You said Dales started the war and it was their fault the tensions got bad
The funny part is that both are true. Whether the elves of the present deserve to be treated like crap, which I believe they don't, is not really the issue; it's simply the result.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Why do the elves need missionaries anyways? They had a history of following Andraste already - and she made no demand to convert to some Chantry religion. She wanted them to help end Tevinter slavery.
Even if they had valid reasons for war, it still makes no sense to wipe out Shartan from their Chant, and erase all images and mention of him in their history. This is systematic racism, within not just Orlais, but the Orlesian chantry itself.
These people follow Andraste? When they so easily take a giant dump on her friend?
If they're capable of this level of douchebaggery, it makes me question their reasons for war too.
Orlais may well have instigated the war - lots of in-game sources suggest that the Chantry was rabble-rousing to get the population up in arms for a potential war. And their after-the-fact response goes far beyond just a military conquest. It's Roman style sacking and effective enslavement.
At the end of the day, we're dealing with a race war where one side didn't have the military might to take on all of Thedas. And it still took a decade for Orlais to conquer the Dales.
The funny part is that both are true. Whether the elves of the present deserve to be treated like crap, which I believe they don't, is not really the issue; it's simply the result.
Indeed. The elves of today don't deserve the mistreatment they get just because their ancestors invaded Orlais. Same as why the Casteless Dwarves don't deserve their mistreatment just because their ancestors did something bad.
Why do the elves need missionaries anyways? They had a history of following Andraste already - and she made no demand to convert to some Chantry religion. She wanted them to help end Tevinter slavery.
The Chant has specific passages that have to do with proselytizing, and it's a core tenet of the faith that the Maker will only return when the Chant is sung from all four corners of the world. Whatever Andraste said, the Chantry itself is very evangelical and expansionist.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
The Chant has specific passages that have to do with proselytizing, and it's a core tenet of the faith that the Maker will only return when the Chant is sung from all four corners of the world. Whatever Andraste said, the Chantry itself is very evangelical and expansionist.
I'm reminded of a line from Elthina.. how she thinks maybe the Maker has sent the Qunari to "teach us something". lol
I'd almost like to see that. For these Chantry nations to get a taste of their own medicine from an unequally unrelenting, proselytizing force.
edit: I guess I'm getting way off topic though.
Anyway, let's talk about Velanna in Inquisition.
Indeed. The elves of today don't deserve the mistreatment they get just because their ancestors invaded Orlais. Same as why the Casteless Dwarves don't deserve their mistreatment just because their ancestors did something bad.
I like to think of the Howe situation as something similar, but on a smaller scale. The human noble could, if he/she felt such a lust for vengeance, have the entire Howe line killed as a result. But, even if this doesn't happen, their entire family becomes pariahs. Whether or not they deserve it doesn't change the fact that it's Rendon Howe's fault.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Anyway, let's talk about Velanna in Inquisition.
It's run it's course, hasn't it? 
Anyway, to the topic at hand, my hope for Valenna is that her personality can vary at least a little based on some past actions on the part of the Warden-Commander. Like, if she were to actually interact with a human Inquisitor, she may sneer a bit more if she wasn't friends with the Warden-Commander. I don't suppose she'd care either way for dwarves or even qunari.
I like to think of the Howe situation as something similar, but on a smaller scale. The human noble could, if he/she felt such a lust for vengeance, have the entire Howe line killed as a result. But, even if this doesn't happen, their entire family becomes pariahs. Whether or not they deserve it doesn't change the fact that it's Rendon Howe's fault.
That's an apt comparison. Just instead of individuals, have them personify nations.
Anyway, to the topic at hand, my hope for Valenna is that her personality can vary at least a little based on some past actions on the part of the Warden-Commander. Like, if she were to actually interact with a human Inquisitor, she may sneer a bit more if she wasn't friends with the Warden-Commander. I don't suppose she'd care either way for dwarves or even qunari.
I'd like that.
1,2. Then stop blaming Velanna and alike elves for hating humans. They have a good reason to feel this wayPoint 1: Only in your head did I ever say that the elves weren't oppressed. You're quoting a post that literally has noting to do with that.
Point 2: At no point did I condone the genocide that Orlais conduct in the Dales. This, again, exists only in your head.
Point 3: The Dales invaded Orlais first, not the other way around. Whether or not it was a Dalish raid on Red Crossing that started the war, the events that immediately followed it resulted in a large scale invasion of Orlais. That could happen in one of two ways (1) the Dalish were actually invading with a massive military force or (2) Orlais started the war and invaded first, but lost a massive battle inside Orlais, and then the Dales followed that up by cutting a bloody path through Orlais all the way to Val Royeaux, including (according to the Codex that Hinata posted, actually sacking Val Royeaux).
Orlais sent Templars first without elves' permission. Templars are a military force. So they began itChantry sends missionaries
Dales kick out missionaries
Chantry sends Templars to defend missionaries before going back into Dales
Dales attacks Red Crossing
Dales invades Orlais and sacks several cities, including Orlais' capitol
Orlais asks Chantry for help
Chantry declares Exalted March
Chantry and Orlais force Dales back
Chantry and Orlais rob Dales of capability to make war.
They did. Dales invaded Orlais first. As for tensions, no I said them not helping in the Blight made it worse, which it did.
Bullshit and victim blaming as wellThe funny part is that both are true. Whether the elves of the present deserve to be treated like crap, which I believe they don't, is not really the issue; it's simply the result.
It's not victim blaming to insist that a country losing horribly after invading another, which they certainly did, is their own doing. If you want to insist that the Chantry's historical account on the issue is an outright lie, that's your prerogative, but without proof to state otherwise, it's simply an assumption.
One last thing about the Orlais-Dales War.
In my mind, the Orlais-Dales War really is a combination of misunderstandings and the thought pattern of this song:
Technically it was Orlais who entered Dales without a permission firstIt's not victim blaming to insist that a country losing horribly after invading another, which they certainly did, is their own doing. If you want to insist that the Chantry's historical account on the issue is an outright lie, that's your prerogative, but without proof to state otherwise, it's simply an assumption.
Technically it was Orlais who entered Dales without a permission first
If a country says no to you trying to enter it, it means no
Technically it was the Chantry, not Orlais. 
Okay, that was the last thing on the subject. We should drop this now.
Genocide is just misunderstanding, I see...One last thing about the Orlais-Dales War.
In my mind, the Orlais-Dales War really is a combination of misunderstandings and the thought pattern of this song
Guest_StreetMagic_*
It's not victim blaming to insist that a country losing horribly after invading another, which they certainly did, is their own doing. If you want to insist that the Chantry's historical account on the issue is an outright lie, that's your prerogative, but without proof to state otherwise, it's simply an assumption.
If they had all the rights and honor in the situation, then why they did go a step further and rewrite the history of Andraste by removing Shartan (or in one incident in TME, they erased his elf ears in a painting lol). It sounds like they have more prerogatives here than simple homeland defense.
It was Orlesian ChantryTechnically it was the Chantry, not Orlais.
Okay, that was the last thing on the subject. We should drop this now.
1,2. Then stop blaming Velanna and alike elves for hating humans. They have a good reason to feel this way
3. Uh, no. Orlais sent templars inside a country without it's permission. Most proofs about Red Crossing are Chantry-based and even if they happened it was one bandit group. If Orlais had been invaded before by elves Chantry would never let us forget that
1) They're still racists. There are lots of reasons for them to resent what happened historically. That doesn't change the fact that Velanna is a racist elven supremacist at the start of the game.
2) The Chantry doesn't let us forget that, because like you said in your own post, their official position is that Red Crossing started the war. And even if that were false, it doesn't change the fact that the Dales (a) sacked Montsimard and (
sacked Val Royeaux. They were the aggressors in the end, and they were well on their way to eradicating the entire country before the Exalted March was called.
When you rape and pillage two cities as an invader, you lose the moral highground (even if you had it to start). The elven response to a small incursion of templars is disproportionate and borderline insane. If Orlais sent templars first, it was a violation of sovereignty but it was a minor one. It certainly doesn't justify a military invasion.
If they had all the rights and honor in the situation, then why they did go a step further and rewrite the history of Andraste by removing Shartan (or in one incident in TME, they erased his elf ears in a painting lol). It sounds like they have more prerogatives here than simple homeland defense.
You're conflating two issues: (1) what the Dales did during the war, and especially at the start with (2) what Orlais did when it won the war.
1) Did you just compare elves to Nazis? Wow. That's an absolutely new level of bullshit and victim blaming1) They're still racists. There are lots of reasons for them to resent what happened historically. That doesn't change the fact that Velanna is a racist elven supremacist at the start of the game.
2) The Chantry doesn't let us forget that, because like you said in your own post, their official position is that Red Crossing started the war. And even if that were false, it doesn't change the fact that the Dales (a) sacked Montsimard and (
When you rape and pillage two cities as an invader, you lose the moral highground (even if you had it to start). The elven response to a small incursion of templars is disproportionate and borderline insane. If Orlais sent templars first, it was a violation of sovereignty but it was a minor one. It certainly doesn't justify a military invasion.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I'm not sure why the elves would even want to sack Orlais. Other than retaliation for something. They had the Dales already, and seem to only care about isolation and preserving their culture. What would motivate them to conquest? Was there another bit of disputed land promised to them? It's not like they have a Chant of Light equivalent and wish to proselytize or change other cultures.
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