170 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

So you're saying Cerberus would have captured it at the Crucible? Right.

Had they shared it sooner, Cerberus would not have gotten hold of it. The only reason they did was because Thessia was already under attack - they wouldn't have been able to simply send a cruiser to a planet which was bracing for an invasion, march in there and take it. If Cerberus never got hold of it because it was relocated to aid the Crucible project, then the battle for Earth and all casualties incurred therein would never have happened - the Crucible would have been deployed while the Citadel was still located in the Serpent Nebula.

 

Cerberus discovered the existence of the Thessia beacon at the Mars Archives. The Illusive Man gloats about it. They only needed Shepard to activate it so they could steal the information. They were waiting for that to happen. If Shepard had been given the information about the beacon sooner it would have been taken from Shepard sooner. That's the nature of the plot. I'm sorry, but it's an obstacle that's thrown in the way of the protagonist. The only difference is that we may have seen Shepard saying "I'm sorry, we didn't get the information from the artifact. Cerberus was there waiting for us. Now we have to find a way of getting it back." instead of moping about losing Thessia. 

[Sir DeLoria]

No, they only created Cerberus as a black ops organization. 
That they couldn't control, and then went rogue.

The Asari clearly couldn't control Benezia and her commando units.

I'm not actually trying to blame the rogue commandos on the Asari as a whole, I'm just trying to show that this kind of argument is stupid. You can't blame a rogue unit or organization on an entire species.

[SporkFu]

Cerberus discovered the existence of the Thessia beacon at the Mars Archives. The Illusive Man gloats about it. They only needed Shepard to activate it so they could steal the information. They were waiting for that to happen. If Shepard had been given the information about the beacon sooner it would have been taken from Shepard sooner. That's the nature of the plot. I'm sorry, but it's an obstacle that's thrown in the way of the protagonist. The only difference is that we may have seen Shepard saying "I'm sorry, we didn't get the information from the artifact. Cerberus was there waiting for us. Now we have to find a way of getting it back." instead of moping about losing Thessia. 

That actually would have been kinda awesome if it happened earlier in the game. it could have given more meaning to all the cerberus appearances in the game. Like, what the hell were they doing on Tuchanka anyway, besides throwing a monkey-wrench into things... err, anyway, I'm digressing. If Thessia had happened say before the citadel coup, then the coup could have had a better reason for happening. Like, what if the position of the two missions in-game had flip-flopped. 

[ImaginaryMatter]

The idea that these lights are hidden prothean beacons...I really don't get it. You don't see green glow every other beacon in the series has. And there are also lights of identical design on the walls above the floor...and nobody comments on them, or suggests to check them out (before or after Kai Leng steals Vendetta). And wouldn't it be kinda risky for the asari goverment to have prothean beacons in plain sight? I mean, they built a statue around the beacon we know about...

 

It's because they look like Prothean architecture.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

The Asari clearly couldn't control Benezia and her commando units.

I'm not actually trying to blame the rogue commandos on the Asari as a whole, I'm just trying to show that this kind of argument is stupid. You can't blame a rogue unit or organization on an entire species.

There's a difference when a random person goes on a rampage, than when a black-ops group is started by your intelligence/military complex does so. (Game Canon>Mac Walters books)

You're the one blaming the actions of the highest ranking members on the whole species, or is that someone else? Someone is. 

[Sir DeLoria]

There's a difference when a random person goes on a rampage, than when a black-ops group is started by your intelligence/military complex does so. (Game Canon>Mac Walters books)
You're the one blaming the actions of the highest ranking members on the whole species, or is that someone else? Someone is.

No I'm not, I clearly said that i blamed only the Asari government for withholding Prothean tech and my last post was just a counter example to yours.

If that "random person" however is one of the most high ranking matriarchs and is in command of multiple units of Asari commandos, you have a very similar situation. Even if the scale if different, the principle is the same.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

At least I'm consistent. I'm not holding the entire Asari people, nor the entire Asari government accountable for this problem since they may not be. It's just like the entire Quarian race can't be held accountable for the actions of Admiral Gerrel. You can also blame the humans as well with most of the admiralty sitting with their fingers up their asses and keeping Shepard in lockup for six months doing absolutely nothing -- thank you Anderson for capturing Shepard (in the Foundation comics) -- like Shepard is going to cooperate now. Then you can also blame the Turians, and the Salarians. There's plenty of blame to go around. I think the only ones you can't blame are the Elcor and the Drell.

[AlexMBrennan]

Why is it that the Asari didn't do something about the Reaper threat if they knew about it this whole entire trilogy? I mean they had the Prothean Beacon holding Vendetta that told our shepard an the illusive man exactly what the catalyst is.

Right, obviously a prothean AI that only appears when Shepard touches a specific spot in a temple could have been activated by any asari at any time as well.

 

The war would of been over sooner if the Asari

True, which is probably why half of BSN would love to see a slightly more hostile dialogue option when talking to the asari councillor afterwards. 

 

An don't tell me they didn't know how to activate the prothean beacon because we didn't know how to either.

We had a prothean or at least a human with the all this codex BS, which means that there are maybe less than five beings in the galaxy that could have activated it, and at best the asari could have accessed it when Saren/Shiala extracted the relevant information from the thorian.,, so we gain, 3 years at most so that's a couple of new cruisers maybe when we'd need about a extra thousand dreadnoughts. 

 

If I recall back on eden primes beacon getting close to the beacon would of sucked you up close an given you visions

Right, because obviously they'd install a gatekeeper AI to prevent access on a device which automatically broadcasts the contents of the device to anyone within a hundred miles. Also, you might remember that the visions Shepard gets from the beacon are useless unless combined with several other and utterly unique mac guffins (sure, maybe if the asari routinely had thorians and rachni queens and ancient matriachs meet up you might discover the contents by chance...)

Heck, what if our shepard didn't toss kaiden or Ashley out of the way an they received the visions but died on Virmire, would anyone be able to activate the beacon on thessia?

Yeah, we'd have been doomed if Commander Shepard had died... oh wait, that's exactly what happened in the first ten minutes of ME2. However, I do essentially agree that Shepard was merely the right man in the right place. 

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Right, obviously a prothean AI that only appears when Shepard touches a specific spot in a temple could have been activated by any asari at any time as well.

 

I got two reasons why Shepard was needed: Prothean Cypher.

 

Unless your name is Javik or Shepard, no one can see the points needed to activate the Beacon on Thessia.

[Terca]

And this, friends and less-than, is why I don't go on the story subforum.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

we'd need about a extra thousand dreadnoughts. 

 

Please tell me this is hyperbole. All we'd really need is the knowledge of how to shoot nuclear and/or antimatter warheads through mass accelerators. 

I'd say everyone is to blame for sheer stupidity. 

[DoomsdayDevice]

@OP: They had the beacon, but couldn't activate Vendetta because they didn't have the cypher, only Shepard does. And Javik, obviously.

[DoomsdayDevice]

How would Shiala know about the Prothean beacon on Thessia? It was top secret.

[Excella Gionne]

How would Shiala know about the Prothean beacon on Thessia? It was top secret.

She had her ways....I'm sure she has top level security clearance.....

[thehomeworld]

I got the impression while they knew they had a beacon there they couldn't access it in the same way Shep was accessing it. I actually hate how the beacon got retconned to be a oversized holo projector then the fact they were sitting on it. The game downplayed shep's prothean side alot.

[DeinonSlayer]

Cerberus discovered the existence of the Thessia beacon at the Mars Archives. The Illusive Man gloats about it. They only needed Shepard to activate it so they could steal the information. They were waiting for that to happen. If Shepard had been given the information about the beacon sooner it would have been taken from Shepard sooner. That's the nature of the plot. I'm sorry, but it's an obstacle that's thrown in the way of the protagonist. The only difference is that we may have seen Shepard saying "I'm sorry, we didn't get the information from the artifact. Cerberus was there waiting for us. Now we have to find a way of getting it back." instead of moping about losing Thessia. 

I'm sorry, but I don't think so. The only reason Cerberus was able to insert forces to capture the beacon at all was because the Asari were tied up dealing with the Reaper presence on their planet. If Shepard had been told before the Reapers hit Thessia, Cerberus would have had to contend with a planet which was on high alert, bunkered down in preparation for a coming invasion, instead of actively being torn apart by one and thus unable to mobilize a response.

[AlanC9]

Please tell me this is hyperbole. All we'd really need is the knowledge of how to shoot nuclear and/or antimatter warheads through mass accelerators. 

I'd say everyone is to blame for sheer stupidity.

If techs like that actually worked in the MEU, wouldn't the Reapers have organized themselves accordingly? Since the Reapers are space battleships rather than, say, space carriers, space battleships work.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

If techs like that actually worked in the MEU, wouldn't the Reapers have organized themselves accordingly? Since the Reapers are space battleships rather than, say, space carriers, space battleships work.

Actually worked? Given the parameters present it absolutely should work. KBs only defend against things with mass traveling at fast speeds, so the heat should be able to melt through the Reaper, given that heat given off is as hot as the the surface of the sun. One kg of Antimatter reacting with one kg of matter results in an energy output equivalent to a 43 megaton bomb, or 2150 Hiroshima nukes. The Reapers would be toast. 

Also, they both work, but with carriers, the fighters need to saturate and burn out the point-defense laser system used. 

[fhs33721]

Actually worked? Given the parameters present it absolutely should work. KBs only defend against things with mass traveling at fast speeds, so the heat should be able to melt through the Reaper, given that heat given off is as hot as the the surface of the sun. One kg of Antimatter reacting with one kg of matter results in an energy output equivalent to a 43 megaton bomb, or 2150 Hiroshima nukes. The Reapers would be toast. 

Also, they both work, but with carriers, the fighters need to saturate and burn out the point-defense laser system used. 

 

On the extremely slight chance that this would actually work:

Good job, now you can enjoy radioactive debris raining down on earth and making it an uninhabitable wasteland.  Seriously stop trying to solve ervery problem by shooting nukes at it. Neither fictional settings nor reality work like that.

They nuked everything and sh*t exploded and all the bad guys died makes for a horrible plot. Even michel bay throws in some robot fights before the explosions.

 

Can we go back on topic now. We were talking about Asari and Prothean plot devices... ähm I mean beacons:

Obviously the Asari government are a bunch of dumb  jerks. Just like every other govermnent in the MEU. So get over your childish Asari-hate and do the only right thing: Hate everybody equally. Because that is what true tolerane is about.

Just kidding.

 

But honestly would you want to play a game, where everybody was peacefully cooperating to defeat the Reapers? A game where everyone was actaully totally competent and there was no need for the player to solve any problems at all?

Something like this?

 

Hackett: "Hey Shepard good news. With the help of the Asari archive they told us about after Sovereigns attack we managed to build a weapon to destroy the Reapers as soon as they arrive. By the way Commander you never filled out all the paperwork from back when you were hunting Saren. Do that now or you are fired!"

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

On the extremely slight chance that this would actually work:

Good job, now you can enjoy radioactive debris raining down on earth and making it an uninhabitable wasteland.  Seriously stop trying to solve ervery problem by shooting nukes at it. Neither fictional settings nor reality work like that.

They nuked everything and sh*t exploded and all the bad guys died makes for a horrible plot. Even michel bay throws in some robot fights before the explosions.

 

Can we go back on topic now. We were talking about Asari and Prothean plot devices... ähm I mean beacons:

Obviously the Asari government are a bunch of dumb  jerks. Just like every other govermnent in the MEU. So get over your childish Asari-hate and do the only right thing: Hate everybody equally. Because that is what true tolerane is about.

Just kidding.

 

But honestly would you want to play a game, where everybody was peacefully cooperating to defeat the Reapers? A game where everyone was actaully totally competent and there was no need for the player to solve any problems at all?

Something like this?

 

Hackett: "Hey Shepard good news. With the help of the Asari archive they told us about after Sovereigns attack we managed to build a weapon to destroy the Reapers as soon as they arrive. By the way Commander you never filled out all the paperwork from back when you were hunting Saren. Do that now or you are fired!"

Extremely slight? It would. There is no reason it wouldn't. 

Assuming that A there would be radioactive debris from it, B it would somehow get into the atmosphere, and C the debris burning up in atmosphere would leave any sort of damaging residue, so what? It isn't that hard to clean up and is a far better alternative to the genocide of the Geth and much more logical than throwing every thing you have into an ancient, unknown superweapon, that turns out, is able to scorch the entire surface of the planet. 

Space combat over hundreds of thousands of miles with two-kilometer long sentient warships trying to kill every last one of you does in fact work that way. 

And to tie in with the rest, it would make for a realistic and logical plot, but maybe not a good one. 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I'm sorry, but I don't think so. The only reason Cerberus was able to insert forces to capture the beacon at all was because the Asari were tied up dealing with the Reaper presence on their planet. If Shepard had been told before the Reapers hit Thessia, Cerberus would have had to contend with a planet which was on high alert, bunkered down in preparation for a coming invasion, instead of actively being torn apart by one and thus unable to mobilize a response.

 

Trust me there would have been a plot reason for the antagonist (Cerberus now Derperus) to take it from Shepard. I know this is going to sound like our friend Bob, but that's the way stories are written. Conflict. Without conflict there is no story. The writer's job is to obstruct the protagonist. Shepard was destined to lose the information anyway. Shepard just would have been b**ching about losing the information to Cerberus, not losing Thessia.

 

And who says they wouldn't have been able to infiltrate? There was Rana Thanoptis. an indoctrinated agent, or other indoctrinated Asari that Cerberus might have been able to turn.

[DeinonSlayer]

Trust me there would have been a plot reason for the antagonist (Cerberus now Derperus) to take it from Shepard. I know this is going to sound like our friend Bob, but that's the way stories are written. Conflict. Without conflict there is no story. The writer's job is to obstruct the protagonist. Shepard was destined to lose the information anyway. Shepard just would have been b**ching about losing the information to Cerberus, not losing Thessia.

 

And who says they wouldn't have been able to infiltrate? There was Rana Thanoptis. an indoctrinated agent, or other indoctrinated Asari that Cerberus might have been able to turn.

I'm approaching this from a no-meta perspective. Those are the facts on the ground.

 

Even with a well-placed mole, they'd still have the entire Asari fleet to get through on the way back out. Good luck with that.

 

Unless...

 

 

"Target the Reapers. Target the Reapers! Someone FIRE!!!"

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

I'm approaching this from a no-meta perspective. Those are the facts on the ground.

 

Even with a well-placed mole, they'd still have the entire Asari fleet to get through on the way back out. Good luck with that.

 

Ah, but you see, Cerberus has "reaper tech." What can the combined Asari fleets do against that?