823 réponses à ce sujet

[The Night Haunter]

They still have a mobile culture with respectable traditions about nature, relationship to animals, hunting, crafting, etc.. Saying this is no better than begging, stealing, sitting around decripit, and living in dog ****** is silly. It's like saying Native Americans who've kept their traditions are no better than the miserable drunks in cities.

I'm not saying either is 'better' than the other, I'm saying both are Elven. Also suggesting all CE are drunks who sit around stealing is a bit silly. CE contribute more to the well being of every city with an alienage than humans do. Every society sits upon the foundation of its lowest classes, if they should disappear the whole society would collapse. If CE up and disappeared (Dwemer style for those familiar with Elder Scrolls) then human civilization would go through a major upheaval, as all the lowest, most demeaning jobs performed by elves would now be going undone.

 

Also: The elves of Arlathan were not mobile, and very little information is given as to whether they had a 'one-with-nature' attitude. The evidence Felassan gives suggests they were more similar to the humans of Orlais than the Dalish Elves. So saying the Dalish are more elven is just as false under that criteria.

[Former_Fiend]

I don't know how important Velanna would be to the plot of inquisition. Her story is primarily about finding her sister and is therefore tied to the darkspawn plot. 

[Chari]

And yet a city elf is more likely to be exposed to a multicultural society, and is more likely to travel the known world to other cities, engage in trade with other races, etc...

The Dalish can look down on the shems' use of horses to get around, but sometimes, it's nice to have a mount that does your bidding, rather than serve as your spiritual companion.

Other races treat elves worse than dirt. In fact every other race does

Dalish respect nature and it makes them unique

[KaiserShep]

The only cool thing about CE origin is that it should get you angry. It's good motive for rage. Not something you actually embrace.

 

A wise man once said:

 

Rage is a hell of an anesthetic.

[KaiserShep]

Other races treat elves worse than dirt. In fact every other race does

Dalish respect nature and it makes them unique

 

The point is, as society progresses, the city elves will be part of that. The Dalish will remain the holdouts adhering to a tribal society. However well that fares for them long-term is anyone's guess, but as cities/territories expand, their foraging grounds will be encroached upon, and there's not much they can do about it except maybe ambush supply lines and attack unwitting passersby. Sure, city elves get the considerably short end of the stick, but that can't possibly last forever.

[Former_Fiend]

Other races treat elves worse than dirt. In fact every other race does

Dalish respect nature and it makes them unique

 

Qunari treat elves within their ranks with complete equality and elves outside their ranks with equal contempt as they treat everyone else. 

 

I also don't think we've seen enough dwarf/elf interaction to get a good gauge on how they treat elves.

 

So, mainly it's just humans who treat them like dirt.

[The Night Haunter]

Slavery doesn't make american culture unique. Many cultures had and still have it

Dalish take less from humans and more from arlathan

Dalish try and take more from Arlathan culture, but ultimately they are unique and distinct from the elves of Arlathan, who lived in cities, with nobles and kings and peasants and people who "scrubbed the floors". It is highly suggested by Felassan that the elves of Arlathan were more similar to the humans or Orlais (beyond which gods they choose to worship) than they are to the Dalish.

 

The Dalish are true elves, who happen to focus on attempting to preserve the old traditions and knowledge of Arlathan. The City Elves are true elves, who happen to have adapted to a changing world and have a growing place in the society of Thedas. As time goes on the culture of the City Elves will continue to expand (unless we as the Inquistor crush them like bugs) while the culture of the Dalish will continue unchanged and unchanging.

 

Not every aspect of a culture needs to be unique for that culture to be unique. There are hundreds of Cultures in the US, almost all of whom have quite a few elements in common with each other, but they are unique because is more than just the sum of its parts.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm not saying either is 'better' than the other, I'm saying both are Elven. Also suggesting all CE are drunks who sit around stealing is a bit silly. CE contribute more to the well being of every city with an alienage than humans do. Every society sits upon the foundation of its lowest classes, if they should disappear the whole society would collapse. If CE up and disappeared (Dwemer style for those familiar with Elder Scrolls) then human civilization would go through a major upheaval, as all the lowest, most demeaning jobs performed by elves would now be going undone.

 

Also: The elves of Arlathan were not mobile, and very little information is given as to whether they had a 'one-with-nature' attitude. The evidence Felassan gives suggests they were more similar to the humans of Orlais than the Dalish Elves. So saying the Dalish are more elven is just as false under that criteria.

A funny irony, that. Those that are treated as dirt are the most essential while those that are treated as royalty are the least essential. 

[Former_Fiend]

I've never actually gotten an elf warden to Orzamar.

 

Wait, no, I did get an elf mage there and beat the game. Don't remember much about it, though.

[KaiserShep]

Qunari treat elves within their ranks with complete equality and elves outside their ranks with equal contempt as they treat everyone else. 

 

I also don't think we've seen enough dwarf/elf interaction to get a good gauge on how they treat elves.

 

So, mainly it's just humans who treat them like dirt.

 

I imagine more dwarves are likely to be understanding, because the caste system of Orzammar is complete sh*t to begin with.

[Chari]

The point is, as society progresses, the city elves will be part of that. The Dalish will remain the holdouts adhering to a tribal society. However well that fares for them long-term is anyone's guess, but as cities/territories expand, their foraging grounds will be encroached upon, and there's not much they can do about it except maybe ambush supply lines and attack unwitting passersby. Sure, city elves get the considerably short end of the stick, but that can't possibly last forever.

Either live as slaves and servants or die free
Elves are indeed doomed

[The Night Haunter]

The only cool thing about CE origin is that it should get you angry. It's good motive for rage. To play a pissed off character who wants to make major changes. Not something you actually embrace.

Exactly.

What are you changing? Are you talking the current human/city elf dynamic and altering it, or are you reimposing the ancient arlathan culture? If your answer is the former, then CE culture is what you are expanding. If your answer is the latter then you will fail, because as Sun Tzu said 'a nation that has been destroyed, cannot be reborn'. If we want to make changes we are basing those changes off of current city elven culture, which makes their culture the starting point of any future elven nation born from a rebellion against the human oppressors. 

[The Night Haunter]

A funny irony, that. Those that are treated as dirt are the most essential while those that are treated as royalty are the least essential. 

A problem that sadly still exists today.

[Oasis_JS]

Ok..people I think you all are going off topic now ^^ 

[The Night Haunter]

Ok..people I think you all are going off topic now ^^ 

I was just thinking the same thing, lol. But real conversations evolve and this is the first elf vs elf argument I've seen. It's usually elf vs chantry/humans. An interesting change of pace.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Exactly.

What are you changing? Are you talking the current human/city elf dynamic and altering it, or are you reimposing the ancient arlathan culture? If your answer is the former, then CE culture is what you are expanding. If your answer is the latter then you will fail, because as Sun Tzu said 'a nation that has been destroyed, cannot be reborn'. If we want to make changes we are basing those changes off of current city elven culture, which makes their culture the starting point of any future elven nation born from a rebellion against the human oppressors. 

Yep. One must adapt to a changing world or you will be left behind. It applies both to animals as well as cultures.

 

 

A problem that sadly still exists today.

Indeed.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Ok..people I think you all are going off topic now ^^ 

Then to get it ontopic:

 

After her exposure to the Wardens, does anyone think Velanna's outlook on the situation has evolved? 

[Chari]

Qunari treat elves within their ranks with complete equality and elves outside their ranks with equal contempt as they treat everyone else.

I also don't think we've seen enough dwarf/elf interaction to get a good gauge on how they treat elves.

So, mainly it's just humans who treat them like dirt.

These elves are qunari, not elves. I recall Sten's funny phrase about elves excelling at poverty

Dwarves used to be slavers themselves. Plus according to canon they are really racist

[KaiserShep]

Since my Warden befriended Valenna, she became more accepting of humans, and in the epilogue, should you fulfill her Exile quest, she even saves a village single-handed.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Since my Warden befriended Valenna, she became more accepting of humans, and in the epilogue, should you fulfill her Exile quest, she even saves a village single-handed.

Mine too.

[KaiserShep]

These elves are qunari, not elves. I recall Sten's funny phrase about elves excelling at poverty

Dwarves used to be slavers themselves. Plus according to canon they are really racist

 

Don't forget severely classist, since there are no laws against mistreating the casteless of Orzammar (though I hope Bhelen improves upon it).

 

But anyway, the distinction between "elf" and "qunari" is kind of weird, because elf is not a religion or philosophy; it's just their species. Ironically, the Qun is pretty much like the Dalish, insofar either conform entirely to that way of life, or you are not welcome. Of course, the die part is clearly the distinguishing factor here.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Don't forget severely classist, since there are no laws against mistreating the casteless of Orzammar (though I hope Bhelen improves upon it).

 

But anyway, the distinction between "elf" and "qunari" is kind of weird, because elf is not a religion or philosophy; it's just their species. Difference is, that the Qun is pretty much like the Dalish. You either conform entirely to that way of life, or you are not welcome.

He better, that's the main reason I choose him is because of his desire to change the old ways. I've been playing as a Casteless Dwarf and I forgot how much of this is because of his love for Rica.