Perhaps they should but that doesn't mean they will. Individual wardens can still make all kinds of choices. Anders cast aside his warden duties to help mages and Velanna was initially planned to be in the second game in his place wasn't she?
Anders' personal conflict/story was directly tied in to the mages & templars, even after becoming a warden. Velanna's shifted from elves and humans to become more focused on her sister.
Really? How exactly is she a garbage character? Seriously why even come to this thread if you have nothing meaningful to say.
Last time I checked, there was no rule that stated if you don't like the character you can't comment on your opinion for her to come back. She's a 1D character that is boring, embodies everything I hate about the dalish and elves in general. She is in my opinion a garbage character that was in the end a complete waste of time and a spot.
Perhaps they should but that doesn't mean they will. Individual wardens can still make all kinds of choices. Anders cast aside his warden duties to help mages and Velanna was initially planned to be in the second game in his place wasn't she?
I just think Velanna as Warden deserter makes a lot less sense than Velanna as Warden, except for the epilogue where she bears a grudge against the Warden Commander. In the aftermath of epilogues where Velanna either defends humans against darkspawn or remains with the Grey Wardens for years, I think it would be a bit forced to have Velanna return as a deserter and an elven rebel. On those paths Velanna seemed to be on a similar path as the one Duncan travelled. (reluctant Warden to Warden stalwart)
If she should return it should feel natural and not like she replaced a new character just for the sake of a cameo, and I'm not sure you'd get that with two of the Awakening epilogues for the character.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Yeah Anders was already bitching about Templars in Awakening. All Justice did was give him that extra push to do something about it.
I agree with everyone saying Velanna joining an Elven rebellion would a step backwards. I'm not totally opposed it, because someone at BioWare might (and I stress might here) have a really good story arc and I won't say 'no' to that. But I do prefer that her return center on the Wardens/Architect/her sister.
WHy does everyone presume that Velanna would be included in the game on behalf of the Dalish, when we KNOW that Wardens play a role in the game already? WHy exactly wouldn't they show her as part of the Wardens?
Anders' personal conflict/story was directly tied in to the mages & templars, even after becoming a warden. Velanna's shifted from elves and humans to become more focused on her sister.
Velanna joined the Wardens because they'd help her find her sister, who she later found out was working with the Architect, In the Epilogue where you kill the Architect it's mentioned that she never forgives the Warden-Commander for preventing her saving her sister. Whereas in the ending where he lives she eventually leaves because she believes she spots her sister in the Deep Roads. Rather than elves or the Wardens, it was always her sister as her main priority,
Anders on the other hand, pretty much joined only because it provided him protection from the Templars, before AWOL as soon as the entire Mother/Architect situation was dealt with. He'd done his part, repaid the Warden-Commander for saving his neck and had no reason to stick around anymore. Coupled with joining with Justice, he'd far prefer to take the fight to the Templars than continue dealing with Darkspawn.
WHy does everyone presume that Velanna would be included in the game on behalf of the Dalish, when we KNOW that Wardens play a role in the game already? WHy exactly wouldn't they show her as part of the Wardens?
Because the part about Velanna that most people see first is her militant Dalish attitude. It takes a lot of legwork to get her to open up as a character and see past that veneer. And, speaking personally, I just never liked DA:A enough to actually experiment with it enough to get Velanna early enough to see much of her content.
Because the part about Velanna that most people see first is her militant Dalish attitude. It takes a lot of legwork to get her to open up as a character and see past that veneer. And, speaking personally, I just never liked DA:A enough to actually experiment with it enough to get Velanna early enough to see much of her content.
I had no problem looking beyond Velanna's initial impression on me. Mostly because I completely understood where she was comming from.
But basically you are saying that you have never really bothered, and therefore you dislike the idea of her having an appearance in the game, no matter in what form?
I had no problem looking beyond Velanna's initial impression on me. Mostly because I completely understood where she was comming from.
But basically you are saying that you have never really bothered, and therefore you dislike the idea of her having an appearance in the game, no matter in what form?
That's not close to what I was saying in my previous post.
You asked why most people assume Velanna is tied to the Dalish rather than the Wardens. I said (1) that this is because in her initial presentation, she is heavily tied to the Dalish and that to see her Warden ties, you have to invest in her character and (2) that because of the buggy nature of DA:A and the fact we couldn't talk to companions unless we hit the right spots or approval thresholds, it's very difficult to build up that approval (for example, I did not).
I like her.
As a person or as a character?
Last time I checked, there was no rule that stated if you don't like the character you can't comment on your opinion for her to come back. She's a 1D character that is boring, embodies everything I hate about the dalish and elves in general. She is in my opinion a garbage character that was in the end a complete waste of time and a spot.
MHer voice is what drove me nuts. It grated on my nerves.
MHer voice is what drove me nuts. It grated on my nerves.
Agreed. I could tolerate her if she wasn't yelling all the time (even as she warms up to the Warden).
As a person or as a character?
As a character. She's a horrible person, at least initially. But then, half of our companions are terrible people.
Agreed. I could tolerate her if she wasn't yelling all the time (even as she warms up to the Warden).
Yeah. I could not stand the voice acting. It was way over done.
MHer voice is what drove me nuts. It grated on my nerves.
I like Velanna. I think she certainly deserves a bigger role in Dragon Age and I'd like to see her working (with Merrill perhaps?) to restore the status of her people. I think the Chantry will take a big hit in DAI which will give room for the Elves to actually do something else than staying in the forest and tell stories about how bad the humans are. I don't think she would be in DAI other than perhaps a cameo, but we will probably see her in a future game, or dlc/expansion perhaps.
I like Velanna. I think she certainly deserves a bigger role in Dragon Age and I'd like to see her working (with Merrill perhaps?) to restore the status of her people. I think the Chantry will take a big hit in DAI which will give room for the Elves to actually do something else than staying in the forest and tell stories about how bad the humans are. I don't think she would be in DAI other than perhaps a cameo, but we will probably see her in a future game, or dlc/expansion perhaps.
The Chantry isn't the reason why the Dalish or the CEs are marginalized. Even with Orlais' power broken, that doesn't change how Ferelden or Kirkwall, for example, treat elves. It's racism, and it isn't just tied to the religion.
The Chantry isn't the reason why the Dalish or the CEs are marginalized. Even with Orlais' power broken, that doesn't change how Ferelden or Kirkwall, for example, treat elves. It's racism, and it isn't just tied to the religion.
Chantry is the main propaganda against elves. Also humans in turmoil allow for elves to rise above their "stations". I'd say that if they had a chance to rise, that would be it. It's not racism that created the friction, it's just the salt in the wound. Elves need to establish a place as their own while those who can oppose them can't be bothered with them.
Anti elven racism has existed since long before the Chantry. The Chant of Light has no anti-elven doctrine. And just because there is a Veil Tear Crisis doesn't mean the elves suddenly become more powerful, they are threatened too.
Chantry is the main propaganda against elves. Also humans in turmoil allow for elves to rise above their "stations". I'd say that if they had a chance to rise, that would be it. It's not racism that created the friction, it's just the salt in the wound. Elves need to establish a place as their own while those who can oppose them can't be bothered with them.
The Chantry has no anti-elven propaganda. After crushing the Dales, there were anti-Elven changes made to the Chant, but that's racism influencing the doctrine, not doctrine being racist. The elves can't rip out a country by military force and then go about being isolationist - that's just a repeat of the Dales, minus the good will that allowed them to establish the Dales in the first place in peace.
Thedas has been devastated by four blights, but only one - the first - led to any improvement in the lives of the elves. Even if the Veil tear repeats that, it will be be because the human nations as a whole are weakened, not because the Chantry ripped itself apart.
The Chantry has no anti-elven propaganda. After crushing the Dales, there were anti-Elven changes made to the Chant, but that's racism influencing the doctrine, not doctrine being racist. The elves can't rip out a country by military force and then go about being isolationist - that's just a repeat of the Dales, minus the good will that allowed them to establish the Dales in the first place in peace.
Thedas has been devastated by four blights, but only one - the first - led to any improvement in the lives of the elves. Even if the Veil tear repeats that, it will be be because the human nations as a whole are weakened, not because the Chantry ripped itself apart.
I'm willing to bet you a bigillion gold that there has never, ever, been an Elven Divine, or even a Grand Cleric. We rarely even see them as any part of the church hierarchy, instead they are often outside the hierarchy, like Leliana was. Serving the chantry but without any real authority. Ironically the place where elves can advance the furthest is in the Circles (where everyone is labelled as mage, and race becomes less important).
I'm not saying the Chant itself preaches against elves though, I'm just pointing out that the Chantry (which is distinct from the Chant itself) is racist. This is mostly because humans in general in Thedas, and especially those at the top of the food chain, tend towards racism.
Theres also has never been a male divine, or a male grand cleric (talking white chantry here) or dwarven for that matter. I don't think we can say in all fairness that the chantry is anti-elf for those reasons.
I'm willing to bet you a bigillion gold that there has never, ever, been an Elven Divine, or even a Grand Cleric. We rarely even see them as any part of the church hierarchy, instead they are often outside the hierarchy, like Leliana was. Serving the chantry but without any real authority. Ironically the place where elves can advance the furthest is in the Circles (where everyone is labelled as mage, and race becomes less important).
I'm not saying the Chant itself preaches against elves though, I'm just pointing out that the Chantry (which is distinct from the Chant itself) is racist. This is mostly because humans in general in Thedas, and especially those at the top of the food chain, tend towards racism.
The Chantry as a political institution reflects society - it is as racist and classist as the rest of society is in Thedas. IRL, minorities were often shut out from political and economic power. That isn't because, for example, medicine is racist. It's because doctors were racist.
The fact that there's no elven divine is because humans are powerful and racist, not because the Chant says: you can't have elven divines.
The Chantry as a political institution reflects society - it is as racist and classist as the rest of society is in Thedas. IRL, minorities were often shut out from political and economic power. That isn't because, for example, medicine is racist. It's because doctors were racist.
The fact that there's no elven divine is because humans are powerful and racist, not because the Chant says: you can't have elven divines.
Again, you're mistaking the Chant and the Chantry. Those are two completely seperate things. One if a book/poem thingy, the other is a religious and political organization. If the members of that organization are racist (which we've seen) then that organization is racist.
The reason there are no male divines is because the Chant itself (the 'White' one) says men cannot be a part of the priesthood, that's why all members of the Chantries hierarchy are women. I have little doubt that there are elven chanters (priestesses), but they don't rise as high in the hierarchy is because the upper members of the chantry are racist (in general).
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