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[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Not quite sure which DA forum this belongs in, so I'll put it in the one with most views.

 

It is said in both DA games that blood powers blood-magic spells, and possession is a risk involved because said spells tear the veil more than conventional ones. However, when NPCs talk about it -- particularly companions in DA2 -- it sounds as though demons are what really power the spells.

 

 

Relevant quotes --

 

Bethany (on Merrill's first witnessed use of blood-magic): "I felt the Veil shift. You called something here. Are you insane?"

Merrill: "(....) The spirit helped us, didn't it?"

 

Alain (on Decimus, known blood-mage): "There must be a demon working through him. No normal man would profane the dead like this." (lol necromage-Inquisitor).

 

Anders: "To use blood magic you must look a demon in the eye and accept his offer. I just figured some would say 'no.' For aesthetic reasons, if nothing else."

 

^ re: "aesthetic reasons" ... abominations are one thing, but even the faces of "regular" blood-mages such as Quentin, Hadriana, Danarius, and Tarohne all looked pretty... decadent. If true, it would also explain why those other blood-mages alongside Tron-y in "Enemies Among Us" cover their faces with masks.

 

Anders (on Hadriana's use of blood-magic): ~ At this point there's nothing human left inside.

 

Aveline (on Grace): ~ She'll never admit it, but she is just as corrupted.

Grace: "I swear to you, I have had no truck with demons."

 

 

Again, it's consistently being talked about like demons are the true power behind the spells, not blood.

 

Also, the writers have said that it's hard to exemplify the dangers of being a mage while allowing players to play as one, and have since removed the Blood Magic specialization tree altogether.

 

If this is not just a matter of narrative inconsistency, then I am led to conclude that -- just as elemental spells draw the power of fire and ice within the Fade -- blood-magic draws from its inhabitants (namely demons). Everything in the Fade is an idea, and spirits are just self-aware manifestations of these ideas. So, it's not really blood-magic, it's more like demon- or demonic-magic.

 

Or am I missing something?

[TCBC_Freak]

I think you're right for the most part, but I believe it is called blood magic because a non-mage just sees someone cutting themselves of worse and then having more power. Its kind of like a trade off, your blood is what you give so the demon gives you more power, so blood magic as a name still works; but it is, as you say, a misnomer. It conjures images of mages using blood as power and not giving blood for power.

[OctagonalSquare]

I always thought the demon gave you the ability, but you were on your own from then on.

 

However, if the demon is the real power at work, it would explain why it makes you more susceptible to possession as well as why it weakens the Veil so much.

[Eveangaline]

Anders asks merrill if the first time she used it was just by accident, by cutting herself and using the power, so it might make sense that using blood to power magic is more likely to attract demons and so the two are entwined.

[TheForgottenOne]

Is cutting yourself alone enough to attract a demon (for the first time) or should some ritual be performed beforehand involving making a deal with the demon involved (possibly interacting with it in the Fade) to be able to use blood magic?

Or is it equivalent to performing a simple fire or healing spell but only with wrist slashing?

[Hellion Rex]

Blood magic is not necessarily powered by demons, though it certainly can be used to gain the help of or control a demon. However, we do have examples of people using blood magic that doesn't utilize demonic energies. For example, Jowan's blood spell in the Magi Origin. There was no demon involved in that act, Jowan learned blood magic from a book.

[Maria Caliban]

Part of the problem is that 'blood magic' refers to more than one thing.

Any mage can use blood to power a spell, that's one type of blood magic and you don't need any special teaching. Blood magic is also a school like Creation and Primal that has specific spells, and that school has to be learned from a demon.

The other part of the problem is that sometimes the game seems to forget this as well. The serial killer who patched women together was probably using blood to power his spells, but everything he was doing was part of the Spirit school of magic.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Blood magic is powered by the life energy in blood. Demons have passed knowledge of this power onto the world and it's inhabitants. The people then taught each other how to use it and also recorded the necessary information in written form.

 

So as a result, blood magic can be learned from a book, another blood mage, or from a demon.

 

Blood magic isn't demon power. No demon in any of the games ever mentions blood mages drawing power from them. No blood mage ever mentions drawing power from demons. Mages draw power from the Fade but not the spirits themselves. A mage may call on a spirit to perform a particular task as Merrill did or straight up summon them but there's no energy siphoning.

 

Many characters in the game are ignorant of blood magic and are likely to regurgitate whatever Chantry garbage has been fed to them.

[Nightdragon8]

Wait they took out Blood magic speicalization just ebcause they couldn't show the dangers?? Why not use a mechanic thats hidden from the player or maybe visable something like a heat bar for weapons? And the rate at which the bar climbs depends how thin the viel is at the time. (tho I guess a system like this with accutal veil tares would make it so using it next to a tare would be near suicide.

 

But they can easily make some sort of atractive to a demons. And if you "attract" a demon have some sort of event that takes place "In the mind" with a demon trying to take over. And depening on the demon maybe a sort of timed puzzle things. With varing levels of diffulcult, Where these puzzles represent you "Fortifing your will" And there will be 2 was to go about it, Alot of easy ones, a few medium ones, and like 2 hard ones. Each giving you a fort bonus.  All the while them tauting you, trying to depress you, etc. And each different type of demon, has different effects.

 

Like the pride daemon make it so if you complete the hard puzzles they give alittle less. Rage demons make it hard to see (seeing red) also, Sloth makes you "run aroudn" slower in your mind" while I can't really think of anything for Desiar demons. Could have Illiusion walls and maybe a small maze, where they have dead ends with your compaions and stuff telling you exactly what you want to hear.

 

Either that or do s tower defense sort of minigame.

 

Granted thats a TON of work for only 'blood mages' to deal with, (could do it for normal mages as well but have it a event in the middle of the game)

[Ymirr]

Got the impression that demons don't power it, the blood does that fine on it's own. But the demons possess the knowledge to use it, and how to become better at it.

[Nightdragon8]

From what I 'understand' about it is that, it uses the blood as the mana soruce. And normal Templar ablities don't have a way to block it.

 

Basicly, when mages use magic they show up as a light in the fade. And the demons get attracted to it, depending on the intesity and problaly a dozen other factors, some demons will try to invade the mage.

 

However bloodmagic is a seriously bright light, in a dark place, and the amount of power is something they want and will greedly try to take over and use.

[dragonflight288]

Blood can be used to replace mana, or amplify the effects of existing spells. Demons and Spirits being summoned is actually the realm of the school of spirit. It's right in the codex entry on the school of spirit, but it's constantly mistaken for blood magic, again per the codex. 

 

The way I see it, nearly all sources outside of Tevinter for learning how to use blood magic has been destroyed, so demons are the most common, and easiest way to learn. And that involves making a deal of some kind, usually, and thus the demons or spirits can work through the mage, especially if some small part of the demon is within them. 

 

Part of the problem is that the Chantry has long blurred the line between what is blood magic and what is not so so many things actually qualify when they otherwise wouldn't. For example, Morrigan is called a Maleficar by Wynne and Alistair in Origins despite the fact that she's not a blood mage, but a shapeshifter, and she's called maleficar because she knows and practices a way of magic that is not sanctioned by the Circle's. The codex on apostates also makes it clear.

 

Finn in Witch Hunt also says that using Ariane's blood to find the Lights of Arlathan is a grey area and asks the Warden to keep it secret because there are those who would call it blood magic and thus make him a blood mage for his use of a spell that isn't powered by blood, but has blood merely as a component of it. 

 

Tome of the Mortal Vessel's item description says that many (but doesn't specify who that many is) actually ban anatomical studies because it's seen as blood magic. 

 

Heck the phylacteries used by the templars is also a form of blood magic, as had been confirmed by the devs and the templar Evangeline in Asunder. 

 

There are so many forms of blood magic that it's nearly impossible to categorize them effectively, and then say all blood magic is bad when, under the broad generalization as I see in the in-game universe, is an oxymoron because the utility is so broad.

[Altima Darkspells]

Wait they took out Blood magic speicalization just ebcause they couldn't show the dangers?? Why not use a mechanic thats hidden from the player or maybe visable something like a heat bar for weapons? And the rate at which the bar climbs depends how thin the viel is at the time. (tho I guess a system like this with accutal veil tares would make it so using it next to a tare would be near suicide.

It's possible that Blood Magic will be a school of magic that any mage can put points in. Or Blood Mage will be rolled into the "necromancer" sub-class. Remember, Necromancer is a bit of a misnomer since there are no traditional undead in Thedas. The undead zombies and skeletons we see are low level demons (hunger and rage, usually) that inhabit the corpses of beings. And we all know that people who summon demons love them their blood magic.

Blood magic itself doesn't make anyone evil, but it does provide a ton of power and open up a crap-ton of options for abuse. Blood mages could influence or outright control monarchs (hopefully Morrigan isn't doing this to Celene). Blood Magic is insanely powerful--Jowan was able to overwhelm a ton of people being nothing more than an apprentice, and DA2 shows us what kind of mischief a non-apprentice blood mage can get up to. Perhaps, worst of all, nothing says a Blood Mage has to use their own blood for their magic, which led to some pretty spectacular excesses back in Tevinter's heyday (one of which created the darkspawn, the other permanently weakened the Fade in Kirkwall enough that even average citizens are in danger of going abomination).

[dragonflight288]

It's possible that Blood Magic will be a school of magic that any mage can put points in. Or Blood Mage will be rolled into the "necromancer" sub-class. Remember, Necromancer is a bit of a misnomer since there are no traditional undead in Thedas. The undead zombies and skeletons we see are low level demons (hunger and rage, usually) that inhabit the corpses of beings. And we all know that people who summon demons love them their blood magic.
 

 

What about my Amell Warden who loved to animate dead but was a shapeshifter and a Spirit Healer? lol 

[mikeymoonshine]

Animate dead is "spirit school" magic. Which, I guess, is necromancy, but probably summoning minor spirits to inhabit corpses. Something like wisps, I bet.

 

Not that that's any better really. Spirits don't belong here. It's not their planet and they need to GTFO. Anders proved that to me. He's no better than a bloodmage. In retrospect, I wish I could've criticized Wynne too. Morrigan is a better mage than she'd ever be, for the fact that she's so dismissive of spirits (demon or not).

 

But I'm going on a tangent now, so I'll cut it short.

 

Wynne grew up hearing spirits of the fade and she didn't choose to become an abomination. She also doesn't initially treat that fact as a good thing, she is wary of what she is and worried about what it means for her. 

 

Morrigan doesn't seem to be dismissive of spirits out of a fear of the dangers they pose and she doesn't seem to have a problem with blood magic or the warden dealing with spirits. 

[mikeymoonshine]

Not fear. I didn't say that. She's just very, very independent. Which is good, for a mage, I think. If she had a "stat", it'd be like +50 mental resistance. Heh

 

Ofc she is very resistant and can't really be manipulated by anyone other than Flemeth perhaps. 

 

 

I just don't agree that Wynne is all that naive when it comes to spirits, maybe a little bit idealistic but not in a bad Anders kind of way.  

[pallascedar]

Part of the problem is that 'blood magic' refers to more than one thing.

Any mage can use blood to power a spell, that's one type of blood magic and you don't need any special teaching. Blood magic is also a school like Creation and Primal that has specific spells, and that school has to be learned from a demon.

The other part of the problem is that sometimes the game seems to forget this as well. The serial killer who patched women together was probably using blood to power his spells, but everything he was doing was part of the Spirit school of magic.

 

To be fair, I don't think the Chantry really seperates them too much either. I think the main reason they're connected is that it takes a lot of energy to summon and control the power of spirits. Because very few mages have access to endless amounts of lyrium, most of these mages who work with demons are blood mages.