51 réponses à ce sujet

[Terca]

Assuming that ME Next has a class system similar to the ones in all the other ME games there will be an infiltrator class and there will be tactical cloak. It's a great power... Some might call if overpowered (me) because of its ability for you to drag as heavy of weaponry as you want onto the field and use them as if you have a regular gun thanks to that nice 3 second cooldown. Damage buffs on top of that make it a superb power which makes all the classes more than viable, and at times better than the rest.

 

I'm of the opinion though that Tactical Cloak should not be as powerful as it has been in ME3, especially in the case of the rather huge buffs with the specific bonuses a la AIU and TGI which make a normal bonus into an insane one. I would wish that in the next game that they pair something else with Tac cloak.

 

Now as it is for making revives etc. easier it's actually pretty nice, allowing you to revive or get the first chunk of a device under way before you start pulling some aggro, so tactical cloak on its own makes a pretty great support power. While I think that a weapon bonus of 20% would be fine if it were an option at a later fork in the tree, it would also be pretty decent if they had other passives to it such as increasing movement speed or allowing health regen on activation as opposed to cutting it off.

 

Finally, for the powers thing, if you use a power it will always default to the longer time. So if you cloak and then use a power that has a time of seconds it will default to the tactical cloak CD. If you use a power that has a 5 second CD then it will default to that over the one for tactical cloak. In the case of the free power evo you would default to the lower of the two regardless once tactical cloak breaks. So if you use warp and then shoot the CD is initiated when tactical cloak breaks because of shots fired, and powers themselves are locked during the interim between power and cloak-breaking (similarly to how Marksman and Adrenaline Rush lock powers).

 

Anyways, that was longwinded.

 

tl;dr: OP cloak makes winfiltrators. I think it should be more of a support thing as it is OP right now. What would you do to nerf it or do you think it is fine as-is?

[TheNightSlasher]

Reduce damage boost heavily, no usage of powers while cloaked unless specced into bonus power evo, recharge speed should be independent of how long you stay cloaked.

Make the 'invisibility' actually work. Once you move away from the position where you cloaked, enemies shouldn't shoot you unless you are extremely close to them.

[didacuscarr]

I'd only balance the GI cloak to give him OVER 9000% damage boost for the entire game, while beeing able to spam PM like if it were an infinite grenade etc. etc.

[Ribosome]

I would chew it up and spit it back out. 

[chcknwng]

No weapon damage boost, but enemy won't be able to hear/see through cloak.

Maybe melee damage.

[K_O_513]

I'd make it work correctly off-host. That's the only problem with it at the moment.

[me0120]

1 - Gain invisibility from enemies. Cloak breaks once weapons or powers are used. (No base damage bonus)

 

2 - Increase recharge speed by 15%.

 

3 - Increase duration by 30%.

 

4 - a) Increase melee damage by 100%. b ) Increase duration by 40%

 

5 - a) Increase recharge speed by 10%. b ) Gain the ability to see through obstacles up to 15m for the duration of Tactical Cloak.

 

6 - a) Assassinate: Increase next weapon shot by 200%. b ) Power Precision: Increase next power by 100%.

 

 

Something like that with all bonuses additive. 

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

^ Assassinate + Javelin. Proceed to lol at all the things, even with the regular 80% bonus removed.

[me0120]

^ Assassinate + Javelin. Proceed to lol at all the things, even with the regular 80% bonus removed.

 

Javelin X GI would do almost exactly 700 more damage without ammo bonus or proxy mine. It would actually help other infiltrators more than the GI because of less stacking multiplicative bonuses. Shield gate on bosses would still absorb a lot of the remaining damage and mooks would be osk anyway. It would be far more balanced than 3 shot Raiders, Hurricane, Harrier, PPR, etc. IMO. Especially if you have to pick between power or weapon bonuses.

[MGW7]

make other powers for infiltrators, seriously, why do we need the same power on 1/6 of the characters just because they are such and such a class,

 

I would have more variety of infiltrators, ones who use traps, ones who do assassination, ones that avoid fire and sneak about, and ones who hack and command, no all with the same cloak ability

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

Javelin X GI would do almost exactly 700 more damage without ammo bonus or proxy mine. It would actually help other infiltrators more than the GI because of less stacking multiplicative bonuses. Shield gate on bosses would still absorb a lot of the remaining damage and mooks would be osk anyway. It would be far more balanced than 3 shot Raiders, Hurricane, Harrier, PPR, etc. IMO. Especially if you have to pick between power or weapon bonuses.

 

True, but I don't remember mentioning the GI If we're singling out classes, this setup would benefit something like the Drell Assassin more.

 

In all seriousness, your idea is probably the best. Rank 5 seems like a no-brainer, but I'm guessing you made the recharge speed flat instead of proportional to the time spent in it.

[Kislitsin]

Just don't give debuffs and crowd control to the winfiltrators. Also, iinfiltrata, no shields 4 u!

[robarcool]

Beat the dead horse!

[RustyBuckets02]

Quickest fix, keep the damage bonus as is, but you only get it if it's a headshot, or you're shooting an enemy in the back.

[d_nought]

Yeah, Assassination seems like the way to go. Sustained deeps is for soldiers.

[ArcaptSSX]

(...)

Now as it is for making revives etc. easier it's actually pretty nice, allowing you to revive or get the first chunk of a device under way before you start pulling some aggro, so tactical cloak on its own makes a pretty great support power. While I think that a weapon bonus of 20% would be fine if it were an option at a later fork in the tree, it would also be pretty decent if they had other passives to it such as increasing movement speed or allowing health regen on activation as opposed to cutting it off.

 

Finally, for the powers thing, if you use a power it will always default to the longer time. So if you cloak and then use a power that has a time of seconds it will default to the tactical cloak CD. If you use a power that has a 5 second CD then it will default to that over the one for tactical cloak. In the case of the free power evo you would default to the lower of the two regardless once tactical cloak breaks. So if you use warp and then shoot the CD is initiated when tactical cloak breaks because of shots fired, and powers themselves are locked during the interim between power and cloak-breaking (similarly to how Marksman and Adrenaline Rush lock powers).

 

Anyways, that was longwinded.

 

tl;dr: OP cloak makes winfiltrators. I think it should be more of a support thing as it is OP right now. What would you do to nerf it or do you think it is fine as-is?

 

With how i see things, TC is actually giving cause to making revives and possibly lowering squadmates' dps: when you land in a game with 2-3 Infiltrators, they just dump their aggro on you all the time, and you get assaulted from every corner. Even with a resilient kit that means you have to retreat all the time, shrinking or even eliminating entirely your dps sequence possibilities. It's not fun, especially with a kit that's not apt at crowd control.

 

So when we're talking about Infiltrators' dps it's somewhat relative in the end, since that dps boost gets sort of gets 'paid' by lowering your squadmates own, whether in making them die or 'paralyzing' their own actions.

 

Considering that, i believe the main problem with TC is how its timer is canceled , in the same fashion as Flamer, when TC doesn't run it's full course. The most obvious solution i'd see would be to, in succcession:

 

1. Respect whichever timer it has with or without cancel

2. Add the cancelling power's own timer to the overall cooldown (TC's+ used power's CD)

3. increase TC's timer and/or lower base weight capabilities of Infiltrators

4. Depending on point 3): maybe even increase the damage boost available with TC to balance it (that 'assassination' idea looks good)

5. Possibly have TC eating through shields depending on TC's duration.

(6. Change enemy behaviour so that they don't all target the same player at the same time. Maybe get in cover, or search local area after target TC's rather than switching automatically)

 

The global purpose would be to have a less frequent but very sensible damage boost. Something "exceptional", fitting into mostly non-TC gameplay rather than the bread and butter TC version we have now. Something used like once every 20~30 seconds.

[Marksmad is waving goodbye]

 

4 - a) Increase melee damage by 100%. b ) Increase duration by 40%

 

 

And add a Krogan Warlord Infiltrator in the first DLC.

[me0120]

True, but I don't remember mentioning the GI If we're singling out classes, this setup would benefit something like the Drell Assassin more.

 

In all seriousness, your idea is probably the best. Rank 5 seems like a no-brainer, but I'm guessing you made the recharge speed flat instead of proportional to the time spent in it.

 

Sorry if it seemed like I insinuated you mentioned the GI. I just wanted to use the current highest damage GI user to compare (no one takes fitness tank 6a on the Drell for sniping ).

 

Quickest fix, keep the damage bonus as is, but you only get it if it's a headshot, or you're shooting an enemy in the back.

 

The back doesn't work. The game recognizes all shots as either body, head, or destructible as far as I know. 

[hostaman]

Remove damage bonus and make it just a tactical power.

 

To give the full power tree could add in:

 

• Ability to use one power while cloaked (already a setting in most Infils)
• Ability to fire for x seconds while cloaked
• Ability to see through walls while cloaked
• Full invisibility while cloaked (even near enemies can't see you)
• Shield regen while cloaked

[Ryuji2]

Revert it to ME2's cooldown. Goes on cooldown and won't start recharging until you break cloak. So you can't use a power while in cloak unless you get the power evo to do so, and even still it will have the standard cooldown, like 5 seconds. Make it have a longer standard cooldown for heavier weapons to slightly punish it, though lower the cooldown back to 5 sec if you wanna use powers before breaking it, though if you shoot instead of using a power, make the cooldown longer. No lingering cloak damage bonus beyond the power or shot used. Have to decide what beefed up thing you wanna use. Still effective but not the best thing to do all the time.

 

As an addition to those changes, make it to where you can't be shot at, at all, like ME2. Stuff just ignores you completely even if you cloak right in front of them. If you're the only one alive, they'll still move to where you last cloaked, but won't shoot until you decloak. Can throw grenades or bees or other stuff though.

[Chealec]

Had to check the date on this one - I thought it was a massive necro for a moment. I'm guessing you never played before TC was rebalanced?

 

Since we don't even know when ME4 is going to be set, it could be a prequel set before cloaking technology is even available, let alone whether the game will have a multiplayer component (or if it does, how it will work - it could all be spaceship combat for all we know) - I think speculating on game mechanics is a little premature.

[BridgeBurner]

I'd make it work correctly off-host. That's the only problem with it at the moment.

 

Ummm, wat?

 

Cloak works exactly as it is intended, on or off-host.

[HusarX]

I would fukken buff it. I'm tired of being shot by Collector Captains , Geth Turrrets  while I'm being in cloak and reviving someone. The same goes for running past Phantoms (while being in cloak ofc) and getting synced...

[Ashevajak]

Much lower damage bonuses overall (maybe 25% with the 4b damage evolution), except for sniper rifles and flanking attacks, which would be more comparable to the current damage output. 

 

Fixed cooldown.  Powers used in tac-cloak have a seperate cooldown from TC itself.  Using a power immediately de-cloaks you and you don't get a damage bonus unless you take the bonus power evolution in TC. 

 

Shields are prevented from regenerating in cloak, regardless of other powers or abilities.

 

I'd also like an option for a silencer effect with weapons, like the M-11 Suppressor has (no aggro) with attacks from cloak, but that may be overpowered or work better as a weapon mod. 

 

The way I see it, an infiltrator (which was my favourite class well before ME3) should be about, well, sneakiness.  Getting in the right position to do maximum damage, hitting the enemy from unexpected angles and hit-and-run style guerrilla tactics.  So, with TC being the signature power for said class should emphasize that aspect, rather than give flat damage boosts, and there should be a trade-off between damage and duration that is actually meaningful. 

[Excella Gionne]

I would rebalance that Cloak with Kasumi's 130% damage bonus that applies to all weapons!