counts as terrorism. I do not care. Your insistence that yes, it is terrorism, is completely irrelevant to what I'm actually saying.

 

Then why are you arguing semantics?  Actions speak WAY louder than words.

 

And with that, I'm done with you.

[Mockingword]

Whatever man, you didn't actually read any of my posts, we weren't even in the same argument.

[AresKeith]

Pfft.

 

If that's your idea of "innocent", I guess.

 

"Terrorism" is such a meaningless term now. People just slap it on to any act they dislike, because the emotional weight of it discourages any genuine debate about the morality of the action.

 

Well considering not all priests are mage hating, elf hating bigots then yes I would call them innocent 

[naddaya]

Yeah, I don't buy that men magically become sane after you beat them in single combat.

If someone I knew sold dozens of people into slavery, I'd want them dead too.

He was never insane to begin with, just ruthless, frustrated and blinded by his own self-righteousness. That's not the point though. Alistair wants his head because of Duncan.

[Asdrubael Vect]

According to Varania, Fenris submitted to the Lyrium Ritual in exchange for the freedom of his family. This is what he wanted and competed for, not the abuse and mistreatment that came with it. When his memory was wiped, he had forgotten the deal he had made, where he came from, and the reason for all of it. When left with the Fog Warriors, their way of life began to make him ponder and question his own. Especially once after Danarius made him kill them.

According to Varania Fenris(who as we know was a good warrior-soldier and officially "one of the best swordsman in Imperium") kills for tattoo what he wanted....and after he won the prize tobe Danarius personal lover & supersoldier/bodyguard(yeah a slave is a "very good soldiers and every magisters/lords would wanted to make them as supersoldiers and anyone would hire a dozens of mercenarys and send personal aprentice to catch a slave") he simply send them(and as we can perfectly understand his mage sister Varania) away from Seheron and himself

 

and about "freedom"...we does not have any proofs that Varania and her mother was a slaves(even hadrian surprised about Varania slavery and said that she is not) and not a servants in Danarius mansion(where Fenris plays with Varania in garden) on Seheron and Danarius(who never call Fenris as slave) call Varania as a citizen of Imperum and liberati are not citizens

 

about of this "Fog Warriors" Fenris said about "Qun victory" to Arishoc and i am sure that Fenris kills a Qunari spyes who educate him and even if they was a real Fog Warriors he kills them not a Danarius and Fenris can prevent it at the beginning....and i am never believe in one of his many bullshit about "i was lefted on Seheron when i put enjured Danarius on evacuation ship"

 

and Fenris can perfectly read and wrote a letter for mercenarys who was hired by Danarius "who was try to kill him" and as Hawke or some of his companions notice Fenris is a "surprisingly quickly" learn how to read

 

Fenris is soo pathetic...he is thinking only about yourself hypocritical  lie and he is whine about mostly everything, the Orlais Chantry must hire him for their propoganda bullsh*t)))

 

and yeah lirium have a bad effect for the non-mages minds as we know with Templars