I'd rather be in the Circle than be a Grey Warden. Besides likely meta-gaming to get Bethany in the Circle, I think a good story has tragic elements. I really like Bethany but still doomed her to the fate of the wardens for the story.
I think losing your entire family and having a bunch of loonies as your only love interests is enough heartbreak for hawke. There is only so much an person can take.
I'd rather be in the Circle than be a Grey Warden. Besides likely meta-gaming to get Bethany in the Circle, I think a good story has tragic elements. I really like Bethany but still doomed her to the fate of the wardens for the story.
That's true, though I didn't really need to metagame her into the Circle either. I didn't know what would happen to Bethany when I first played, but I heeded to Leandra's wishes with her because she's not a warrior, and Anders is my Grey Warden mage to come in her stead (aside from the fact that I typically only have one mage per group, unless Hawke is a mage as well).
That's true, though I didn't really need to metagame her into the Circle either. I didn't know what would happen to Bethany when I first played, but I heeded to Leandra's wishes with her because she's not a warrior, and Anders is my Grey Warden mage to come in her stead (aside from the fact that I typically only have one mage per group, unless Hawke is a mage as well).
That's what I did as well, for both siblings. To date, the only time I meta-gamed their fates was in bringing them along at all.
Hm. I guess I have to admit I liked Bethany more as the story and person. I can appreciate Carver as a character, but I think Bethany works better in terms of both rivaly (in which Hawke can, reasonably, be a bit resentful of their life being driven around Bethany) and friendship (in which Hawke can be just that, but still love the sibling). Either route makes sense. Of course, Bethany borderlines Purity Sue at some points: capable and loved by just about everyone, and without a bad bone in her body. The worst she gets is some passive-agressive resentment in the Wardens.
Carver is harder. The rivalry makes sense, even if it's not particularly enjoyable (since he comes off as more petulant than reasonable to a reasonable Hawke), but the friendship doesn't even work well for me. An anti-mage freedom mage Hawke is one of the most immersion-breaking things for me, since there seems to be so little reason to express such views and yet not turn one's self into the Templars. Well, unless you want the hypocrisy card, which I don't as much.
That said, Bethany dies in my 'canon' Hawke playthrough, a tragic and crushing failure for an extremely imperfect person. The guilt over the death of the only person who gave unconditional love and affection, something he doesn't even feel from his own mother? Character-defining.
My Mage-Hawke playthrough will have Carver as a templar, and almost certainly rivaled.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Carver is harder. The rivalry makes sense, even if it's not particularly enjoyable (since he comes off as more petulant than reasonable to a reasonable Hawke), but the friendship doesn't even work well for me. An anti-mage freedom mage Hawke is one of the most immersion-breaking things for me, since there seems to be so little reason to express such views and yet not turn one's self into the Templars. Well, unless you want the hypocrisy card, which I don't as much.
It need not be anti-mage. It's more of an advocacy of discipline and education. Any competent mage should be fed up with most of the mages in Kirkwall. In addition to Anders and Merrill (although rivalry Merrill finally does come around). One might be sympathetic to the idea of "freedom" in principle, but when so many failures and disgraces are set before you, you might want to be a hardass eventually.
The mages crumble too easily. They literally "suck" as mages. No skill, little willpower, little discipline, and much hubris. The only strong mage you run into - and he does most of it on his own if you give him space - is Feynriel (although Bethany and Marethari qualify as competent too). He learns to master an extremely dangerous burden. If you were his teacher, and he a student, he'd be the one moment of pride. Every other mage uses pisspoor excuses to fall into a demon's control. "The Templars made me do it!"
I can almost admire the worst of them though. Tarohne. At least she admits she went after demons willingly and didn't beg them like some poor "waif". It's stupidity, but at least she doesn't make excuses.
An anti-mage freedom mage Hawke is one of the most immersion-breaking things for me, since there seems to be so little reason to express such views and yet not turn one's self into the Templars.
No? That's my favorite Hawke to date.
Well not anti-freedom, mind you, just pro-Order. When Anders asks if not all mages deserve the freedom he enjoyed, the answer would be a resounding "No!!" -- not all mages are like him. Hawke has mastered his talents by a legitimate source (ex-Circle mage father), does not abuse them ala Blood Magic, and uses them to generally pro-social acts. Mages like him and Bethany deserve that freedom. Mages that fall short of these standards, however...
Only decision I made short of Carver's friendship is sending Feynriel to the Dalish, whom Hawke tries to mentor to his "ideal" of mages.
*edit* WOW!! StreetMagic and I are twins, apparently.
No? That's my favorite Hawke to date.
Well not anti-freedom, mind you, just pro-Order. When Anders asks if not all mages deserve the freedom he enjoyed, the answer would be a resounding "No!!" -- not all mages are like him. Hawke has mastered his talents by a legitimate source (ex-Circle mage father), does not abuse them ala Blood Magic, and uses them to generally pro-social acts. Mages like him and Bethany deserve that freedom. Mages that fall short of these standards, however...
Only decision I made short of Carver's friendship is sending Feynriel to the Dalish, whom Hawke tries to mentor to his "ideal" of mages.
*edit* WOW!! StreetMagic and I are twins, apparently.
Ah, I see. Personal responsibility, rather than universal liberation. A sort of 'I know I can be trusted, but don't trust you' sort of thing?
Hm. That could work- that could work pretty well indeed. Not necessarily in an agreeable way: it begs the question of 'who are you to make that judgement,' with the answer of 'I'm Hawke and I'm better than you' not necessarily being pleasing to the ear. But still viable.
My mage-Hawke is... not going to be an ideal mage by anyone's standards. She'd be mercenary and ambitious in her own right: I totally see her rival-mancing Sebastian in hopes of getting to be a princess of Starkhaven- her 'plan' for getting out of Kirkwall.
Finding love (and morality) along the way would be an unexpected bonus.
Not the best person- but then, I find the idea of character development an appealing one. She'll be my 'Hawke sided with the mages' carry-over.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Hm. That could work- that could work pretty well indeed. Not necessarily in an agreeable way: it begs the question of 'who are you to make that judgement,' with the answer of 'I'm Hawke and I'm better than you' not necessarily being pleasing to the ear. But still viable.
I don't want to simply say "I'm Hawke". More like we're given a character with the maturity and ability of a First Enchanter. One better qualified than Orsino at least. It's only fair to think like one somewhat.
I did find a few moments of hypocrisy in playing a Pro-Templar Mage Hawke, but for the most part it worked. He had the aggressive personality and I imagined him as someone who had his father repeatedly drill in the importance of discipline and resistance to temptation, as such he grew to value order and responsibility most of all. But most of the questionable dialogue was with Anders and such. Carver himself was pretty straightforward. Carver's friendship is mainly earned by treating with respect and showing no mercy to people who probably deserve none. Kirkwall has no shortage of those, mages or mundanes. One thing he really likes is bringing Fenris to the Tevinter slaver to torture Faeynriel's location out of him and then killing him anyway when he begs for mercy. Bringing him on the expedition to the Deep Roads and making him a Warden is also a big boost because it shows you believe in him.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I can still be friendly with Anders, but keep emphasizing self-control. In a way, that's what the Friendly path is about. Not condemnation, but just that Anders is sick and needs help. You might even say he had good intentions with Justice. It's like... my Hawke want to believe Anders is one of the strong mages. He knew the hero of ferelden, after all. He's a warden. He's supposed to be a badass.. but that eventually turns out wrong. And Anders eventually uses your good will in trying to help cure him as a way to blow up the chantry.
At least, this is how I felt when I first played. He really fooled me. Merrill turns out to be the better mage.
I can still be friendly with Anders, but keep emphasizing self-control. In a way, that's what the Friendly path is about. Not condemnation, but just that Anders is sick and needs help. You might even say he had good intentions with Justice. It's like... my Hawke want to believe Anders is one of the strong mages. He knew the hero of ferelden, after all. He's a warden. He's supposed to be a badass.. but that eventually turns out wrong. And Anders eventually uses your good will in trying to help cure him as a way to blow up the chantry.
At least, this is how I felt when I first played. He really fooled me. Merrill turns out to be the better mage.
Yeah, Anders is a hypocritical, self-centered mage. He can talk about mage rights but if it doesn't directly include him, he doesn't even care about it. He barely educates himself on Elf-Mages or Qunari-Mages. 
My main Hawke was pro-Mage freedom but I loved playing a pro-Mage Chantry Warden and Hawke, too. Love the clashes with Morrigan and Merrill.
Carver, for sure. I just felt like he had a better redemption arc.
Bethany, just wish she wasn't underdeveloped
.
Carver!He felt more "real" to me for some reason...
I like them about equal.
Strangely, the thing I like about Carver is his constant desire and moaning to be his own man and to get out of his brother's shadow, but I get the feeling that he puts himself into his brother's shadow because his sense of duty to his family is so strong that he can't help but act in line with it. Well, I kind of got that impression in a dialogue with Varic where Carver goes out of his way to let Varric know he's not interested in being the star of any of his stories, and then gets jealous when Varric says he's not worth making the main attraction.
He wants things one way, and gripes about it when he's being told he's getting it. He seems to live to complain because he doesn't know what else to do. I know if I knew him in real life I would probably get annoyed really fast, especially that he's never seems satisfied with anything, he has to whine about every situation they end up in. But I love the dynamic he offers to Hawke and how he develops as a Warden or a Templar.
My Hawke left Carver behind because he wanted a few weeks of peace without hearing him whine about every little thing or every decision Hawke makes.
I love how sarcastic Bethany can be, I love her attitude, her sunny disposition gives my Hawke something worth fighting for and I was surprised at how vindictive she can be as a Warden, although I shouldn't have been since I saw elements of that side of her when it comes to Gamlen. She is a loving person, and is far more willing to see the brighter side of things than Carver, who could only focus on the negative.
I can see why some people would prefer one over the other, they are polar opposites in personality, but I love the relationship my Hawke can have with both.
Bethany, just wish she wasn't underdeveloped
She's not underdeveloped when Varric first tells the story... 
I don't want to simply say "I'm Hawke". More like we're given a character with the maturity and ability of a First Enchanter. One better qualified than Orsino at least. It's only fair to think like one somewhat.
Yeah, even Fenris acknowledges that Hawke is not the kind of mage to worry about.
Granted, the validity of that statement may vary, given Hawke's ability to: be a blood-mage, make Orana his/her slave, sell out Fenris....
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Yeah, even Fenris acknowledges that Hawke is not the kind of mage to worry about.
Granted, the validity of that statement may vary, given Hawke's ability to: be a blood-mage, make Orana his/her slave, sell out Fenris....
At least the latter two give big rivalry points with him. In which case, he doesn't see you in a good light.
The whole "blood mage" thing is a big fail. I'm glad they're taking it out in DAI. It seems that they can't accurately reflect it in the story.
I wish a mage Hawke could keep Bethany alive. We get no hint of their relationship besides a brief codex entry about Bethany admiring her elder sibling's grasp of magic. It would've been a welcome dynamic to have the two mage siblings in Act 1.
I just really didn't like Carver both personally and regarding his influence on the story compared to Bethany. I actually felt sad when Bethany became a warden because the siblings were so close. Carver has just been looking for an excuse to get away while Bethany would love to have stayed with family, but it wasn't meant to be. It was even sadder knowing that even if Bethany wanted to go AWOL like Anders she couldn't because apparently there were "complications" from her ritual that has made it require more rituals to keep the taint in her body from killing her.
mmm tough question i more like carver because hes was still growing and learning even though he was being himself xD
hes kewl that he is a heavy hitter xD
but bethany has a kind heart and is a nice person and basicly liked her because of personality ![=]](https://lvlt.forum.bioware.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sideways.png)
verdict--bethany alittle more xD
I like them both, but I usually play as a mage and get Carver alot. I would have liked it if there'd been an option to be a mage and still keep Bethany, the Hawke apostate siblings would have been fun to play. I prefer Circle Bethany and Warden Carver. I've never done any playthrough with Warden Bethany though.
I always bring my Hawke's sibling when I can. I like the fact that they're not just a companion, they're somebody who's family and who's grown up with Hawke and just knows them through and through, good sides and bad sides.
Bethany. I liked how the appearance changed based on my customisation options. My Bethany was better looking then any of the love options in the game so i was kicking myself that it was my sister. FYI in the future Bioware please for the love of god don't make the best looking character in the game your sister. lol I didn't like Carver at all. The whole moody love hate relationship thing really weared thin very quickly. Better a loving sister then an ass of a brother in my opinion.
Retour en haut