78 réponses à ce sujet

[Ammonite]

It's about showing the darker side of humanity, something that GRRM and CDProjekt Red aren't afraid to do unlike Bioware who plays it safe because political correctness and all that.

Why is it neccessarily because of political correctness though? Imo it would also be a problem of realism, or allocating resources. As in making your other companions realistically react to the fact they're now traveling with a walking grotesque that used to be a comrade in arms. And how far could you really go with that until someone goes "f*** it, I'm not waiting around for that to happen to me" and just plain decides to ambush you in the night, tie or lock you up, and then only bring out your cage when they need that glowy hand?

[TKavatar]

Why is it neccessarily because of political correctness though? Imo it would also be a problem of realism, or allocating resources. As in making your other companions realistically react to the fact they're now traveling with a walking grotesque that used to be a comrade in arms. And how far could you really go with that until someone goes "f*** it, I'm not waiting around for that to happen to me" and just plain decides to ambush you in the night, tie or lock you up, and then only bring out your cage when they need that glowy hand?

A problem of realism? Thedas is based off the medevial era when they were practically inventing new ways of torturing people every day, like the Iron Maiden. Torture racks also exist in DA, Howe and the Crows used them in DAO.

And yes, it might be due to lack of resources. But I doubt that, the devs have flat out stated that there will be no torture in the game, period.

As for making companions react, it's not like you haven't done morally grey/evil things before in previous games. I'd say some might leave you or even try to kill you like Leliana and Wynne did when you defile the Sacred Ashes, and you would just get a hit in approval from others. Varric will definitely not like it. The rest of the Inquisition might be more apprehensive and wary of you. Would they lock you up? I don't think so, you're the only person who can close the tears and they will not want to make an enemy out of you.

After all, you can sell Fenris back to Danarius (which is basically the same as torturing him, you just condemned him to a life of sexual abuse and servitude) and all you got in return was about 15 rivalry points from everyone but Anders.

[Exaltation]

I would love to kill Cullen,and then resurrect him,and then kill him again,would be a nice target practice to test spells.

[Treacherous J Slither]

I would like the option to role play as a dark ages Jack"WHO ARE YOU WORKING FOR? GIVE ME A NAME!!!"Bauer!

 

24 is back btw. Just in case ya'll didn't know.

 

Also, Google Spanish Inquisition. Enjoy.

[Milan92]

Thread of the month.

[TeenBanshee]

I would love to kill Cullen,and then resurrect him,and then kill him again,would be a nice target practice to test spells.

 

Really... 

[The Night Haunter]

snippity snip snip

Bioware has included toture in previous games. SWTOR comes to mind first (being the most recent) where a whole quest as a Sith Inquisitor on the very first planet has you torturing info out of someone (or getting it peacefully if your a Sith Hippy). KotOR has some toture info outa people scenes. Jade Empire I'm pretty sure had you punch someone a few times to get some info.

 

It isn't much of a stretch to think in DAI we will be able to engage in some light toture (most likely just saying 'Tell me what you know!' and they say no so you poke em in the arm then they cry like a baby and tell you everything). It isn't that Bioware doesn't want to put torture in, its that there hasn't really been a reason to. In DAO who would we have tortured and why? We're never really searching for info. Ditto for DA2. DAI is the first opportunity in the DA verse where we might actually want to get info out of someone and thus have the option to torture them.

[In Exile]

I guess we consumers are perfectly happy with endorsing genocide, killing kids and selling people into slavery and other horrible things as long as it's not torture. Thank goodness. And I didn't know murdering people was a good thing either!

Fact is, including stuff like torture isn't endorsement or anything silly like that. It's about showing the darker side of humanity, something that GRRM and CDProjekt Red aren't afraid to do unlike Bioware who plays it safe because political correctness and all that.

 

It's an insult to GRRM to compare his work to CDProjeckt. Martin's torture and brutality scenes are often (if not exclusively) from the POV of the character brutalized. His scenes of abuse are about putting the reader in a position of powerlessness, and showing the senselessness and savagery of abuse. In the Witcher games, the protagonist is completely insulated from the violence. You're an unkillable super soldier. Even you're supposed imprisonment in TW2 ends with you unblemished. If Martin was writing that scene, Geralt would have gone the way of Theon, particularly with the fact that he's famed for the same sort of womanizing. 

 

Spoiler

That means Geralt is left without a dick, and probably without sword hands as well. Maybe blinded. Who knows? Point is, getting chained up and slapped around isn't really torturing the protagonist

.

[In Exile]

Bioware has included toture in previous games. SWTOR comes to mind first (being the most recent) where a whole quest as a Sith Inquisitor on the very first planet has you torturing info out of someone (or getting it peacefully if your a Sith Hippy). KotOR has some toture info outa people scenes. Jade Empire I'm pretty sure had you punch someone a few times to get some info.

 

It isn't much of a stretch to think in DAI we will be able to engage in some light toture (most likely just saying 'Tell me what you know!' and they say no so you poke em in the arm then they cry like a baby and tell you everything). It isn't that Bioware doesn't want to put torture in, its that there hasn't really been a reason to. In DAO who would we have tortured and why? We're never really searching for info. Ditto for DA2. DAI is the first opportunity in the DA verse where we might actually want to get info out of someone and thus have the option to torture them.

 

Bioware has specifically ruled out torture of the realistic, medieval kind. SWTOR has force lightning torture, i.e., Emperor "torturing" Luke in ROTJ. There's a huge gap between that and mutilation. 

[Deviija]

Oh dear... that escalated quickly.  

 

But no, I'll pass on undead slaves.  

[TKavatar]

It's an insult to GRRM to compare his work to CDProjeckt. Martin's torture and brutality scenes are often (if not exclusively) from the POV of the character brutalized. His scenes of abuse are about putting the reader in a position of powerlessness, and showing the senselessness and savagery of abuse. In the Witcher games, the protagonist is completely insulated from the violence. You're an unkillable super soldier. Even you're supposed imprisonment in TW2 ends with you unblemished. If Martin was writing that scene, Geralt would have gone the way of Theon, particularly with the fact that he's famed for the same sort of womanizing.

Spoiler

That means Geralt is left without a dick, and probably without sword hands as well. Maybe blinded. Who knows? Point is, getting chained up and slapped around isn't really torturing the protagonist

.

Have you actually played the game, In Exile? Geralt never participates in torture, but we get to watch one. It happens, it's raw and it definitely shows the senseless and savagery of abuse and mutilation. You end up feeling really sorry for the villan who receives it. It's not sanitised or glossed over.

And Geralt is unblemished? Those scars on his body didn't just poof out of nowhere. Compare it to DAO, where that guy in Howe's dungeon is supposedly tortured but there's not a mark on his body.

Bioware tells us there are awful things happening in Thedas. Problem is I don't see any of it.

[Grieving Natashina]

Oh great, this has completely devolved completely into another "Why can't we torture and/or keep slaves as the Inquisitor" debate.  With "killed zombie companions" for the necromancer as a bonus.  This is going to end badly.

 

[OctagonalSquare]

WTF is with everyone being hellbent on doing morally reprehensible acts? I wouldn't really care either way whether BioWare included these things or not, but I'm certainly not going to ****** beg for their implementation.

[TKavatar]

WTF is with everyone being hellbent on doing morally reprehensible acts? I wouldn't really care either way whether BioWare included these things or not, but I'm certainly not going to ****** beg for their implementation.

I'm just asking, in a game where you can commit GENOCIDE why is the line drawn at torture?

Why is interrogating someone for information is somehow more morally reprehensible than committing genocide and mass murder on a daily game basis?

[naddaya]

Not too fond of undead slaves. They're creepy, ugly, noisy and they stink. Give me a dragon!

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

What was that line again? Something about a flayed man having no secrets....

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I think this video sums up my opinion on the matter being discussed.

 

[KaiserShep]

Bioware tells us there are awful things happening in Thedas. Problem is I don't see any of it.

 

The problem is that this can easily become an exercise of excess. We don't need to see how a broodmother is made, do we?

 

Personally, I don't see the importance, or relevance, of torture. It doesn't really matter if the setting has a medieval-ish motif, because torture is something that exists in all time frames anyway. The act of torture itself serves no real purpose other than to add an extra bit of sadism where none was really necessary. It doesn't make the story more realistic; it just means you can press a "be meaner" button.

 

This was an issue I had with GTAV as well. The torture gameplay sequence with Trevor was just as pointless, maybe even more so, as controlling Michael to do calisthenics.

[TKavatar]

The problem is that this can easily become an exercise of excess. We don't need to see how a broodmother is made, do we?

Of course, but moderation is the key here.

And it all depends on the context. For example if a female companion is captured by the darkspawn and as you arrive to save her, well what you do think will resonate with the player and create a more powerful emotional response? Her simply standing in a cage waiting to be rescued or seeing the darkspawn starting to forcefeed her darkspawn guts?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The problem is that this can easily become an exercise of excess. We don't need to see how a broodmother is made, do we?

Well, it would answer the debate on the meaning of Hespith's song once and for all. Then again so would a developer comment. I'd prefer the second. 

[KaiserShep]

I wasn't aware that there was an actual debate on Hespith's chant. It seemed pretty straightforward to me...

 

Of course, but moderation is the key here.

And it all depends on the context. For example if a female companion is captured by the darkspawn and as you arrive to save her, well what you do think will resonate with the player and create a more powerful emotional response? Her simply standing in a cage waiting to be rescued or seeing the darkspawn starting to forcefeed her darkspawn guts?

 

Sure, but then we would be stopping the torture before it happens, not actually viewing it. In this case, it would just be a darkspawn mook standing there with a handful of crap that it [presumably] fails to force-feed to its victim, the protagonist walks in, and it stops what it's doing and turns on him/her instead. It's the same effect as walking in on your companion's torturer just as he's about to crank the wheel on the rack, and you kill him before he gets the chance. The torture is implied, but it never takes place.

 

In this scenario, imagine that this quest was timed, and if you didn't get there in time, you would not be able to prevent the darkspawn from shoving entrails down your female companion's throat? Would the effect of your failure be any different if we actually watched the process while we futilely fight off waves of darkspawn than if we walked in to see the final transformation? Your companion is still lost forever and is a terrible ghoul to boot.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I wasn't aware that there was an actual debate on Hespith's chant. It seemed pretty straightforward to me...

Well, not so much anymore. Basically the two sides were "Darkspawn Rape Females" and "Darkspawn Don't Rape Females". Since any evidence that exists can support both sides due to the vagueness of it all, both sides pretty much stopped arguing it. 

[TKavatar]

Bioware doesn't even imply that torture has taken place properly. That guy in Howe's dungeon was supposedly tortured for weeks and there's not a single mark on his body, not even blood splatter. Later on we hear that the physicians were appalled at what Howe did to him, that some of his injuries were beyond any healing. But we never see it.

Granted they could be internal injuries but still...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Why are we even discussing this? Bioware confirmed there won't be torture in Inquisition. 

[Grieving Natashina]

Why are we even discussing this? Bioware confirmed there won't be torture in Inquisition. 

I've been wondering that for the last 12 hours or so...