91 réponses à ce sujet

[LunarMists]

Am I the only one who believes//hopes that Cole is not a companion?? Let's look that the facts here.

 

1. Cole is a Spirit.

2. When Cole was alive he was a mage

3. The picture that everyone keeps referring to that shows an unknown male...looks to be a dual weaponed rouge.

 

Now, personally I didn't mind Cole as a character in Asunder, but I really don't think that he's a companion. I keep seeing all the stuff on the BSN that points towards a lot of people believing that Cole is in fact one of our companions in the game. Was this ever confirmed by the Devs or is this just speculation?

[dragondreamer]

1. So was Justice. 

2. The Cole in question was never human or a mage.  The boy whose identity he imprinted was a mage.

3. Cole from Asunder is a dagger-wielding rogue.

 

Cole isn't confirmed, but it would be shocking if the blonde shaggy haired rogue in the trailer wasn't Cole, who is a blonde shaggy haired rogue.    Cole was also mentioned to be a rogue companion in the old survey which has been remarkably accurate so far.

[LunarMists]

1. So was Justice. 

2. The Cole in question was never human or a mage.  The boy whose identity he imprinted was a mage.

3. Cole from Asunder is a dagger-wielding rogue.

 

Cole isn't confirmed, but it would be shocking if the blonde shaggy haired rogue in the trailer wasn't Cole, who is a blonde shaggy haired rogue.    Cole was also mentioned to be a rogue companion in the old survey which has been remarkably accurate so far.

1. Point. However, I'd be a bit disappointed if he was another spirit that possessed a dead body...or even possessed a person. I'd really rather not see another Justice/Anders type thing.

2. He used blood magic to keep people from remembering him or even noticing him. This would suggest he's either a mage or a demon as no one else but a mage can use blood magic.

3. He had a dagger but it wasn't actually confirmed that he was a rouge.

[SnakeCode]

From what we know about Cole I do believe the blond male at the companion table is him. We know cole is a young man with shaggy blond hair, who in asunder wields a dagger as his weapon of choice. Also wasn't Cole listed as a companion in the leak from way back? The same leak that has turned out to be true almost without exception?

 

I do think Cole will be a companion. I'm not exactly thrilled about it either to tell the truth. I wouldn't trust Cole as far as I could throw him tbh. Whilst I enjoyed the character I would be lying if I said that I liked him. I felt pity for him (the real Cole, that is, the demon/spirit thing not so much.) I can't see him being one of my most used companions (if he does end up being one) but if he is to be a companion I hope he has an interesting story arc.

[Omikuji]

On the back of the Asunder book, there is a picture of 'Cole' with that same sort of hairstyle and pout going on, and he is described as a human male in his late twentiesish with blonde hair over his face. He probably changed clothing since the book as well, but it was described as him wearing mages leathers and his baby cape reminds me very much of how the baby capes in DAO looked. Though that's stretching and I have no idea what it means to have 'mage style leathers' on.

EDIT: Ah hah, taken from the lovely post of Faerah from the Cole disscussion thread:

If that is not Cole hair I do not know who that could be.

 

 

Cole moves like a rouge where he sneaks in the shadows, spying on people, and opening doors with things he steals. I think that classes him fairly close to that of a theify/rouge role. 

 

Either he uses magic or just something because the way Rhys describes feeling Coles magic is really weird compared to the rest of the magic in the book. But again he's probably some really questionable spirit that doesn't 'feel' like a demon or spirit to the spirit healers or those who study it.

 

We've always had some sort of 'spirit' creature on our team, generally possessing a body. But Cole isn't a possessed body, he's a spirit that had convinced himself he was 'Cole' and the memories of Cole over took him completely becoming Cole. So he's something completely different to Anders or Wynne or even Justice. 

 

To much points to it being Cole from Asunder, he looks too much like him and has been said by a dev that an Asunder character is taking part in the game (I remember it being said way back when it was as a companion, then at Pax recently it was just that they where taking part in the story backpeddleing). That and the survey has been rather on the nose when it came to the companions, other things on it was clearly false and changed except for the companions. 

[LunarMists]

Honestly, I do hope his story arc is interesting if it is him, but I would prefer someone else...not a strange, spirit/demon that uses blood magic and wield's daggers. If he is a companion I can't really see myself having him on my team much, but I'll atleast try and get to know him beyond what happens in Asunder, but I don't think my Inquisitor is going to truest him much either. I didn't hugely like him, but I did think he was interesting, if a bit confusing.

[dragondreamer]

1. Point. However, I'd be a bit disappointed if he was another spirit that possessed a dead body...or even possessed a person. I'd really rather not see another Justice/Anders type thing.

2. He used blood magic to keep people from remembering him or even noticing him. This would suggest he's either a mage or a demon as no one else but a mage can use blood magic.

3. He had a dagger but it wasn't actually confirmed that he was a rouge.

 

1. He appears to be manifesting his own body, so it isn't a possession situation.

2. Demons/spirits can use blood magic, that's a thing.  I'd say the proper definition for Cole is probably demon.  

3. In Asunder he only fights with a dagger and he's fast and he literally can stealth disappear.  And the old survey called him a rogue.  So... 

[Omikuji]

We don't know a thing about the other characters and what sort of stories they have in store, while Cole has the advantage of already having his background sort of established in the book. But certainly not enough to actually know who he is or what he is, if anything the book ended with more questions about Cole then ever answering them, and we don't even know what sort of person he actually is going to be in Inquisition because of the reveal to him at the end opening his eyes.

 

Cole being a grey spirit who is trying to find his place in the world could be in comparison the most normal storyline from what we know so far.For all we know, Solas could be a time traveling elf who is from the age of immortal elves and awoken in this time to help out the inquisitor through the aid of that one trickster wolf elf god thing. Because the lands of Solas was named after him on the map. Totally from my bum but they could go that way if they wanted to, those silly Bioware writers.

[SnakeCode]

I think Cole is closer to a demon than a spirit (provided they don't turn out to be the same thing.) Lambert uses the Litany of Adralla to make him appear, with success. The Litany is described as having the power to stun demons.

[KirstyLionheart]

I don't understand how he isn't trustworthy. If you go out of your way to become enemies with him somehow, sure. But the same could be said about all other characters being unpredictable and untrustworthy under such circumstances. However if you befriend Cole, perhaps, or even if just give him some time or just overstep the acquaintance/friend barrier, he's completely trustworthy in my opinion. I think he proved loyalty was a strong point of his in Asunder with Rhys, and even Evangeline (who he wasn't even really close with). I mean.. he fought tooth and nail to protect Rhys - purely because he was his friend and gave him time when no one else did. I think this is enough proof.

What other reason would you have to not trust him, may I ask?

[SnakeCode]

Probably because he goes around murdering people out of his twisted idea of mercy? Or maybe because he also kills people out of fear that he's going to disappear? Or maybe because he has shown to be affected by the Litany of Adralla, which is supposed to dispel mind control and stun demons?

 

Tell me, have we met a trustworthy demon in either game yet?

 

I'm not saying he isn't  trustworthy, but let's not pretend that he hasn't given us any reasons to not be cautious either.

[mikeymoonshine]

It almost certainly is Cole. 

 

He may be a rogue but that doesn't mean he can't have magical abilities, after all companions could have their own specific skill trees again. A slightly magical rogue companion might actually be quite interesting or he could just be a  normal rogue. 

 

Anyway I liked Wynn and I liked Justice. It was only the Anders/Justice combo companion who irritated me so I am not too worried about cole now I have had time to think about it. 

[Omikuji]

If it counts for anything, those who asked for death, practically begged for it, have been traumatized to the point of near/in madness. Cole eventually learns that his method of killing people is wrong, and stops it when Rhys tells him that's bad. So it's not like he keeps doing it throughout the book, he learns and changes to not mercy killing people.

 

We have had -actual- assassins on the team before, a man who has murdered children, pretty much a terrorist, someone who starts really bad tensions with a war race by being selfish and stealing a book, etc. Really, Cole has one of the smaller body counts and has shown just in the book he's capable of being much more loyal then most of the other characters had been through the games.

 

Just because the book effected him, doesn't automatically make him a demon when he was not sensed as one by a number of more trustworthy characters compared to Lambert. There is something weird with Cole and that was never answered as to what. Even at the end he only mentions there was a Cole and he was there till the end with him and felt horrible for being unable to help him, but that's completely out of character for a demon to do.

[SnakeCode]

I agree, however I never said I wouldn't be cautious around the likes of Sten, Morrigan, and Shale (who actually contemplates squishing you right to your face) either. I roleplay my characters accordingly. 

 

I said I wouldn't be trusting towards Cole. That doesn't mean he couldn't earn my trust.

 

About Cole stopping killing at Rhys's command though, I got the impression that he did that so he wouldn't lose Rhys's friendship (and risk being all alone again) rather than because he learned that it was wrong.

[KirstyLionheart]

Probably because he goes around murdering people out of his twisted idea of mercy? Or maybe because he also kills people out of fear that he's going to disappear? Or maybe because he has shown to be affected by the Litany of Adralla, which is supposed to dispel mind control and stun demons?

 

Tell me, have we met a trustworthy demon in either game yet?

 

I'm not saying he isn't  trustworthy, but let's not pretend that he hasn't given us any reasons to not be cautious either.

Erm ok.. completely missed my entire point. Did you miss the whole paragraph where I pointed out that friendship makes him a different and trustworthy person? Did you not see a great deal of loyalty from him and a huge change in morals and behaviour and growth as a character and human?? Do you not think every character has it in them to break our trust? We just know Cole's backstory already. Every little dark, deep secret. And I'm betting you we'll find out some craaaaazy dark things about our other companions and their pasts. Just like Fenris and Isabela etc.
And yeah, murder is murder. But he harboured  deep, painful, tragic memories of an imprisoned forgotten mage. He knew what crap they faced. Murder is never right, but he was a confused, lost soul who thought he was being merciful and thought he was disappearing. He didn't know what he was.

 

And to answer your question regarding demons.. Cole isn't just your average demon. He's clearly something a lot more complex and misunderstood. He shows multiple displays of genuine human emotions in response to his memories he feels are his own. I think that's a bit different to the whole Wynne and Anders situation.

But no matter what I say, what other people say.. there are always going to be differing opinions on Cole. He was written absolutely beautifully and is the constant subject of debate and controversy.. which I'm sure Gaider loves (and hoped for). You continue to dislike him for whatever reasons you wish, just as I'll continue to like him for my reasons too. Some people take pity on the weak and lost, want to take their hand and help them. Then there are people who exploit and feast on the weak and the very reasons they are weak to make them weaker. Everyone is different. Everyone loved Isabela. I hated her.

[SnakeCode]

Erm ok.. completely missed my entire point. Did you miss the whole paragraph where I pointed out that friendship makes him a different and trustworthy person? Did you not see a great deal of loyalty from him and a huge change in morals and behaviour and growth as a character and human?? Do you not think every character has it in them to break our trust? We just know Cole's backstory already. Every little dark, deep secret. And I'm betting you we'll find out some craaaaazy dark things about our other companions and their pasts. Just like Fenris and Isabela etc.
And yeah, murder is murder. But he harboured  deep, painful, tragic memories of an imprisoned forgotten mage. He knew what crap they faced. Murder is never right, but he was a confused, lost soul who thought he was being merciful and thought he was disappearing. He didn't know what he was.

 

And to answer your question regarding demons.. Cole isn't just your average demon. He's clearly something a lot more complex and misunderstood. He shows multiple displays of genuine human emotions in response to his memories he feels are his own. I think that's a bit different to the whole Wynne and Anders situation.

But no matter what I say, what other people say.. there are always going to be differing opinions on Cole. He was written absolutely beautifully and is the constant subject of debate and controversy.. which I'm sure Gaider loves (and hoped for). You continue to dislike him for whatever reasons you wish, just as I'll continue to like him for my reasons too. Some people take pity on the weak and lost, want to take their hand and help them. Then there are people who exploit and feast on the weak and the very reasons they are weak to make them weaker. Everyone is different. Everyone loved Isabela. I hated her.

 

He's shown loyalty to Rhys, and no one else (I'd argue that the reason he helps other characters throughout the novel are a bi-product of them being important to Rhys, rather than any feelings Cole has towards them.) He's shown to be extremely loyal to him. It doesn't automatically mean he will be bff's with anyone who will give him the time of day.

 

Also I really would really appreciate it if you wouldn't put words into my mouth. I have never said that I dislike him. I said that I didn't trust him. I know that I said "I'd be lying if I said I liked him" which is the truth, but that doesn't mean that I dislike him, i'm more in the middle. Somewhat unsure and definitely cautious of him.

 

If you want an example of a character that I really dislike then try Anders and Ser Otto Alrik on for size.

 

 

 

Edit- Sorry, not sure what happened here. My reply is in the quote box for some reason.

[MisterJB]

I don't understand how he isn't trustworthy. If you go out of your way to become enemies with him somehow, sure. But the same could be said about all other characters being unpredictable and untrustworthy under such circumstances. However if you befriend Cole, perhaps, or even if just give him some time or just overstep the acquaintance/friend barrier, he's completely trustworthy in my opinion. I think he proved loyalty was a strong point of his in Asunder with Rhys, and even Evangeline (who he wasn't even really close with). I mean.. he fought tooth and nail to protect Rhys - purely because he was his friend and gave him time when no one else did. I think this is enough proof.

What other reason would you have to not trust him, may I ask?

 

In the final chapter, Rhys acknowledges the very real possibility that Cole was using blood magic to force him to commit his mercy killings suggesting that Cole is capable of mind controlling others without meaning to or even realizing that he is doing so.
 

[Omikuji]

In the final chapter, Rhys acknowledges the very real possibility that Cole was using blood magic to force him to commit his mercy killings suggesting that Cole is capable of mind controlling others without meaning to or even realizing that he is doing so.
 

That's Rhys point of view though, and as the reader has an advantage we know that Cole never mind controlled Rhys into anything. And that never made sense to begin with the idea that Rhys was committing the murders when the murders start happening when Rhys stops visiting Cole and Cole never went looking for Rhys during that time. Lambert put the idea in Rhys head, but it conflicts with what the readers have seen and I really don't think Gaider had Cole as an unreliable view point when he wrote his chapters. If anything Coles chapters where always very clear.

 

Rhys had a reason to fret, though a flimsy one because that would mean he believes Lamberts words when Lambert already had tried to manipulate Rhys before.

 

I agree, however I never said I wouldn't be cautious around the likes of Sten, Morrigan, and Shale (who actually contemplates squishing you right to your face) either. I roleplay my characters accordingly. 

 

I said I wouldn't be trusting towards Cole. That doesn't mean he couldn't earn my trust.

 

Unless you're metaing the information, and depending on how Cole is introduced into the game (If he's anything like how he first meets Rhys) then role play wise he's very shy and quiet. Unless you run into him stabbing a person, but we don't know how we meet him yet.

[Solas]

Am I the only one who believes//hopes that Cole is not a companion?? Let's look that the facts here.

 

1. Cole is a Spirit.

2. When Cole was alive he was a mage

3. The picture that everyone keeps referring to that shows an unknown male...looks to be a dual weaponed rouge.

 

Now, personally I didn't mind Cole as a character in Asunder, but I really don't think that he's a companion. I keep seeing all the stuff on the BSN that points towards a lot of people believing that Cole is in fact one of our companions in the game. Was this ever confirmed by the Devs or is this just speculation?

We're not sure what he is. Spirit, corrupted spirit, demon, demon that was going the opposite way (never mind the fact that we're not sure if spirits and demons are the same or different things), or something else from the Fade that we haven't heard of yet. We only know for sure that he's some kind of Fade creature. As for "3. He had a dagger but it wasn't actually confirmed that he was a rouge." he fights with a dagger, relies on stealth/surprise/subterfuge and wears leathers in Asunder.  As for the Litany I always thought it just dispelled the blood magic he was unconsciously using, not stunned the 'demon'.

[SnakeCode]

That's a good point. However he is VERY socially awkward, skittish and apprehensive. Not to mention armed, I think that's a good enough reason to keep him at arms length to begin with.

[MisterJB]

 

That's Rhys point of view though, and as the reader has an advantage we know that Cole never mind controlled Rhys into anything. And that never made sense to begin with the idea that Rhys was committing the murders when the murders start happening when Rhys stops visiting Cole and Cole never went looking for Rhys during that time. Lambert put the idea in Rhys head, but it conflicts with what the readers have seen and I really don't think Gaider had Cole as an unreliable view point when he wrote his chapters. If anything Coles chapters where always very clear.

 

Rhys had a reason to fret, though a flimsy one because that would mean he believes Lamberts words when Lambert already had tried to manipulate Rhys before.

Lambert had some very good points such as the fact that the murders only began after Rhys contacted Cole, not after he stopped visiting (page 363) and how only if Cole was possessing or controlling a mage could he have used blood magic.

The truth is that Cole's mind is a complete mess; his POV is not entirely reliable if, up until the very last moment, he couldn't even distinguish his toughts and past from those of the original Cole. It's entirely possible Cole mind controlled Rhys into murdering those people without even understanding he was doing so and thinking it was him wielding the knife all along.

[Divine Justinia V]

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that it's Cole.

[Omikuji]

Lambert had some very good points such as the fact that the murders only began after Rhys contacted Cole, not after he stopped visiting (page 363) and how only if Cole was possessing or controlling a mage could he have used blood magic.

The truth is that Cole's mind is a complete mess; his POV is not entirely reliable if, up until the very last moment, he couldn't even distinguish his toughts and past from those of the original Cole. It's entirely possible Cole mind controlled Rhys into murdering those people without even understanding he was doing so and thinking it was him wielding the knife all along.

Yeah but Lambert is also a really unreliable person who has a question mark over him as well. They both have no idea what Cole was doing, Lambert was just putting words into Rhys' mouth and putting his theories there which all seem to be 'MAGES CORRUPTED BAD' no matter what. 

 

My theory is that something happens behind the scenes after the Kirkwall event that slowly builds up to the veil tear in Inquisition (which takes place a yearish after Asunder if I saw the dates right) and started to effect Cole as well. Cole only started to feel restless after the event happened and Rhys was pulled away from him, and feeling more alone Cole may have been more subjected to whatever was going on unconsciously. That is entirely theory CSI stuff, but it certainly doesn't make sense that Cole brainwashes Rhys to do the murders even if Cole has no understanding of his abilities at the time. Cole is fragmented and distressed, but I don't think his chapters were lies. 

 

And if Lambert was right about what he says about Cole, how come he is completely right about Cole when we have had characters like Wynne and just Rhys in general have no idea a single thing about Cole in their sensory of the demons. It's established they can sense demons, seems like any mage can; be correct? What's his deal? He can sense Cole where others couldn't? Cole senses something dark in Lambert, nearly the same as he sensed with Wynne (though he sensed simply 'something else') so what makes Lamberts words more reliable about Cole? 

 

Cole is a member of the Inquisition, he is something more then just some spirit as well because they said our companions are the best of the best of what they are. So... why would the Inquisitor just have some spirit/demon if it wasn't really important to have?

[MisterJB]

Yeah but Lambert is also a really unreliable person who has a question mark over him as well. They both have no idea what Cole was doing, Lambert was just putting words into Rhys' mouth and putting his theories there which all seem to be 'MAGES CORRUPTED BAD' no matter what. 

 

My theory is that something happens behind the scenes after the Kirkwall event that slowly builds up to the veil tear in Inquisition (which takes place a yearish after Asunder if I saw the dates right) and started to effect Cole as well. Cole only started to feel restless after the event happened and Rhys was pulled away from him, and feeling more alone Cole may have been more subjected to whatever was going on unconsciously. That is entirely theory CSI stuff, but it certainly doesn't make sense that Cole brainwashes Rhys to do the murders even if Cole has no understanding of his abilities at the time. Cole is fragmented and distressed, but I don't think his chapters were lies. 

 

And if Lambert was right about what he says about Cole, how come he is completely right about Cole when we have had characters like Wynne and just Rhys in general have no idea a single thing about Cole in their sensory of the demons. It's established they can sense demons, seems like any mage can; be correct? What's his deal? He can sense Cole where others couldn't? Cole senses something dark in Lambert, nearly the same as he sensed with Wynne (though he sensed simply 'something else') so what makes Lamberts words more reliable about Cole? 

 

Cole is a member of the Inquisition, he is something more then just some spirit as well because they said our companions are the best of the best of what they are. So... why would the Inquisitor just have some spirit/demon if it wasn't really important to have?

Lambert has a bias but that doesn't change the fact he is extremely intelligent. What he did was not "sensing" that Cole was evil. He simply put the evidence together and reached a conclusion.

The murders began only after Cole contacted Rhys; why would murdering someone connect Cole to this world? However, blood magic is known to be able to strengthen a spirit's connection to the real world. But Cole would only be able to use blood magic if he was possessing or controlling a mage.

Plus, spirits and demons often become confused when entering the material world.

 

Lambert did detective work and his assumption about Cole being from the Fade proved correct when Cole was proven to be susceptible to the Lythanny of Andralla; in the end, even Rhys conceded he was most likely right.

Could Lambert be wrong and Cole be something completely different? Yes,but Lambert hasn't been wrong so far and the evidence corroborates his theory.

 

Again, it's not that Cole is lying. He controlled Rhys without even understanding he was doing so; it was done by instinct. He fully thought he was wielding the knife.

[Omikuji]

Lambert sensed Cole in Evas room where Eva only slightly noticed when Cole made a sound. There wasn't detective work then, and he had no reason to believe anyone else would have been in there with Eva originally unless he's like that with every room he walks into. Which would be a funny image to imagine Lambert stepping into a room and then staring at the corners for five minutes each...

 

Cole only started murdering people a year after he met Rhys after the Kirkwall event like I said. It probably was blood magic/spirit/demon magic he was doing when he was feeling the 'pull' to mercy kill those people, or it could have been the spirit/demons left over remorse of being unable to help Cole having seeped in. Cole at the end of the book pulled a distressed face when he mentioned being unable to help the original Cole in the dungeon. 

 

And what if Cole hadn't actually been in the tower for that long? Cole said he didn't remember when he got there, the Ghost of the Spire rumors where never established to have been there for years considering that it didn't seem to be that common to the others. The way it's worded in the book it sounds like it could have just started up when Rhys first saw Cole in the lecture hall, Rhys had been there his whole life and had never heard about the rumors of the ghost until he saw Cole? Cole could have been there for not that long but had already quickly learnt the layout of the areas below (after all, he's not human and wouldn't have a human level of memory, and he was 'quick to learn') For all we know, Coles actually only been at the tower for a year, since Cole had no idea how long he's been there and Rhys has only known him for that year. So his weakening feeling could have been a years worth being in the physical realms taking it's toll on him.

 

All theory crafting here, but it's been bothering me for a bit why Rhys wouldn't know the Ghost of the Spire tales having grown up in the tower for 40 some years. 

 

Cole may have been unconsciously making people forget him, but he had to focus a ridiculous amount to get it to the point where he could kill a person without them realizing it, so the idea of Cole controlling Rhys to that levels makes zero sense. Not when Cole was using his magic to mask Rhys, Rhys felt it and knew it was being done on him. Not when Cole has such little control of himself. Not when the idea of Rhys being controlled to stab someone really difficult for Rhys to do when the circle was on lockdown after Kirkwall, stabbing a person up close would leave blood on his robes and a dagger that is never shown in Rhys hands until the very end of the book. If Cole was there to clean up the mess, then it wouldn't be unconscious levels.

 

Why would Gaider write the book through Coles point of view if it's completely unreliable? Gider never struck me as a writer who would have the 'he was dead the whole time and everything around him was a lie' twist, certainly when there's no breadcrumbs for the reader to come to that conclusion.