823 réponses à ce sujet

[Chari]

And Tevinter is the oldest human culture we know of that had a religion. They are the oldest culture we know of other than "the human tribes came across the ocean from another continent".

Didn't realize people were identified solely by their belief system according to you.
Again, they live there because their family lives there. Home is where you are surrounded by those who care about you. The Dalish elves only care about other Dalish elves. Unless you become them, they leave you to fend for yourself. Besides if you think the humans will just allow the elves to leave en mass, and thus lose a huge labor force, you're fooling yourself. They may not be slaves, but they are only one step above it. And many not even that much.
I say the City Elves can also blame the ancient Dalish elves for picking the fight in the first place by invading Orlais.

Arlathan is the ONLY ancient elven culture we know. There is nothing else to choose from. Headcanons are worth nothing

City elves have lost long time ago their own identity. They live in human cities yet no one treats them as part of the culture. They list all connections to thrir wild and free brothers and sisters. They ****** on the tree which symbolsises them. As Zevran said, that's symbolic. Or ironic

They could potentially move with their families. No one said it would be easy.
And why shouldn't they? The Dalish are not charity, they own nothing to no one. If they see an elf in trouble they'll help them, but after leave. And that's more than most humans would do
And that only proves that living in the forests is much better. Besides that's humans' fault, not the Dalish'
Orlais started the war because elves worshipped their own gods and had their own culture. That's hardly elves' fault. Funny thing is Orlais wouldn't attack if elves were strong enough to hit back like Tevinter or Qunari or ancient Dwarves. Easy prey

[Chari]

You can be helpful to a group without believing in the same religion as them. I point to our entire planet pretty much as an example.

It is not just religion. It is a unique style of life. You can easily lie and just do some general rituals like learning phrases and prayers. Most recent don't notice, won't care if you respect the life style and don't go around shouting that their beliefs are false
No culture would accept such disrespect

[Pirate Queen Isabela]

The difference between casteless Dwarves and City Elves is: Casteless aren't allowed weapons out of pure tradition, City Elves aren't allowed weapons because of pure paranoia. I can't believe the victim-blaming I'm seeing, blaming the City Elves for staying in one place? Not all C.E can afford to just leave the Alienage and run around with the Dalish. The Dalish aren't even safe: hunters, raiders, bandits, they are constantly on the move too because of the Humans. Thedas in general is not safe for the Elves, and that isn't their fault.

 

C.E have their own traditions, and some mixed with Human traditions, they are their own people. Dalish look down on them and then expect them to join them? Humans look down on them and treat them like scum and it's somehow the City Elves fault? Am I missing something?

 

 

Anyways, I loved Velanna. I hope she comes back one day with Sigrun. I harbor a huge dislike for Anders and I would have much rather had Velanna, honestly.

[Chari]

The difference between casteless Dwarves and City Elves is: Casteless aren't allowed weapons out of pure tradition, City Elves aren't allowed weapons because of pure paranoia. I can't believe the victim-blaming I'm seeing, blaming the City Elves for staying in one place? Not all C.E can afford to just leave the Alienage and run around with the Dalish. The Dalish aren't even safe: hunters, raiders, bandits, they are constantly on the move too because of the Humans. Thedas in general is not safe for the Elves, and that isn't their fault.

C.E have their own traditions, and some mixed with Human traditions, they are their own people. Dalish look down on them and then expect them to join them? Humans look down on them and treat them like scum and it's somehow the City Elves fault? Am I missing something?


Anyways, I loved Velanna. I hope she comes back one day with Sigrun. I harbor a huge dislike for Anders and I would have much rather had Velanna, honestly.

I can't believe nonsense-blaming I am seeing. City elves live like rats and are treated like **** by humans and that's somehow is the Dalish elves' fault?

The Dalish do not expect the city elves to join them. They give them a choice and do not understand how they can live alongside people who abuse them.
Neither do I

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Arlathan is the ONLY ancient elven culture we know. There is nothing else to choose from. Headcanons are worth nothing

City elves have lost long time ago their own identity. They live in human cities yet no one treats them as part of the culture. They list all connections to thrir wild and free brothers and sisters. They ****** on the tree which symbolsises them. As Zevran said, that's symbolic. Or ironic

They could potentially move with their families. No one said it would be easy.
And why shouldn't they? The Dalish are not charity, they own nothing to no one. If they see an elf in trouble they'll help them, but after leave. And that's more than most humans would do
And that only proves that living in the forests is much better. Besides that's humans' fault, not the Dalish'
Orlais started the war because elves worshipped their own gods and had their own culture. That's hardly elves' fault. Funny thing is Orlais wouldn't attack if elves were strong enough to hit back like Tevinter or Qunari or ancient Dwarves. Easy prey

And there is nothing else to choose from other than Tevinter for "ancient human powerhouse cultures".

 

Really? They sure seemed to still see themselves as elves.

 

Again, the humans allow the occasional leaver. They'd never allow large numbers to leave. Sure they can leave one family at a time, but eventually the humans will stop them from leaving at all. 

Because for people who want to restore the greatness of the elves, they sure do treat other elves like dirt. They are no better than the humans. At least the humans give them the Alienage so a roof over their heads regardless of what the elves do. The Dalish turn the City Elves who don't want to be Dalish away. If the ancient Arlathan elves were that way as well, I'm glad their culture is gone.

No, the Dalish launched the first offensive by attacking Red Crossing then starting a warpath through Orlais. Like the Mages when the dissolved the Circle, the Dalish started the war whether it was justified or not.

 

 

It is not just religion. It is a unique style of life. You can easily lie and just do some general rituals like learning phrases and prayers. Most recent don't notice, won't care if you respect the life style and don't go around shouting that their beliefs are false
No culture would accept such disrespect

And my statement still stands. You can be useful to a society without sharing anything culturally. If the Dalish turn away a skilled Elven Blacksmith for example simply because they don't want to be Dalish, the Dalish are simply idiots. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The difference between casteless Dwarves and City Elves is: Casteless aren't allowed weapons out of pure tradition, City Elves aren't allowed weapons because of pure paranoia. I can't believe the victim-blaming I'm seeing, blaming the City Elves for staying in one place? Not all C.E can afford to just leave the Alienage and run around with the Dalish. The Dalish aren't even safe: hunters, raiders, bandits, they are constantly on the move too because of the Humans. Thedas in general is not safe for the Elves, and that isn't their fault.

 

C.E have their own traditions, and some mixed with Human traditions, they are their own people. Dalish look down on them and then expect them to join them? Humans look down on them and treat them like scum and it's somehow the City Elves fault? Am I missing something?

 

 

Anyways, I loved Velanna. I hope she comes back one day with Sigrun. I harbor a huge dislike for Anders and I would have much rather had Velanna, honestly.

I don't get it either. This is like blaming the victim of bullying for being bullied because they don't transfer schools or something. 

 

Yeah, I liked Velanna much more than Anders. Which in a way means I'm glad she didn't do what Anders did like Bioware thought about for a bit.

[Chari]

And there is nothing else to choose from other than Tevinter for "ancient human powerhouse cultures".

Really? They sure seemed to still see themselves as elves.

Again, the humans allow the occasional leaver. They'd never allow large numbers to leave. Sure they can leave one family at a time, but eventually the humans will stop them from leaving at all.
Because for people who want to restore the greatness of the elves, they sure do treat other elves like dirt. They are no better than the humans. At least the humans give them the Alienage so a roof over their heads regardless of what the elves do. The Dalish turn the City Elves who don't want to be Dalish away. If the ancient Arlathan elves were that way as well, I'm glad their culture is gone.
No, the Dalish launched the first offensive by attacking Red Crossing then starting a warpath through Orlais. Like the Mages when the dissolved the Circle, the Dalish started the war whether it was justified or not.


And my statement still stands. You can be useful to a society without sharing anything culturally. If the Dalish turn away a skilled Elven Blacksmith for example simply because they don't want to be Dalish, the Dalish are simply idiots.

Powerhouse? Nonsense. There are many human tribes who still exist. Many origins to choose from. Elves have only one

Humans fault.

First of all they try to save and find the last bits of old culture. Dalish do not attack cities, they do not rob caravans. They wait till humans fall and want to be alone. If you cross their territory they may turn hostile like anyone else. Compared to what humans, qunari and dwarves do it is almost nothing.

They treat them better than humans do prove to be worthy of respect and you'll earn it. They have nothing for beggers and folk who want free stuff

Wow. That's bullshit. Ancient elves were murdered, enslaved, raped and brainwashed and you're glad? That's just terrible

[Chari]

City elf-blacksmith is impossible since they aren't allowed to have important jobs
Now, Dalish have their own blacksmiths and even unuque styles of smithing

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Powerhouse? Nonsense. There are many human tribes who still exist. Many origins to choose from. Elves have only one

Humans fault.

First of all they try to save and find the last bits of old culture. Dalish do not attack cities, they do not rob caravans. They wait till humans fall and want to be alone. If you cross their territory they may turn hostile like anyone else. Compared to what humans, qunari and dwarves do it is almost nothing.

They treat them better than humans do prove to be worthy of respect and you'll earn it. They have nothing for beggers and folk who want free stuff

Wow. That's bullshit. Ancient elves were murdered, enslaved, raped and brainwashed and you're glad? That's just terrible

Yes Tevinter, the nation that once ruled the continent, is considered a powerhouse. Not so much now, but that doesn't change the past.

 

It's the humans fault that city Elves call themselves elves? 

 

Well, some don't. Some Dalish clans are practically bandits. 

 

No, the Dalish treat Dalish elves better than humans do. Humans treat non-Dalish elves better than Dalish do. That's just messed up no matter how you slice it. 

 

Don't put words in my mouth. I said I am glad that the Arlathan CULTURE is gone if they treated elves the way the Dalish treat them if they don't conform.

 

 

City elf-blacksmith is impossible since they aren't allowed to have important jobs
Now, Dalish have their own blacksmiths and even unuque styles of smithing

Fine, so they'll turn away a skilled Elven Rogue, since we know those exist, if they don't conform and become one of the Dalish?

[Pirate Queen Isabela]

I don't get it either. This is like blaming the victim of bullying for being bullied because they don't transfer schools or something. 

 

Yeah, I liked Velanna much more than Anders. Which in a way means I'm glad she didn't do what Anders did like Bioware thought about for a bit.

 

Yeah, it's believable she would do it but I'm glad she didn't. I still would have loved an arc featuring her, the Deep roads would have been so much more better with the characters from Awakening there. 

 

I can't believe nonsense-blaming I am seeing. City elves live like rats and are treated like **** by humans and that's somehow is the Dalish elves' fault?

The Dalish do not expect the city elves to join them. They give them a choice and do not understand how they can live alongside people who abuse them.
Neither do I

 

When did I blame the Dalish for the treatment of the City Elves? 

 

Dalish have it so much better than City Elves and then spit in their faces and call them weak for residing with Humans, where do you think City Elves can go? Either side have strong negative feelings for them, they are abused and denied weapons, denied education. Dalish-born and raised Elves don't understand because they can't understand, they don't know what City Elves go through. 

 

"They give them a choice!!!" Yeah, I'm sure the C.E wanna run in the forest with Elves who think they are superior and look down upon them. If Dalish are so inclined to think lowly of the C.E then why should C.E believe they are so better off? 

 

"Prove to be worthy of respect!" 

 

Weh, weh, City Elves need to EARN their place!! Yeah, many of them don't know how to arm themselves and get abused time and time again and are denied any education or rights a normal citizen should have but STILL!!!

 

[Chari]

Yes Tevinter, the nation that once ruled the continent, is considered a powerhouse. Not so much now, but that doesn't change the past.

It's the humans fault that city Elves call themselves elves?

Well, some don't. Some Dalish clans are practically bandits.

No, the Dalish treat Dalish elves better than humans do. Humans treat non-Dalish elves better than Dalish do. That's just messed up no matter how you slice it.

Don't put words in my mouth. I said I am glad that the Arlathan CULTURE is gone if they treated elves the way the Dalish treat them if they don't conform.


Fine, so they'll turn away a skilled Elven Rogue, since we know those exist, if they don't conform and become one of the Dalish.

Doesn't change a thing

Human fault is not letting elves go

Proof?

If you first don't respect yourself and don't stand for yourself, no one will. Start doing something or continue rotting in the worst part of the city. It is your choice

And that's how it was destroyed like it or not

Hahah. Funny. The Dalish are one of the best archers - a.k.a. rogues - in the Thedas. Unless you meant thieves... And Dalish despise thieves

[Pirate Queen Isabela]

Doesn't change a thing

Human fault is not letting elves go

Proof?

If you first don't respect yourself and don't stand for yourself, no one will. Start doing something or continue rotting in the worst part of the city. It is your choice

And that's how it was destroyed like it or not

Hahah. Funny. The Dalish are one of the best archers - a.k.a. rogues - in the Thedas. Unless you meant thieves... And Dalish despise thieves

 

Oh, boy.

[AventuroLegendary]

I was so disappointed with the Dalish PC's involvement in the Alienage quest. It could have proven interesting with added Dalish-CE tension. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

If you first don't respect yourself and don't stand for yourself, no one will. Start doing something or continue rotting in the worst part of the city. It is your choice

I respect myself and have still been treated like s***, so this is nonsense.

[Pirate Queen Isabela]

I was so disappointed with the Dalish PC's involvement in the Alienage quest. It could have proven interesting with added Dalish-CE tension. 

 

I would have loved that. 

 

Is there anything when the CE visits the Dalish to help with the Werewolf problem? I never played CE that far. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I would have loved that. 

 

Is there anything when the CE visits the Dalish to help with the Werewolf problem? I never played CE that far. 

Something along the lines of "You may be one of the Elvhen, but you are not one of The People."

[Chari]

When did I blame the Dalish for the treatment of the City Elves?

Dalish have it so much better than City Elves and then spit in their faces and call them weak for residing with Humans, where do you think City Elves can go? Either side have strong negative feelings for them, they are abused and denied weapons, denied education. Dalish-born and raised Elves don't understand because they can't understand, they don't know what City Elves go through.

"They give them a choice!!!" Yeah, I'm sure the C.E wanna run in the forest with Elves who think they are superior and look down upon them. If Dalish are so inclined to think lowly of the C.E then why should C.E believe they are so better off?

"Prove to be worthy of respect!"

Weh, weh, City Elves need to EARN their place!! Yeah, many of them don't know how to arm themselves and get abused time and time again and are denied any education or rights a normal citizen should have but STILL!!!

Then don't say Dalish are bad for living a better life. They earned it through hard work and lots of losses

No one spit in no one's face. In Dalish eyes city elves bow to humans. And that's exactly what happens. Dalish elves' ancestors also were slaves whose home was destroyed. But they chose to fight rather than submit. They chose freedom over servitude

Hah. It seems to me that Pol and Lanaya fare just fine. A bit of distrust natural to anyone who deals with unknown and voila - Lanaya is the Keeper and Pol is... Dead. Mostly due to his own fault

Oh, it's so easy to judge the situation is while living in the 21th century. Let's go to humans and tell them of civil right equality and... Lol, seriously? If you think that one can get everything easily, then you're mistaken. No one will respect you for being you. No one owns you anything. If you live in a society you have duties, if you don't do them you become but a burden. Regardless of the society: human, elven, dwarven or qunari. No one wants to deal with someone who is incapable of taking care of themselves
You gotta prove yourself before anyone start taking you seriously
C'est la vie

[Chari]

I respect myself and have still been treated like s***, so this is nonsense.

Choose your enemies wisely. If it is obvious they are too strong - leave

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Choose your enemies wisely. If it is obvious they are too strong - leave

I didn't have any choice since everyone acted the same, same as how everyone in Thedas acts about the City Elves. 

 

Humans: Treat them like dirt.

Dalish: Treat them like dirt unless they abandon their identity and conform.

 

Ooh, so many choices. As I said, if we get to decide the City Elves future in DAI I'm hoping for Option C: Create their own society. 

[AventuroLegendary]

 

Oh, it's so easy to judge the situation is while living in the 21th century. 

.....
You gotta prove yourself before anyone start taking you seriously
 

 

You should follow your own sentiment. It's kind of hard to "prove yourself" when you're given little opportunity to do so by your overlords.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

 

 

You should follow your own sentiment. It's kind of hard to "prove yourself" when your given little opportunity to do so by your overlords.

 

Yeah. Any time a City Elf tries to assert themselves, they end up killed or worse. If they try it in numbers, they are purged. 

[jlb524]

You gotta prove yourself before anyone start taking you seriously
 

 

City elf Warden ends Blight and saves Thedas!

 

nothing changes for city elves

[Chari]

I didn't have any choice since everyone acted the same, same as how everyone in Thedas acts about the City Elves. 

 

Humans: Treat them like dirt.

Dalish: Treat them like dirt unless they abandon their identity and conform.

 

Ooh, so many choices. As I said, if we get to decide the City Elves future in DAI I'm hoping for Option C: Create their own society. 

City elves have no identity. They're children of people who gave up trying to create their own society and decided that fighting or avoiding humans was too difficult

Unless you see living in a dump, with rats, rabid dogs without any rights and under watch of abusive humans an identity...

 

City elf Warden ends Blight and saves Thedas!

 

nothing changes for city elves

The Warden earns respect. But as a Warden. Not as an elf. once you're Warden, your past does not matter anymore

Besides, the Blight touched only slightly Fereldan. Most countries didn't even know about it until it was stopped

 

 

You should follow your own sentiment. It's kind of hard to "prove yourself" when you're given little opportunity to do so by your overlords.

Then leave. Leave and never return. Dalish may not trust the city elves, but they do give them chance to become a part of their family. It won't be easy, but it will be better than living in society which doesn't give you any rights just because you have pointy ears

[The Night Haunter]

@Chari,

I'm guessing you didn't read Masked Empire. It quite clearly shows the differences between Dalish and City elves, and gives coherent reasons why the city elves don't (and shouldn't) mass migrate to the Dalish.

 

As for your earlier posts about all elves being equal(ish) - here is one of my favorite quotes: "Then tell me, da'len, who scrubbed the floors?"

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Something along the lines of "You may be one of the Elvhen, but you are not one of The People."

 

Doesn't Elvhen literally translate to the People?